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Sanctioning of Ninja Salvaging

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Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.04.21 20:53:00 - [1] Edited by: Lear Hepburn on 21/04/2009 20:54:22 Originally by: Caldari 5 Please re-read all of my Posts in this thread, It's not the salvaging that I have the issue with, it's the salvaging in an active mission that I have a problem with. If the mission is handed in and the gates despawn it's open season on the salvage, until that point however it is mission space and thus the mission runners. Two points: 1. How are ninja salvagers to find the completed mission space if there are no ships there, only unscannable wrecks? 2. Mission runners can sweep up a mission's wrecks before handing in the mission within time limits. I've done it plenty myself. Your proposed solution effectively reserves the wrecks for the mission runner until he decides he doesn't want them by handing in the mission. This is not an acceptable solution as it effectively adds wrecks to mission rewards, which is not their purpose. There is no problem with salvaging an active mission. The salvager is taking more risk as the mission runner could cause the mission NPCs to attack him.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.04.21 21:29:00 - [2] Originally by: Caldari 5 1. Having not ever tried to scan down a wreck I didn't know that they were not scannable, I thought that they were, maybe this is something that can be looked at. 2. See my response to point 1. Even if wrecks were scannable they would still be at the mercy of the mission runner as, under your plan, only he can open up gates, leaving whole rooms of wrecks for him to salvage at leisure. Quote: How is the salvager at risk? The mission runner has all the agro. Even warping out of the mission after agroing the entire room doesn't cause issue to the salvager, as they are typically in a smaller ship to the mission runner and can align and get out before the agro switches. (mission runner probably in a BS, and the salvager in a Destroyer) It is quite possible to cause the rats to aggro on the salvager. If the salvager gets out of there then unless he's bookmarked he's got to scan down the mission again - quite an inconvenience. That said, I'm not entirely certain what your beef with close-by cleanup crews actually is. If you're happy to let them salvage "your" wrecks then why can't they salvage the same room you're in?
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.04.21 22:18:00 - [3] Originally by: Caldari 5 Originally by: Lear Hepburn That said, I'm not entirely certain what your beef with close-by cleanup crews actually is. If you're happy to let them salvage "your" wrecks then why can't they salvage the same room you're in? They are not in fleet and thus don't know when tank is broken and to get the ** out of the mission I have lost 2 ships due to **tard salvagers preventing me aligning to get out of the mission. So you want an MMO without other people interfering? Methinks you are in the wrong place. Seriously, if the only reason you want people out of your mission space is because they screw with your plans then you need to go to WoW. That is life in Eve I'm afraid - like it or leave it.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.04.22 16:06:00 - [4] Originally by: Kel Nissa Actually some people got some things wrong ... For example everytime when someone talks about ninja salvaging someone responds that mission runners should be lucky that it does not trigger because otherwise they will die when they try to fight back. But the truth is that if ninja salvagers would actually want to fight back they would loot to flag themself as legitim target for this purpose. Its just that they dont do it and as such it seems like your argumentation is not to well. True, but opening up the mechanic to flagging would make ninja salvaging another form of can flipping. Do you really want your expensive faction-fitted PvE ship open to the attentions of PvP fitted ships? Currently ninja salvagers do not want to fight back as this is how the mechanic works - change the mechanic and people will adapt. Quote: Another thing wich is also potentially wrong is to think that god-like CCP does not make any failures. In fact they are just normal people and due to some constraints we are not aware of they simply do some things wrong by purpose. For example not everyone is aware of the fact that whenever a foreign person reps yourself in highsec you can give the friendly repper a concord-death whenever you want. Actually its a weird bug which is a side effect of the "error-solution" to fix the gank+rep problematik. Bug hunters will tell you that its a feature by purpose but in reality its just a weird side effect which can not be easily fixed. Of course CCP make mistakes, but this has been mentioned by them time and time again as a feature. Salvaging is a profession, whether you like it or not. Quote: Somehow im getting sad. Always the same flawed arguments when it comes to the ninja-salvaging topic. The reality is that salvaging mechanic is totally broken. I am not able to tell you if its by purpose or as side effect which can not be easily fixed because of lacking ressources. But for example when salvaging is really meant as "profession" shoulnt it be possible to scan down salvage and not only the mission runners who might be actually producing them? Maybe its just a feature which was introduced in this way to actually generate this sort of conflict. Who knows. I agree that salvage should be scannable. Quote: And by the way: im happy that so many people are arguing in favor of the current salvaging mechanic. Without this sort of comments the issue would not be recognized as real issue. (ECM mechanic changed a while ago - wasnt ECM one of the whine topic nr 1 before this happened?) Probably i should start ninja salving by myself. When the trouble increases the chance to a solution will also increase. Hmm reminds me that i still need to find a gankable victim to remind people of the rep-feature oddness. Maybe you should. Someone has said before that they think that more ninja salvagers are generated due to threads like these. The fact is, though, that a balance will be reached. X wrecks are produced, so X wrecks will be salvagable by Y salvagers. If <X wrecks are produced then Y salvagers can no lnger be supported, pushing would-be salvagers into other professions.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.04.23 05:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Kel Nissa Edited by: Kel Nissa on 22/04/2009 23:44:38 The last 2 posts where exactly this kind of stupid posts i talked about .. the first one talks about "ninjas will kill the carbears" - hey to be honest if they want doing that ninjas would loot. They dont loot and as such they are hiding behind the mechanic. Beliefe me the trueth is that actually mission runners are mostly not pure carebears - they are often pvp players farming isks for their real business. And some of them would be really willing to knock out this ninjas. A PvP player in a PvE ship will not "knock out" a suitable prepared "salvage flip" (as I shall refer to the tactic of using salvaging as a way to get aggro, just like can flipping). I'd suggest that such a player would be more likely to leave the salvage to the salvager as he would know how vulnerable his PvE ship was to such traps. Quote: The other one talkes about ninjas getting rigs cheaper. What a LOL. Do you really thing that mission runners would complain about ninja salvagers all the time when they are not willing to salvage their stuff? Actually most of them salvage their stuff because its worth the effort. And ninjas salvage selectively on mission runners they expect high valuable salvage - exactly this ones are the players who would salvage their missions or trade the wrecks to friends if they actually dont care about. Actually, the only ones who complain are the mission runners who do want to salvage. Those who don't mostly don't care. Ninjas do make rigs cheaper on the market. The increase the supply of raw materials, which means that they must be reducing price. As has been said time and time again by me, others and even by CCP, the salvage does not belong to the mission runnner - it's not "their stuff"

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