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(Cash Flow for Capsuleers 6 of 10) Is it possible?

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Miko Gioiosa	Posted - 2009.04.22 15:11:00 - [1] Is it possible to do this mission with just tutorial based resources? The last part have 2 Sentry guns that shrug off damage and do immense damage. In 3 shots you have no shield and no armor along with major internal damage, and this is with the best Frigate given by the Tutorials at the time. Even with better weapons than that provided by the tutorial, the sentry guns are almost impossible to kill. Most of us probably do not want to lose our best Frigate so that means we play the go in, damage and warp out with like 10% health remaining, just to return and find the Sentry guns are at full power with no damage again. How can you beat this Tutorial with stock (meaning they are given by the previous tutorials) resources?
Tranka Verrane Public Venture Enterprises	Posted - 2009.04.22 15:21:00 - [2] Frankly I'm always surprised any mission can be done using the rookie ships. The rookie ships aren't really intended for much more than demonstrating how guns and mining lasers work. They are for killing the drone in the starter tutorial. The rest of the missions are not tutorials. They are level one missions, and should be completed in a frigate. if you don't have the means by then to buy a frigate, even a condor for instance, you are doing something very wrong. That said it is possible to complete many level one missions in the rookie ships. It is also possible to make love standing up in a hammock, but I don't recommend it. Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2009.04.22 15:59:00 - [3] Edited by: Billy Sastard on 22/04/2009 16:01:04 I cant remember for sure here, but isnt the mission objective met when the sentries spawn (as in, they spawn after you destroy the outpost in the final room)? I cant remember because when I last ran a newb character through these missions it was at 2am and I was fairly well toasted.
Tranka Verrane Public Venture Enterprises	Posted - 2009.04.22 16:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Billy Sastard Edited by: Billy Sastard on 22/04/2009 16:01:04 I cant remember for sure here, but isnt the mission objective met when the sentries spawn (as in, they spawn after you destroy the outpost in the final room)? I cant remember because when I last ran a newb character through these missions it was at 2am and I was fairly well toasted. This is also possible. Never assume you have to kill everything and read mission briefings properly.
Hydra Ki	Posted - 2009.04.22 16:13:00 - [5] Originally by: Miko Gioiosa Is it possible to do this mission with just tutorial based resources? How can you beat this Tutorial with stock (meaning they are given by the previous tutorials) resources? Equiped the ship with a looted shield booster will help with the damage.
Miko Gioiosa	Posted - 2009.04.22 16:20:00 - [6] Edited by: Miko Gioiosa on 22/04/2009 16:21:08 The Mission requires you to destroy the space station. It is better shielded than the Sentry Guns. Add in at least 2 to 4 NPC Pirate craft and you have a nasty painful situation. I had a Shield Booster, 50mm of Armor and 2x Dual Pulse lasers with Radio Crystals and I am still getting whomped every time I enter the area. A shield booster does not help alot when the shield goes away in 2 shots. (one from each Sentry gun) I just sold almost everything I had to buy a better Frigate that (hopefully) can use missiles. Maybe that will help. Oh and these are Tutorials, they have popups that teach you different tactics and how things work. A level 1 mission would not give you any assistance; I think the Sisters of Eve missions would be more level 1.
Sin Fae Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2009.04.22 17:58:00 - [7] Well money shouldn't be a limiting issue :o) But as has been said, make sure you read the mission briefing carefully, sometimes things are different than first glance. . .
Tranka Verrane Public Venture Enterprises	Posted - 2009.04.22 19:07:00 - [8] Originally by: Miko Gioiosa Edited by: Miko Gioiosa on 22/04/2009 16:21:08 Oh and these are Tutorials, they have popups that teach you different tactics and how things work. A level 1 mission would not give you any assistance; I think the Sisters of Eve missions would be more level 1. Really? Then that's new. The SOE epic arc to which you refer has some parts which border on level 2. But the NPE has had a lot of revamps, I know, and a long time since I tried them. However the general rule that holds true is get out of that rookie ship as soon as you can. Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.22 19:14:00 - [9] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 22/04/2009 19:16:13 You are not limited to tutorial ships and items. Nobody said the tutorial missions had to be completed with tutorial equipment, or even could be. I did some mining in my Bantam (my tutorial mining frigate) and bought a Kestrel (missile frigate) and named tech 1 modules pretty cheap. Made the tutorials and level 1 missions easier, as I could use light missiles at about 27 km, which is out of many frigates' range. If you prefer close range attacks, then I recommend an energy vampire (preferably named) which will let you run your shield booster (preferably named, or equip 2 civilian) almost continuously.
