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Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2009.04.20 01:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lobster Man on 20/04/2009 01:38:11 I recently picked up a crystal delta and crystal alpha from a few friendly Dread Guristas spawns in 0.0. At the time of me picking up these 'plants, the alpha was going for about 110m on the market in jita, and the delta was going for about 400 (there were only about 6-7 sell orders for this particular implant). I waited a few days before I was able to safely move these from 0.0 down to jita for sale, and by the time I got down there with my booty, I was astonished at what the prices had done. The alphas were now going for around 86m, with stacks of up to 40 for sale on the market, and the delta had crashed to around 290m, with many, many more on the market now than when I had checked about 10 days earlier.
Is there some sort of large scale price-fixing going on here, or did the farmers just decide to dump their stocks of implants onto the market at around the same time I was looking to sell mine?
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Dragonz Fire
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.04.20 01:51:00 -
[2]
I have been following the implant market closely since November of last year. There are the people who rat and pick up implants (like you) and go sell them on the market in Jita. Then there are the implant traders who buy low, sell high in Jita, and there are the ones who set region wide buy orders, haul them to Jita and sell them. Those are the ordinary players.
Then there are these other players that I have found. They are on 23/7. And when I mean 23/7, I mean 23 hours a day, 7 days a week. The first guy went by the character name 'trademefaster.' He was EXTREMELY suspicious from the beginning. He had 60+++ billion isk of implants on the market in quantities of 20+ of each implant sometimes. He would have a sell order of 7 days, and would undercut you every 10-15 minutes (dropping his order by 1 isk instead of .01 isk) NO MATTER WHAT TIME OF DAY.
I have several theories. The first one is of course using a market bot. A second theory is that it isn't one person, but a company. A company that farms implants and sells them in Jita and sells the isk on the internet, or does whatever else with the isk. Maybe they don't sell the isk on ebay, but they definitely farm the implants. Either they farm the implants themselves or they use bots. However, if they are on at ALL times selling these implants on the market that means more than one person is using the character which breaks the EULA (I believe?). It may even be possible that it's a Chinese company that pays people 25 cents an hour to update the orders.
I petitioned 'trademefaster' and I haven't seen him since. HOWEVER, I have seen another character using the EXACT SAME TACTICS. The exact same race and character type and quantities, implants, sell order tactics, everything. So I am 99% sure that it is the same person/company, but a different account because the first one was banned (according to my theory). This char goes by the name of 'MiniPrincesa.' I reported the character, so I would like to see what happens next. If the person is banned then you will definitely see the implant price going back up.
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Nairova Intaku
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Posted - 2009.04.20 01:54:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nairova Intaku on 20/04/2009 01:55:21 oops ^_^
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Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2009.04.20 01:55:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dragonz Fire I have been following the implant market closely since November of last year. There are the people who rat and pick up implants (like you) and go sell them on the market in Jita. Then there are the implant traders who buy low, sell high in Jita, and there are the ones who set region wide buy orders, haul them to Jita and sell them. Those are the ordinary players.
Then there are these other players that I have found. They are on 23/7. And when I mean 23/7, I mean 23 hours a day, 7 days a week. The first guy went by the character name 'trademefaster.' He was EXTREMELY suspicious from the beginning. He had 60+++ billion isk of implants on the market in quantities of 20+ of each implant sometimes. He would have a sell order of 7 days, and would undercut you every 10-15 minutes (dropping his order by 1 isk instead of .01 isk) NO MATTER WHAT TIME OF DAY.
I have several theories. The first one is of course using a market bot. A second theory is that it isn't one person, but a company. A company that farms implants and sells them in Jita and sells the isk on the internet, or does whatever else with the isk. Maybe they don't sell the isk on ebay, but they definitely farm the implants. Either they farm the implants themselves or they use bots. However, if they are on at ALL times selling these implants on the market that means more than one person is using the character which breaks the EULA (I believe?). It may even be possible that it's a Chinese company that pays people 25 cents an hour to update the orders.
I petitioned 'trademefaster' and I haven't seen him since. HOWEVER, I have seen another character using the EXACT SAME TACTICS. The exact same race and character type and quantities, implants, sell order tactics, everything. So I am 99% sure that it is the same person/company, but a different account because the first one was banned (according to my theory). This char goes by the name of 'MiniPrincesa.' I reported the character, so I would like to see what happens next. If the person is banned then you will definitely see the implant price going back up.
This is very interesting, and I've noticed some shady business when it comes to the implants market in jita as well. I'm going to have to keep an eye out, and if I see someone with the name MiniPrincesa buying any of my implants, I may have to reach for my tinfoil had and then petition button.
