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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.15 18:59:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Wang Jing on 15/04/2009 19:01:12
With all other T2 ships (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong) inheriting both bonuses from their T1 counterparts, its only right that Assault Ships get this too.
The case where this is, in my experience, sorely needed, is the Wolf and the Jaguar, which bizarrely do not have the tracking bonus of the rifter. Given the minmatar are supposed to rely on high speed and outmanouevre their opponents, its rather embarrassing to be unable reliably to hit another frig whilst in a tight orbit.
The other racial ships I havent flown, although I dont believe adding 5% resists to the Amarr and the Caldari ships would make them overpowered. The falloff bonus for Gallente, coupled with the existing optimal bonus, stands out as being the most potentially overpowering.
I would sincerely like to hear some opinions on this, especially if i'm wrong, i'd like to know if theres something i've missed.
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Krennel Darius
Caldari
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:25:00 -
[2]
/signed.
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If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris |
Letifer Deus
181st Legion
Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.04.15 21:47:00 -
[3]
few things:
neither venge nor reti would likely get a resistance bonus. venge has one already and reti would be better served with something weapon oriented.
ishkur would definitely NOT get falloff bonus, but instead +10% drone HP per level. enyo would get a 2nd damage bonus.
hawk already has rep amount bonus so I doubt it will get a resistance bonus. res bonus on harpy makes sense though.
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
puckohontas
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Posted - 2009.04.15 22:02:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Letifer Deus
few things:
neither venge nor reti would likely get a resistance bonus. venge has one already and reti would be better served with something weapon oriented.
ishkur would definitely NOT get falloff bonus, but instead +10% drone HP per level. enyo would get a 2nd damage bonus.
hawk already has rep amount bonus so I doubt it will get a resistance bonus. res bonus on harpy makes sense though.
the harpy had resistence bonus but they took it off for some reason, well it got 70heat and 80kin base resists so aint too bad
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Fistme
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Posted - 2009.04.15 22:18:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
enyo would get a 2nd damage bonus.
/Drools
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Rodamus Zero
Gallente
Clans of the Sanctums
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Posted - 2009.04.16 02:45:00 -
[6]
There was word that AFs would recieve a web "resistance" bonus, but seeing as the web nerf, along with the speed and agility changes made to AFs means that AFs really dont need such an elaberate bonus, also, it was said by a Dev that having such a mechanic is currently technologically impossible with the current code/engine.
While it was mentioned in the patch notes that only the Jaguar would be getting its resistance bonus removed, all the AFs had the same impact upon them, I must admit, I really am going to miss my 92% kinetic armor resistance I had on my Enyo.
Needless to say though, being a T2 ship while missing one of its Teir1/Tech1 bonuses is outright daft, no other T2 ship has only one teir/tech 1 bonus (Or its just a double bonus in its place).
While I would like to see the old bonus re-applied, its odd to think that they all received only Kinetic and Thermal resistances to both shields and armor.
I would like to see these ships get its teir/tech 1 bonus back, even if it is differnt. Being an assault ship by nature should surely suggest that it needs either a damage or a tanking bonus though an off the wall bonus would be interesting to.
I will have to say though, the Harpy is the only Caldari gunboat that doesnt follow the trend of the rest with a 5% shield resistance bonus (Merlin, Moa, Ferox, Rohk and thier respective T2 versions) so in trend style, needs to have the Merlins bonuses applied over, then its bonuses truley reflect its description "The Harpy is a powerful railgun platform with long range capability and strong defensive systems."
The Hawk is an odd ball for its description, it implies the use of turrets and yet recieves no bonus, powerful shields it may have thanks to the boost bonus so a turret damage bonus anyone? (I have no idea if I am joking there either... They are giving it to the Falcon of all things...)
The Wolf, being from Boundless Creations warfare ideology of GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS may suit a tracking bonus over "just more damage".
Jaguar might as well have a launcher bonus, the term "Versatily" is a stain upon Minmatar and simply means "Mixed weapons platform" To be honest, I cant think of anything else that would suit it other than a cap efficency tanking bonus or cap recharge bonus. Rate of Fire bonus to rockets/light missiles, or a mwd/ab cap bonus seeing as it implies at being the fastest AF around.
Vengeance, damn it... just give it another 5% damage bonus to rockets... while your at it, give another 5% to the Malediction to...