Mitsune Nakai Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.04.22 19:20:00 - [10] I don't think you should have to do that mission in the starter ship, I'd recieved a new ship (an Executioner) as a mission reward on an earlier mission in the chain. I had to warp away from the fight once though because my capacitor had run out and I couldn't use my shield booster any more. But yeah, I finished all the missions in the chain this morning, it's nice how many skillbooks and items they give you. :)

Hydra Ki	Posted - 2009.04.22 19:29:00 - [11] from the cash flow quests you get 2/10 frigate excutioner 3/10 two gatlin pulse 4/10 afterburner I this is the setup i used, 2 gatlin pulses w/ multi lense 1 afterburner I 1 civ shield booster 1 civ damage control unit 1 heat sink what worked for me; turned on the ab/shield booster/damage control then focused on killing the npc ships, then the turrets.
Jigger Senseneiss Caldari Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.04.22 19:36:00 - [12] Lead the ships away from the guns. When you warp in, align yourself to a distant station, asteroid belt, or stargate and take out the rats that follow you. Then go back and take out the sentry guns, by using your shield booster. If I recall, they hit hard, but they are slow. Don't leave shield booster running the whole time, or it will drain your capacitors. Turn on/off as needed. <><><><> *Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion, you must set yourself on fire.*
Miko Gioiosa	Posted - 2009.04.22 20:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Jigger Senseneiss Lead the ships away from the guns. When you warp in, align yourself to a distant station, asteroid belt, or stargate and take out the rats that follow you. Then go back and take out the sentry guns, by using your shield booster. If I recall, they hit hard, but they are slow. Don't leave shield booster running the whole time, or it will drain your capacitors. Turn on/off as needed. Figured it out... It turns out that the Sentry guns have a weakness I never considered. I was always attack from range, after all my weapons optimal range is 15km, so I was trying to fight from around 12-14km. I was getting spanked hard... So I tried what Jigger said, and concentrated on the fighters which I killed with ease but the Sentry guns forced me to warp out after each fighter just to prevent internal damage (aka Shield and Armor gone). After I killed the last fighter I came back and tried to run for a Astroid, I made a mistake and accidentally selected Orbit 500m. Imagine my shock when the Sentry guns could not hit me... They had a 20% hit success (two shots out of 10 hit me)when I was orbiting close, after I killed the first one, the second raised to around a 100% chance to hit me for 2 shots (bye bye Shield) before I got into a 500m orbit around it and then it could not hit me. So the secret to taking them out is to orbit at high speed at close range so they cannot track you.
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2009.04.22 20:52:00 - [14] You just taught yourself how to speedtank! Congratulations on a job well done I am not sure why nobody mentioned this previously, or why I didn't think to... sorry for dropping the ball there. <-------------------------------------------------> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
Mitsune Nakai Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.04.22 21:28:00 - [15] Speed tank eh? Interesting :) I was using gatling pulse lasers so my range was only 2000m anyway, so maybe that's why I didn't take so much damage. I'll have to make sure I orbit things more closely. :) I do seem to run into rocks and stuff all too often though which screws it up.