Thanks for the info though
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.04.20 03:45:00 -
[5]
Keep in mind that hardcore marketspeculation is one of the fastest way of making ISK in the game. I know several people that make all of their money that way. They're not on 23/7, but they are online 18 hours per day on the days they make their money...and in those 18 hours they can make multiple billions by just buying and selling the right mods/implants/ships (preferably mods/implants as it's easier to ship if necessary). They do NOT however generally sell expensive stuff in large quantities. It's usually all about rare item speculation. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
dr doooo
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Posted - 2009.04.20 11:35:00 -
[6]
As far as I can work out this person/group have been around quite a while, and have used at least 2 or 3 more characters before trademefaster/miniprincesa. They only sell, rather than trade, and the volume is huge, especially in crystals(which is a clue as to who they are reselling for I guess). At times they must account for about 80% of all crystal sales (both on the market and to buy orders). They definitely use a bot, and occasionally they forget to set it up properly (search for the thread 'market bot confirmed' if your interested). When they have it set up properly though, it just hammers the market every 15 minutes a mere 20 or so hours a day, and I think it has a maximum price move, although it's been a long time since I messed with it (with the exception of when they forgot to set it up right with slaves last month)
I petitioned one of their characters a year+ or so ago. It was shortly after the guy hacked the EVE database, and was arranging hundreds of top quality npc drops for himself every day. I thought the GMs may have wanted a quick look at this character just in case, because of the huge volume of expensive stuff they were shifting. I don't know the outcome of course, but the character disappeared from the markets, and was replaced with a new one with the same MO a little bit later.
p.s. I was about to hit post, but thinking about it, I've got a feeling Trademefaster used to occasionally buy as well. I could well be wrong, but anyone else remember selling to him on the markets? The others definitely only sold, as far as I could see. If that was the case, it would suggest a group of people rather than an individual. Maybe a group of alliance directors who are too lazy to sell them manually, and too greedy to pay a reseller. (the volumes are often too big to just sell to buy orders).
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wowtard
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Posted - 2009.04.20 13:44:00 -
[7]
This is certainly shady. Assuming that these traders were selling on behalf of powerful players with better things to do with their time, I don't think they'd be happy to see their crystal alphas going for a mere 86 mil.
I don't think it's possible that these were bought up in other regional markets. Sure you see orders for crystal alphas at around 75 mil all over the place, but these are really almost never filled. There's just not enough volume to play the sit and wait game, only to resell at 10-20% profit.
I'm baffled.
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.20 14:15:00 -
[8]
Hmm, that's upsetting. But what upsets me even more is knowing that reporting those characters does nothing. If they set up a corp order then anyone in their corp can continue on where they started, even if that character is banned they would lose nothing. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Breaker77
Reclamation Industries New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.04.20 15:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dragonz Fire He would have a sell order of 7 days, and would undercut you every 10-15 minutes (dropping his order by 1 isk instead of .01 isk) NO MATTER WHAT TIME OF DAY.
Then use that to your advantage!!
Jita is not the only system in the game where people buy things
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Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.04.20 18:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dragonz Fire I petitioned 'trademefaster' and I haven't seen him since. HOWEVER, I have seen another character using the EXACT SAME TACTICS. The exact same race and character type and quantities, implants, sell order tactics, everything. So I am 99% sure that it is the same person/company, but a different account because the first one was banned (according to my theory). This char goes by the name of 'MiniPrincesa.' I reported the character, so I would like to see what happens next. If the person is banned then you will definitely see the implant price going back up.
No, they will just replace the character. Farmers were always part of pirate implant market and they will always be. Use it to your advantage, ever noticed those sinusoids on many implant price graphs?
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Dragonz Fire
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.04.20 19:44:00 -
[11]
Sometimes, if the buy order is high enough they (Miniprincesa and trademefaster) will sell the implants to the buyer.
It would be nice if CCP actually DID something about this to stop it. Ban IP addresses, stop bots from working, something along those lines.
It would be even better if CCP informed us about people/bots they banned, etc. It's like CCP is looking the other way. The lack of transparency is kind of frightening.
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searchi
tiberian suns
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Posted - 2009.04.20 20:15:00 -
[12]
bots, isk sellers and the other grey area people might make up 20 or more % of the paying accounts in eve. that might be a reason they arent too eager to stomp them out. in the long run it might hurt their business when regular players stay away because they just cant really compete economy wise with bots and sweatshops.but not yet.
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Dragonz Fire
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.04.20 20:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: searchi bots, isk sellers and the other grey area people might make up 20 or more % of the paying accounts in eve. that might be a reason they arent too eager to stomp them out. in the long run it might hurt their business when regular players stay away because they just cant really compete economy wise with bots and sweatshops.but not yet.
Knowing this just infuriates me. If this is true then CCP pretty much acknowledges that it is being unethical. In this case shouldn't top management be going to jail for this? isn't this fraud, or insider trading, or something?
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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.04.20 20:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dragonz Fire
Knowing this just infuriates me. If this is true then CCP pretty much acknowledges that it is being unethical. In this case shouldn't top management be going to jail for this? isn't this fraud, or insider trading, or something?
I'm sorry but what crime have they committed?
Selling a service to people who sell their service to others?