While I may not fly Amarr turret ships, I simply can not ignore the Retibution. Carthum says its a mix of offense and defense, well, I only see offensive bonues and an expensive frigate with a little more resistance and hp for good measure. Resistance bonues goes to the Vengeance, so its left with armor amount or an active tank bonus, with 5 lows, it better have something worthwhile.
Im just gonna throw a falloff bonus from the Incursus to the Enyo, better yet, give all blueprints and rights to Duvolle Labs and make it into a dedicated blasterboat, Being a Roden Shipyards vessel, it might as well be given a Warp Jamming Propulsion cap bonus, in its description, it does say its an ideal point ship, suddenly that second mid slot looks rather nice for a disruptor! or the famous 7.5% armor repair bonus?
The Ishkur can go self destruct, No, I jest... but seriously, a drone frigate boat... Drone HP/Damage bonus would be far too much... Drone velocity, maybe worth a shot, more bandwidth, NO (Who remembers 5 T2 Hammerheads? I sure do ^^ I miss them so, BUT NO) Perhaps just a HP bonus to drones? or 5% instead of 10% to hp/damage? Any drone related bonus would do really...
What are other peoples thoughts upon this? I have a feeling im going to get a flaming for the Jaguar ideas... but hey, whats wrong with a little constructive dialogue?
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Tell Them, Zero was Here. |
Aethrwolf
Caldari
Home for Wayward Gamers
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Posted - 2009.04.16 03:29:00 -
[7]
makes sense.. /signed
Absolutely everything is subjective. |
CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Eternum Pariah
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Posted - 2009.04.16 03:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
few things:
neither venge nor reti would likely get a resistance bonus. venge has one already and reti would be better served with something weapon oriented.
ishkur would definitely NOT get falloff bonus, but instead +10% drone HP per level. enyo would get a 2nd damage bonus.
hawk already has rep amount bonus so I doubt it will get a resistance bonus. res bonus on harpy makes sense though.
i would love resistance bonus on my venge, 25% then 25% on top of it's t2 resist :P haha, would be like two free adeptive XD
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Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.04.16 06:28:00 -
[9]
There were talks about giving the assualt frigate resilance to warfares but that got shelved when they nerfed webbers. They may revisit this and add it to the assault frigates, making them harder to disable which can fit well with its mantra.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 6Apr09 |
Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.16 09:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rodamus Zero
The Wolf, being from Boundless Creations warfare ideology of GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS may suit a tracking bonus over "just more damage".
Jaguar might as well have a launcher bonus, the term "Versatily" is a stain upon Minmatar and simply means "Mixed weapons platform" To be honest, I cant think of anything else that would suit it other than a cap efficency tanking bonus or cap recharge bonus. Rate of Fire bonus to rockets/light missiles, or a mwd/ab cap bonus seeing as it implies at being the fastest AF around.
What are other peoples thoughts upon this? I have a feeling im going to get a flaming for the Jaguar ideas... but hey, whats wrong with a little constructive dialogue?
I wholeheartedly agree with all of this apart from.... wait for it... yep you guessed it; please dont gimp my beloved jag with a launcher bonus. Both the wolf and the jag really need the tracking bonus from the rifter. At the moment if you want to take on another afterburning frigate up close you're better off with a rifter if you want to actually hit them 
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Kage Bunshin
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Posted - 2009.04.16 10:16:00 -
[11]
I prefer an afterburner speed bonus on assault frigs, 10% per level i think but 5 will also be good 
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Teth Soress
Minmatar
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2009.04.16 10:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Wang Jing
I wholeheartedly agree with everything in your post apart from.... wait for it... yep you guessed it; please dont gimp my beloved jag with a launcher bonus. Both the wolf and the jag really need the tracking bonus from the rifter. If you give the tracking to only one of them, all people who want to use autocannons will be forced to use it rather than the other. Also if you want to active tank a jag you'll probably want/need that utility high for a nos.
Yeah not giving the tracking bonus to the FASTER frig would be beyond stupid. They both need it and it's actually kind of a disappointment after the tight orbits of a rifter to not be able to do them in a Jaguar. It's just downright dumb that they don't have it.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.16 10:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
few things:
neither venge nor reti would likely get a resistance bonus. venge has one already and reti would be better served with something weapon oriented.
ishkur would definitely NOT get falloff bonus, but instead +10% drone HP per level. enyo would get a 2nd damage bonus.
hawk already has rep amount bonus so I doubt it will get a resistance bonus. res bonus on harpy makes sense though.