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2009.04.23 01:49:00 - [16] Your mistakes were: 1) Using the Radio Ammunition - it gives longer range but much less hitting power. Use either the Standard Crystals or one of the closer range Crystals. Multi-frequency is the most powerful but it has the shortest range. 2) You didn't understand your ship. Every Faction has a Fast Frigate. The Atron for the Galente, the Condor for the Caldari, the Slasher for the Minmatar and the Executioner for the Amarr. These ships pretty much have to speed tank as their armor is very week. You stumbled onto the correct solution, get in close and orbit the guy so that his guns couldn't track you. There are two basic tactics for dealing with Missions. Orbiting and Kitting. You kite the rats that are weaker than you are by getting their agro, making them chase you, then using long range guns (such as beam lasers with Radio crystals) to hit them from beyond their range, and a good afterburner to stay away from them. You Orbit things that are slower and more powerful than you are. This involves moving around them faster than their big guns can track you. Thus - you for example - don't want to get into an orbiting battle while using beam lasers. Never the less - you are doing this the hard way. The easy way is to train Faction Frigate III - and get into a Punisher - which will eat anything in those missions alive - and has the Power Grid, CPU and Capacitor to Fit a good tank and good weapons. Of course - what you really want - is a destroyer - in your case the Coercer. Actually you want 2 of them. Fit one with beam lasers to kite the rats and the other with Tractor Beams and Salvagers. One thing about Lasers - is you get NOTHING after fall off. So don't even shoot if you're past it. To calculate your range: 1) Put a crystal on your weapon. 2) Right click on it and do a show info. 3) Go to the Attributes tab and scroll down to Optimal Range - note what that is. 4) Go back up to Fall Off - note what that is and add it to the Optimal. The sum of the Optimal and Fall Off - is your maximum range. 5) Select a DIFFERENT crystal - and do it all again (exit the Show Info Window and bring it up again) to see how this crystal effects your range. Beyond your maximun you will hit nothing so don't even turn your Lasers on as they use cap. Get familiar with your crystals and pick a SET that you like. Typically this will be 2-3 crystals. Say, Radio, Standard and Multi-Frequency. Get to know your ranges for these crystals with the weapons you have mounted. If you mount a different weapon - you need to find out how it works as well. Now - two things about Laser Crystals: 1) that unlike everyone elses ammo - they last a very long time. Named Crystals Like Blood Radio Small do wear out but the normal ones seem to last forever. So you usually don't need to carry spares for each crystal in your hold - unless you think your named crystals are starting to go. 2) You can change crystals very rapidly. Changing ammo or charges takes about 10 seconds - and may not be something you want to do while you are being shot at. Even if you don't have the right ammo for the range you are at - at least you are shooting back. Changing Ammo or Charges - requires a judgement call as to whether or not it is worth not getting to shoot back for 10 seconds. Not so with Crystals. The change takes about a second. So know which crystals work at which ranges and change them as needed. OBTW look out for the mission where you have to fly in and check out this structure ... I think it's the one with all the dead vip's ... but there's a trap in there where they set off a big explosion, do all this damage to your ship and then up pop three Punishers. You want to be moving at a good clip when you pass within 1000 meters or so of that structure and then just warp out and repair your damage before going back and dealing with the Punishers ... It helps here if you are in a Punisher too ... Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools
Pesets	Posted - 2009.04.24 09:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Every Faction has a Fast Frigate. The Atron for the Galente, the Condor for the Caldari, the Slasher for the Minmatar and the Executioner for the Amarr. Actually, The Fast Frigate of Minmatar is Vigil
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2009.04.24 19:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Pesets Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Every Faction has a Fast Frigate. The Atron for the Galente, the Condor for the Caldari, the Slasher for the Minmatar and the Executioner for the Amarr. Actually, The Fast Frigate of Minmatar is Vigil Slasher = 419 m/sec Vigil = 353 m/sec Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools
Pesets	Posted - 2009.05.01 12:48:00 - [19] But Vigil is lighter, has three low slots and 5% bonus to ship velocity per skill level.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.05.01 16:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Pesets Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Every Faction has a Fast Frigate. The Atron for the Galente, the Condor for the Caldari, the Slasher for the Minmatar and the Executioner for the Amarr. Actually, The Fast Frigate of Minmatar is Vigil No, Vigil's the Electronic Warfare frigate and the Slasher really is the "fast" frigate. If nothing else, the Electronic Attack Ship is based on the Vigil hull and the Interceptors are based on the Slasher hull. While I agree with you that you can actually get higher speeds out of a Vigil depending on speed and fitting, that doesn't mean it fills the particular niche in the lineup. Two things I want to comment on in Toshiro's otherwise excellent post: Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Mistake 1) Using the Radio Ammunition - it gives longer range but much less hitting power. Use either the Standard Crystals or one of the closer range Crystals. Multi-frequency is the most powerful but it has the shortest range. I wouldn't lay this down as an out-and-out mistake. Especially in level 1 missions, you are likely to be able to do enough damage to destroy ships with Radio ammo - and if it lets you fire on the enemy from ranges where they can't damage you back, then that's a win. It's true