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thisbe tia
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Posted - 2009.04.20 20:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: thisbe tia on 20/04/2009 20:18:17
I found this thread in the Game Development Forum, tucked away on page 6.
Linky
I think maybe the original poster uses English as a second language, so maybe didn't get his idea across as succinctly as he wished to, and after discussing this with some corp mates I figured that I'd repost it with some refinements and ideas about why something similar may work really well. Only obvious difference is that this wouldn't be empire controlled as in the OP's idea.
Wormhole Stabiliser Modules:
One of the problems that I see with w space is that although I'm finding it easy enough to scan out the wormholes, lots of them have a very small mass allowance (i.e. a mass allowance that only lets 3 BS into class 5-6 wormholes from a class 2 wormhole is just not enough to get a decent gang in and also allow them to return later)
I would like to see modules that are anchorable, just like a pos mod. They would enable you to expand/stabilise the wormhole for a defined amount of time, and would use consumable materials to do so. Just one caveat.. you can only ever have one or perhaps two modules deployed in any given w space system.
This would allow several possibilities:
1) W space exploration would become more meaningful for expanding corps/allowances, and enable them to utilise it to a much greater degree by semi permanently linking the systems.
2) Alliances could actually set up in W space without holding sovereignty. Yes this allows Large alliances to get an advantage over smaller organisations. But not without risk!
3) Smaller alliances could disrupt the trade routes by destroying the Modules, thereby closing the wormhole/allowing it to despawn naturally depending on how long the module had been in place. This is why only ever having one Mod online in system is vital. Another Corp/Alliance can still find a random wormhole in, and use a squad to destroy your trade route, thereby dividing your forces, and hopefully then conquer said forces..
4) The alliance could also voluntarily shut one of the gates.. It would save their core resources, but could also cut off other resources/pilots.. decisions in war SHOULD be tough!
Surely some of this reflects how true sovereignty SHOULD work. And just like in real world military operations it would allow a smaller force with a stronger tactical approach to succeed in whatever endeavours they seek.
Of course all of these would depend on how this was implemented, and how long lasting or how 'wide' you could make the w holes.
What do you think?
Edit: Syntax
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.20 21:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 20/04/2009 21:25:38
Despite everyones hopes and dreams... Wormholes are just another Exploration site.
Get in, kill stuff, loot... and get out.
I fail to understand why people are so intent on building a white picket fence around their w-space.
There's more than enough unpopulated systems out there. |
TorrusTron
Caldari
Taiidan Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.04.21 00:23:00 -
[3]
i like the idea of a small corp claiming a wormhole system.
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Wait here i will go for help |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.21 00:49:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
One of the problems that I see with w space is that although I'm finding it easy enough to scan out the wormholes, lots of them have a very small mass allowance (i.e. a mass allowance that only lets 3 BS into class 5-6 wormholes from a class 2 wormhole is just not enough to get a decent gang in and also allow them to return later)
Sigh...why do people assume that you need to bring in BS? You can bring something like 10 cruisers in for every BS you bring in. Battleships are designed to destroy the mass allowance of the WH fast.
Quote:
1) W space exploration would become more meaningful for expanding corps/allowances, and enable them to utilise it to a much greater degree by semi permanently linking the systems.
You can already do this. Set up POS in w-space system, use it as a base. Of course, you will still have to search for new WHs from that location...but that's good, as a place to sit and farm the same system for days/weeks on end was not the idea behind w-space.
Quote:
2) Alliances could actually set up in W space without holding sovereignty. Yes this allows Large alliances to get an advantage over smaller organisations. But not without risk!
Already possible. There are already several w-space exploration alliances that exist...If you mean the giant 0.0 powerblocs should start moving into w-space, **** no. W-space is a new type of space for a new type of alliance/corp/player, not an extension of existing 0.0
Quote:
3) Smaller alliances could disrupt the trade routes by destroying the Modules, thereby closing the wormhole/allowing it to despawn naturally depending on how long the module had been in place. This is why only ever having one Mod online in system is vital. Another Corp/Alliance can still find a random wormhole in, and use a squad to destroy your trade route, thereby dividing your forces, and hopefully then conquer said forces..
I don't see the issue here. That's what regular 0.0 is for. If regular 0.0 doesn't fit this model (which admittedly it doesn't), then we should fix 0.0, not change w-space.
Quote:
4) The alliance could also voluntarily shut one of the gates.. It would save their core resources, but could also cut off other resources/pilots.. decisions in war SHOULD be tough!
Until they spend 30 minutes to find another exit to k-space, of course.
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thisbe tia
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Posted - 2009.04.21 13:43:00 -
[5]
Kahega,
You do come up with some interesting points.
Quote:
Sigh...why do people assume that you need to bring in BS? You can bring something like 10 cruisers in for every BS you bring in. Battleships are designed to destroy the mass allowance of the WH fast.
I feel that bringing cruisers to a class 5 dangerous wormhole would be like bringing a pea shooter to a gunfight. If this is something you have experience of success with as a technique, then fair enough.. but i dont ususally have more than 10 pilots to fly with, let alone 30-50..
Quote:
You can already do this. Set up POS in w-space system, use it as a base. Of course, you will still have to search for new WHs from that location...but that's good, as a place to sit and farm the same system for days/weeks on end was not the idea behind w-space.