Hawk needs a Kestrel style damage bonus in the worst way.
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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.16 11:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kage Bunshin
I prefer an afterburner speed bonus on assault frigs, 10% per level i think but 5 will also be good
Good idea, but very little point for the wolf/jag until they get their delicious rifter tracking bonus, going a bit faster will just make things worse 
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Rodamus Zero
Gallente
Clans of the Sanctums
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Posted - 2009.04.16 13:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wang Jing
Edited by: Wang Jing on 16/04/2009 09:37:49
Edited by: Wang Jing on 16/04/2009 09:30:26
Edited by: Wang Jing on 16/04/2009 09:23:40
Originally by: Rodamus Zero
The Wolf, being from Boundless Creations warfare ideology of GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS may suit a tracking bonus over "just more damage".
Jaguar might as well have a launcher bonus, the term "Versatily" is a stain upon Minmatar and simply means "Mixed weapons platform" To be honest, I cant think of anything else that would suit it other than a cap efficency tanking bonus or cap recharge bonus. Rate of Fire bonus to rockets/light missiles, or a mwd/ab cap bonus seeing as it implies at being the fastest AF around.
What are other peoples thoughts upon this? I have a feeling im going to get a flaming for the Jaguar ideas... but hey, whats wrong with a little constructive dialogue?
I wholeheartedly agree with everything in your post apart from.... wait for it... yep you guessed it; please dont gimp my beloved jag with a launcher bonus. Both the wolf and the jag really need the tracking bonus from the rifter. If you give the tracking to only one of them, all people who want to use autocannons will be forced to use it rather than the other. Also if you want to active tank a jag you'll probably want/need that utility high for a nos.
Giving a Tracking bonus to both the Jaguar and the Wolf would just mean little to no diversity between the two vessels, seeing as the Boundless Wolf deserves it more than the Thukkers Jaguar, it stands to reason that it needs something else, putting the tracking and speed bonuses aside, it requires something that the Wolf shouldnt have nor needs.
Shield Boost amount bonus?
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Tell Them, Zero was Here. |
Sturdy Girl
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Posted - 2009.04.16 13:16:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Sturdy Girl on 16/04/2009 13:16:10
whoops
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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.16 13:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Rodamus Zero
Originally by: Wang Jing
Edited by: Wang Jing on 16/04/2009 09:37:49
Edited by: Wang Jing on 16/04/2009 09:30:26
Edited by: Wang Jing on 16/04/2009 09:23:40
Originally by: Rodamus Zero
The Wolf, being from Boundless Creations warfare ideology of GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS may suit a tracking bonus over "just more damage".
Jaguar might as well have a launcher bonus, the term "Versatily" is a stain upon Minmatar and simply means "Mixed weapons platform" To be honest, I cant think of anything else that would suit it other than a cap efficency tanking bonus or cap recharge bonus. Rate of Fire bonus to rockets/light missiles, or a mwd/ab cap bonus seeing as it implies at being the fastest AF around.
What are other peoples thoughts upon this? I have a feeling im going to get a flaming for the Jaguar ideas... but hey, whats wrong with a little constructive dialogue?
I wholeheartedly agree with everything in your post apart from.... wait for it... yep you guessed it; please dont gimp my beloved jag with a launcher bonus. Both the wolf and the jag really need the tracking bonus from the rifter. If you give the tracking to only one of them, all people who want to use autocannons will be forced to use it rather than the other. Also if you want to active tank a jag you'll probably want/need that utility high for a nos.
Giving a Tracking bonus to both the Jaguar and the Wolf would just mean little to no diversity between the two vessels, seeing as the Boundless Wolf deserves it more than the Thukkers Jaguar, it stands to reason that it needs something else, putting the tracking and speed bonuses aside, it requires something that the Wolf shouldnt have nor needs.
Shield Boost amount bonus?
Diversity is always good, but giving one the tracking bonus and the other not would leave them as the autocannon boat and... the other one. The ships are already strongly differentiated by their tanking and slot layouts, and I think giving only one the sorely needed tracking bonus would kill diversity in the way the ships are fitted.