that you would do more damage with e.g. Standard ammo - but if that put you within range of the NPC guns and you had to keep warping out to repair as a result (or worse, lost your ship) then Radio would have been the better choice. Of course, in this particular instance Radio did not give a range advantage, and so using it here was doing the OP no good - merely reducing damage output. But I wouldn't write it off completely, if the sentry guns/frigates had a 7km optimal range then using radio to pick them off from range would be a safer albeit slower way to complete the mission than to wade in with multifrequency and try to take the damage. So I would agree that in this case using Radio was a mistake, but it should come with a caveat that this is not always the case. In fact, if the OP starts using destroyers for missions, with so much sheer firepower available it's often better to fit with Radio S and just start popping enemies at the greatest possible range. Quote: One thing about Lasers - is you get NOTHING after fall off. So don't even shoot if you're past it. The turret formula for lasers is not any different to that for other turrets; they work exactly the same with regards to optimal and falloff. It so happens that lasers generally have the lowest falloff, but what you'd said there implies it's somehow treated separately when it's not. Additionally your phrasing could be misleading to someone who doesn't understand what falloff means. They could look at their guns' stats, see "falloff = 1500m" and think that they can't hit if they're more than 1500m from an enemy. What falloff actually means is how "quickly" your guns start to lose accuracy once you go beyond your optimal range. It's a measure of the extra distance that causes you to lose about 50% accuracy, so at optimal range + falloff about half your shots would miss against a stationary target. At optimal + 2falloff you're basically not hitting at all. To reiterate, you hit well anywhere within optimal range; but since lasers have relatively low falloffs, you'll lose accuracy quickly once you go beyond this - which is what I think Toshiro was trying to convey. If you compare this to e.g. autocannons, which have tiny optimals but massive falloffs, you can see the difference in philosophy with regards to how important optimal range is. Quote:* Named Crystals Like Blood Radio Small do wear out but the normal ones seem to last forever. Normal (tech 1) frequency crystals do indeed never wear out, it is only your capacitor that is drained while firing them. In fact they don't take any damage at all, so you can fire a million shots from one and then sell it on the market, as good as new.

Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.01 17:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Gartel Reiman Normal (tech 1) frequency crystals do indeed never wear out, it is only your capacitor that is drained while firing them. In fact they don't take any damage at all, so you can fire a million shots from one and then sell it on the market Mind expanding on this? T1 crystals have 1% volatility and 0.00025 volatility damage. To me that means that there is a 1 in 100 chance they'll take damage, and it will take 1 / 0.00025 = 4,000 such events to destroy them since they have 1 HP, so on average 400,000 shots. Nearly forever, or have I got this wrong and could you explain the attributes. Thanks.
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2009.05.02 06:19:00 - [22] Gartel: We are in complete agreement on the Radio Crystals. If it sounded like I was against them altogether that was my mistake. I typically use radio ammo - I just use it as you described - rather than as the OP did. It was his use of Radio in a situation that called for Standard or Multifrequency or something in between the two that was the mistake. I'll have to pay more attention but - my observation of the performance of my lasers is that they stop hitting all together after Optimal + Falloff. shrug Maybe they're supposed to hit out to Optimal + 2xFalloff ... but it doesn't seem to me like they do. Like I said - I'll pay more attention though. In game perceptions aren't always accurate. Perhaps they score such a low percentage of hits that it only appears they aren't hitting at all. Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.05.02 11:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Originally by: Gartel Reiman Normal (tech 1) frequency crystals do indeed never wear out, it is only your capacitor that is drained while firing them. In fact they don't take any damage at all, so you can fire a million shots from one and then sell it on the market Mind expanding on this? T1 crystals have 1% volatility and 0.00025 volatility damage. To me that means that there is a 1 in 100 chance they'll take damage, and it will take 1 / 0.00025 = 4,000 such events to destroy them since they have 1 HP, so on average 400,000 shots. Nearly forever, or have I got this wrong and could you explain the attributes. Actually - you're spot on with what the attributes mean. If you're getting that from the item database though, I'm not sure it's accurate. For one, it lists faction crystals as having 1% volatility and 0.00025 volatility damage too, whereas I'm sure that faction crystals actually have 100% volatility (so they always last exactly 4000 shots). Certainly in the past, T1 crystals really did last forever; I don't tend to use them that much these days so it's possible this was changed in a recent patch without me noticing. However, I would have expected this to become apparent; one a frequency crystal takes any damage at all, it can no longer be repackaged and you can't create contracts for that item (or a ship containing that item). I've not come across any T1 crystals that couldn't be repackaged, which suggests they still aren't taking volatility damage at all. When the server's back up I'll check the stats in-game and see what it says there.
alambar	Posted - 2009.05.03 01:02:00 - [24] Edited by: alambar on 03/05/2009 01:02:40 yeah when ever battling big guns move inside their effective range they cant hurt you. Also for your effectiveness, use only weapons effective at short range since your so close for maximum impact......


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