This is something that i already do, however would make things much easier and profitable if there was a way to stabilise the w hole.. and may bring the price of tech III closer into line with what CCP envisioned.
Quote:
Already possible. There are already several w-space exploration alliances that exist...If you mean the giant 0.0 powerblocs should start moving into w-space, **** no. W-space is a new type of space for a new type of alliance/corp/player, not an extension of existing 0.0
What I meant is that with the proposed system, even if large alliances set up in W space, smaller ones would still have the capability to compete, especially since the Titans and motherships wouldn't be able to enter the fight.
Quote:
I don't see the issue here. That's what regular 0.0 is for. If regular 0.0 doesn't fit this model (which admittedly it doesn't), then we should fix 0.0, not change w-space.
I think that this could be a great pre-cursor to fixing sovereignty, and a great way to experiment with possible solutions to the 0.0 sovereignty problem.
Quote:
Until they spend 30 minutes to find another exit to k-space, of course.
In my experience there are plenty of class 4, 5 and 6 wormholes that NEVER have exits to empire space, just other w spaces. If im 100% wrong here then my plan kinda falls flat, however if im right then it would mean a hell of a lot of effort to get those resources back together.. And this is kind of key to te whole suggestion really.. lol
Seriously.. If anyone else can confirm or deny these assumptions, then please do so.. It may be that im just playing wild eyed scientist here! On the other hand it may be a great way to have a regular shifting of power with a much more interesting and involving way of managing space..
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.04.21 13:58:00 -
[6]
Stabalization of wormholes would pave the way for the claiming of w-space by large alliances, re-creating the "gridlock" of ownership claims that currently exists in "old 0.0". This is a bad idea.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
luurch
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Posted - 2009.04.26 21:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Stabalization of wormholes would pave the way for the claiming of w-space by large alliances, re-creating the "gridlock" of ownership claims that currently exists in "old 0.0". This is a bad idea.
Not if the connecting holes were destructable by enemy pilots as suggested. Would make large amounts of connections almost impossible to take care of..
Sounds ok to me 
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.04.27 00:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: luurch
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Stabalization of wormholes would pave the way for the claiming of w-space by large alliances, re-creating the "gridlock" of ownership claims that currently exists in "old 0.0". This is a bad idea.
Not if the connecting holes were destructable by enemy pilots as suggested. Would make large amounts of connections almost impossible to take care of..
Sounds ok to me
Enemy assets are destructable in "old 0.0" and who owns that, the little guys or the giant alliances?
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Esiel
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.27 01:12:00 -
[9]
The only way this could work is if the stabilization could only last a fixed amount of time and there were some additional rules attached to this.
First only allow stabilization of certain wormholes. You can scan and see if the wormhole is one that can be stabilized (that will allow people to be able to do a hard wormhole.) Next make it last only a couple of hours - maybe 3 or 4 at max. Finally it should only allows BS or smaller once stabilized, if you want caps go play in 0.0
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Beat the dead horse |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente
legion of qui
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2009.04.27 01:50:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Originally by: luurch
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Stabalization of wormholes would pave the way for the claiming of w-space by large alliances, re-creating the "gridlock" of ownership claims that currently exists in "old 0.0". This is a bad idea.
Not if the connecting holes were destructable by enemy pilots as suggested. Would make large amounts of connections almost impossible to take care of..
Sounds ok to me
Enemy assets are destructable in "old 0.0" and who owns that, the little guys or the giant alliances?
Pretty much this. Right now wormholes are the last bastion of the smaller group.
This idea would destroy that.
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CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.04.27 08:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: TorrusTron
i like the idea of a small corp claiming a wormhole system.
90% of the wormholes I have visited so far already have a POS in them. I'd say they already can.
Stabilisation just opens up the wormholes to being bubbled, farmed and perma-camped - much like parts of 0.0. I'm not sure I see the motivation for more of the same when what we currently have is very nicely different.
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My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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Estan Drake
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2009.05.22 02:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: thisbe tia
In my experience there are plenty of class 4, 5 and 6 wormholes that NEVER have exits to empire space, just other w spaces. If im 100% wrong here then my plan kinda falls flat, however if im right then it would mean a hell of a lot of effort to get those resources back together.. And this is kind of key to te whole suggestion really.. lol
Seriously.. If anyone else can confirm or deny these assumptions, then please do so.. It may be that im just playing wild eyed scientist here! On the other hand it may be a great way to have a regular shifting of power with a much more interesting and involving way of managing space..
Just to "confirm or deny" I got myself into class 7 wormhole space from Empire space. I didn't realize at first till i got insta popped by a bunch of turrets immediately upon entering a site. There was also a wormhole that exited into 0.0 space. In effect, while these wormholes remained open it directly linked deep 0.0 space to just a few jumps from an empire trade hub.
I think that system would be camped fairly substantially if the wormholes stayed open for any length of time
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A Pacifist
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.05.22 03:25:00 -
[13]
Edited by: A Pacifist on 22/05/2009 03:33:38
No point stabilizing wormholes until they buff the spawn rate of sites inside them, as it currently isn't profitable to stay in a particular WH longer than a couple days.
If a buff of spawn rates is to happen, a general increase in WH stability is probably better, since as it stands W-space is far too safe all things considered.
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