I'd like to see their bonuses along the lines of 5% damage and 7.5% tracking per level of minmatar frigate, as per the rifter, then for assault ships 5% damage and either the original falloff/optimal bonus, or a new one, for example 5% speed for the jag.
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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.16 13:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sturdy Girl
Edited by: Sturdy Girl on 16/04/2009 13:19:34
Surely the Jag deserves the tracking bonus more than the Wolf; it moves a hell of a lot faster.
With an afterburner running they both move fast enough to need it. Imagine if the rifter didn't have a tracking bonus. Ridiculous, right?
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SemiCharmed
Brotherhood of DON
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Posted - 2009.04.16 18:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rodamus Zero
What are other peoples thoughts upon this? I have a feeling im going to get a flaming for the Jaguar ideas... but hey, whats wrong with a little constructive dialogue?
Yes, i did try and quote all of it but there were only like 30 chars left.
I agree with everything thats said here, but something did pop into my head, why not just remove them? :p then we can all kick back and be on the same page of "you remember that class of ship? Yeah it was awesome" and everyone can be friends.
hehe no i kidd i kid... kinda... but its not a bad thought :p
But yes, would be nice if the Dev's cvould look over your post rod, as those sujestions would make the class of ship interesting and allot of people more happy
But at the end of the day, just remove them lol
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Remember Kids, Only YOU Can Prevent Fourm fires. |
Doublemuff
The Drips
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Posted - 2009.04.17 08:38:00 -
[20]
/signed
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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.17 11:25:00 -
[21]
Thanks for the replies so far! Some great contributions.
If you guys feel strongly enough about this, why not post with it as one of your priorities in the new Dev Thread for balance priorities:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1051722&page=1
If not, I still haven't heard any arguements against giving them the 4th bonus, would be very interested to hear if there are any.
Cheers!
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Bogu D
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Posted - 2009.04.17 13:13:00 -
[22]
I agree that the AS could use there old 4th bonus. But... if you truly want to differentiate the 2 types for each race, why not give one of them some bonus to RR? Either a cap use reduction or rep amount bonus. That would really set the whole ship class apart from the rest.
keep it up |
Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.17 14:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Bogu D
I agree that the AS could use there old 4th bonus. But... if you truly want to differentiate the 2 types for each race, why not give one of them some bonus to RR? Either a cap use reduction or rep amount bonus. That would really set the whole ship class apart from the rest.
keep it up
Honestly I have to say I don't like this idea. AF's live and die more by their small sig than their tanking abilities; a remote repair AF gang just wouldnt happen for the same reason you dont see RR HAC gangs.
Several of the AF's really need a 4th bonus (wolf and jag tracking bonus, hawk and vengeance need a damage bonus to make them less spectiacularly fail), using it for something thats as niche an application and unlikely to be used as remote repping is a bad idea imho.
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Gibly
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.17 14:45:00 -
[24]
my idea for th iskur bonus is one of tw things. give them a cpu reduction for drone link augmentors. 50 cpu is a bit much for this ship and many sacrifices must be made to fit one of theese (guns are fair tradeoff .... but to have to trade active hardeners for passive ones is unacceptable in my opinion)
OR give it a drone control range bonus 5km per level I suppose. that way you could have even more range if you are willing to make theese sacrifices
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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.17 15:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gibly
OR give it a drone control range bonus 5km per level I suppose. that way you could have even more range if you are willing to make theese sacrifices
The latter idea sounds pretty cool and definitly suits the ship.
Let me try and sum up the ideas we've had so far for the 4th bonus, please jump on me if i'm getting this wrong 
Hawk and Vengeance: Give them a second damage bonus, or scrap the rockets altogether because they're awful.
Harpy: 5% shield resists per level, great suggestion, keeps it in line with all the caldari rail boats.
Wolf and Jaguar: 7.5% turret tracking per level, make them the uber rifters they deserve to be.
Retribution: Possibly a 7.5% bonus to armour repair amount per level (although the lol1midslot rule applies here).
Ishkur: A drone related bonus; either drone control range or drone hitpoints.
Enyo: A second damage bonus possibly a little over the top here, maybe the 7.5% repair amount again?
Keep it coming!
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