CCP does try but its a matter of how much resources they want to use to attack this. The best thing you can do it to make sure everyone you know that wants to buy ISK buys GTC and uses the CCP system. You really need to understand basic posting skills. |
Jotobar
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Posted - 2009.04.20 20:41:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jotobar on 20/04/2009 20:42:33 1. Implant traders in jita have to update every 5min for the entire period they got things on the market, I'm sure there's a nice mix of both bots and normal users doing it, if the bots would have monopoly I would feel it would be more upsetting but now instead it's just like every other high turn around item in jita, normal rough competition on beeing cheapest.
2. The original question of where they are comming from is more interesting but my guess is "small market gets a small boost from somewhere which brings big impact since turn-around is low and market isk war on implants is severe".
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Baanana Hammock
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Posted - 2009.04.23 22:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jotobar
2. The original question of where they are comming from is more interesting but my guess is "small market gets a small boost from somewhere which brings big impact since turn-around is low and market isk war on implants is severe".
That is the question indeed..... |
Cheeba Don
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.24 13:19:00 -
[17]
Hey Lobster Man o/
Long time no see.
you still hurting them farmers in Orfrold and lowsec metrop? I miss living there!
Best o/ ---------
oOk! |
Nairova Intaku
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Posted - 2009.04.28 01:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Nairova Intaku on 28/04/2009 01:50:17 á
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Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2009.04.28 01:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cheeba Don Hey Lobster Man o/
Long time no see.
you still hurting them farmers in Orfrold and lowsec metrop? I miss living there!
Best o/
Hey m8, long time indeed :)
I've been on a bit of a hiatus with my pvp just training skills mostly while I do commerce on my other account to make iskies
On a more serious note, it does indeed seem like MiniPrincesa is at implant market macrobot antics again...
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Bei Bao
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: searchi bots, isk sellers and the other grey area people might make up 20 or more % of the paying accounts in eve.
And on what excactly did you base that one?
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Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2009.04.28 08:15:00 -
[21]
I think I may have not only figured out vaguely how these bots are working, but perhaps how to "break" them to one's advantage as well. I don't want to disclose any details yet but I have been experimenting a bit to see if my hypothesis are correct; I will update later with my findings
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Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Innovations
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Posted - 2009.04.28 10:08:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Midas Man on 28/04/2009 10:08:50 Edited by: Midas Man on 28/04/2009 10:08:24 Use these large implant suppliers to your advantage.
get 2-3 of each implant crash the price untill you can pick up full set for ~1.4 bil. buy them out and sell them as full set on contract/forum for ~2bil.
Easy profit and it "farmable" very easily.
Enjoy.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2009.04.28 14:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lobster Man I think I may have not only figured out vaguely how these bots are working, but perhaps how to "break" them to one's advantage as well. I don't want to disclose any details yet but I have been experimenting a bit to see if my hypothesis are correct; I will update later with my findings
I predict no follow up to this post is ever made
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Nairova Intaku
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Posted - 2009.04.29 22:34:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Nairova Intaku on 29/04/2009 22:38:49
Originally by: Midas Man
Use these large implant suppliers to your advantage.
get 2-3 of each implant crash the price untill you can pick up full set for ~1.4 bil. buy them out and sell them as full set on contract/forum for ~2bil.
Easy profit and it "farmable" very easily.
Enjoy.
This is pretty much exactly what I've been doing I've figured out more or less how to get them to automatically drop their prices, not quite to the low that I was hoping, but fairly significantly under what they "should" be going for. I (kind of accidentally, just during some experimentation) managed to bring the crystal delta spammers in jita down from 340m to around 280m, and it's been proving quite lucretive for me in the short run at least
I then make a point to petition the bot characters after I clean them out in hopes that they mess up while setting up their next account (found one REALLY dumb one so far :D )
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Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2009.04.29 22:37:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Lobster Man on 29/04/2009 22:37:51 Basically what is stated above ^
On another note, it seems that there may be vague trends in how often the NPCs actually drop these implants too. The last time I picked up a few crystals off DG drops out in venal, when I went to sell them the market was quite saturated. Within a few days most of them had dissapeared and the prices had gone back up a little bit.
This could have been purely luck, but I've noticed similar trends each time I pick up a "good" implant as a belt NPC loot drop.
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Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2009.05.02 13:34:00 -
[26]
Just an update, I have also gone and petitioned "MiniPrincesa" due to some very, very suspicious activities like undercutting exactly every 10mins by 1 isk, never signing off, etc etc etc.
My hopes really aren't too high as far as any action being taken though
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Sola Veritas
Minmatar Galactic Master Business academy
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Posted - 2009.05.02 19:18:00 -
[27]
I have also run into MiniPrincesa a few times. I have seen this person log off occasionally, but not for long (it's not like I'm keeping detailed records of their playtime though).
Whether Mini is a bot or not, I would definitely like to see the bot "traders" burn. And I encourage other traders to see this become their fate. The market is PvP. Even if CCP can't/won't do anything about it, we can.
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