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Jack Miton Bite Me inc Exhale. 263	Posted - 2012.05.08 23:21:00 - [31] - Quote Serpah'y Bodyguard wrote: thing is we live in a cataclysmic variable so self-reppers are less effective In such condition would you change your tactic? yeah, i'd move to a different WH ;) you can't do escalations properly in a cataclysmic.
Mr Majestyk Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers. 5	Posted - 2012.05.09 02:42:00 - [32] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Serpah'y Bodyguard wrote: thing is we live in a cataclysmic variable so self-reppers are less effective In such condition would you change your tactic? yeah, i'd move to a different WH ;) you can't do escalations properly in a cataclysmic. Actually a cataclysmic is very good for escalations. Like was said earlier we can do 4 escalations at once, ends up being about 10 minutes per site. With a scorpion on grid the capitals never take aggro so their tank doesn't matter much and the carrier has insane reps in triage. Just goes to show eve is filled with information and strategies to discover. Jack - Battleships are mostly used just to get people involved not necessarily because they have a specific use, other than the scorpion.
Jack Miton Bite Me inc Exhale. 263	Posted - 2012.05.09 02:57:00 - [33] - Quote well sure, if you want to get other people isk for doing nothing, yes you can throw them in a token 'DPS' battleship.
Qui Shon Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance 5	Posted - 2012.05.09 06:30:00 - [34] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: oh im sure youre not over the hill :). I don't have a 2nd carrier when i run sites myself so that figure is for 3 cap escalations. basically you just warp in dread, archon, loki, kills 3-4 BSs and warp in second dread. dreads kills BSs, carrier kills cruisers with drones (sometimes there will be 1-2 left by the time dreads are done but they can hit cruisers fine), loki kills frigs while webbing and painting the BSs. all in all it work out to 2 siege cycles on the first dread so 10min per site + warp time + salvaging so 15min, give or take, all up. sites work out to 550mil odd each with 3 escalations. i don't see any role any BS can really serve. the only time you need BSs is if you dont have the skills on the cap pilots to take the sleeper agro and need BSs to clear at east part of the first escalation wave. Well a Loki has the same number of mids as a Bhaal, web range is sufficient on both, although you can use 60% webs more easily on Loki. Tank is of course superior on Loki but Bhaal has more utility, can kill both frigs and cruisers. This is why I stuck with the old Bhaal. Rapier has better bonuses and 6 mids, but highslots are a bit meh and tank is a bit weak. And how doesn't your Loki get capped out from neuts? It doesn't take aggro much? And your drones from carrier should get eaten. Hmm. Ah, you're talking C5 sites, I see now. C6's will be in the 900-1100 range with triple caps, Last time I checked the average for five mirrors came out to ~960m per site with current price on melted nanos, 695m in blue tags. I tried a few C5 sites but didn't see the advantage of them, besides fewer interruptions (incoming wh's) Still, the way I did them triage is needed, and it took FOUR cycles to do a C6 site, five if I mess up or give too much time to my salvager. Which is twice what you say for C5. And yet, if I include pre and post op timeshare in scanning, collapsing, hauling, selling, finding a new system, I got a better isk/h figure then you quoted in the other thread, peaking at 2.4bn for Citadels. 2.6 without pre and post op stuff. The numbers don't match up. Possibly because I salvaged while doing the next site. And because I happened to be somewhat lucky with finding exit and new sys that time when I kept an eye on the clock. Maybe I'll have to give Loki and Pilgrim another look, if I ever go PvEing again. Two Moros would undoubtedly do better then what I have now, but, it's some 130d to max out Hybrid and Gal dread, and I don't really want to do PvE again, so. Nah.
Jack Miton Bite Me inc Exhale. 263	Posted - 2012.05.09 06:35:00 - [35] - Quote i think youre talking fully running the sites. i'm just talking farming. ie: kill the cap escalations and everything in first wave apart from trigger and repeat after DT. doing it this way it makes no difference if it's a c5 or c6 after you initially clear the first wave and the isk is exactly the same. the advantage of C5s is that aharm and other large C6 residents won't roll into you when theyre chain collapsing ;) using a loki means you don't have to triage. just run 1 cap RR and 2 evenly spaced capital cap transfers on it and youre fine. the guardian BSs tend to ignore hammerhead IIs. and yeah, i salvage after I'm done (every 3 sites or so) which is a lot slower than doing it as you go but i cant be bothered setting up my third screen.
Qui Shon Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance 5	Posted - 2012.05.09 06:38:00 - [36] - Quote Aaa, okay. Yeah I fully run them so my Noctis can work in peace, simultaneously. Also because I tend to do it in bursts, like once a week a mega 6-8h session, then nothing for a week or two, so just doing the escalations doesn't really work for me. EDIT: And yeah I know this thread is about escalations but the point I objected to was bs utility.
Serpah'y Bodyguard State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.05.09 10:26:00 - [37] - Quote thank's guys for you're answers... Even i can't change WH as it's my corps CEO that decided to set up there! =) So i have to deal with this cataclysmic... Would a buffered dread do then job? and gets RR when coming out of siege? And yes we are planning on farming them not finishing the sites! Si now you understand why i want a BS getting aggro... is it a good plan?
Frau Leinsmarch Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers. 29	Posted - 2012.05.10 07:02:00 - [38] - Quote Serpah'y Bodyguard wrote: thank's guys for you're answers... Even i can't change WH as it's my corps CEO that decided to set up there! =) So i have to deal with this cataclysmic... Would a buffered dread do then job? and gets RR when coming out of siege? And yes we are planning on farming them not finishing the sites! Si now you understand why i want a BS getting aggro... is it a good plan? Buffer the dread, but if you have a scorpian with you, the caps will never take aggro. IMO having cataclysmic is a good thing, allows for the carrier to rep everything on grid to much greater effect.
Serpah'y Bodyguard State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.05.10 07:19:00 - [39] - Quote We did some sites yesterday, i was flying a Armageddon nay with 4 ECM multispectral t1 mods, i did NOT get aggro more than any other in the fleet, it was only a test. Next step is with a scorpion and with the geddon navy with racial ECM higher metas. I hope it will work.... The guys in my corp think than a buffered Dread is fail even with nice mods this thing has a hugs mouth of tank... like 1hat 1.5bil ehp or so... They are even speaking about dual rappers but then stability drops too around 5mins without any nets on the dread.. What you guys think?
Mr Majestyk Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers. 5	Posted - 2012.05.10 07:26:00 - [40] - Quote Frau Leinsmarch wrote: Serpah'y Bodyguard wrote: thank's guys for you're answers... Even i can't change WH as it's my corps CEO that decided to set up there! =) So i have to deal with this cataclysmic... Would a buffered dread do then job? and gets RR when coming out of siege? And yes we are planning on farming them not finishing the sites! Si now you understand why i want a BS getting aggro... is it a good plan? Buffer the dread, but if you have a scorpian with you, the caps will never take aggro. IMO having cataclysmic is a good thing, allows for the carrier to rep everything on grid to much greater effect. This is how you should run cataclysmic capital escalations with an armor fleet. Ships Used: -3 Webbers, 1 is enough as long as you have 4ish webs. You can go with the Jack Mitton approach and use 1 loki with 3 webs and 2 TPs and be just fine. -1 Triage Carrier for keeping **** alive. -2+ dreads for escalations. You can get a site done in 10-15 minutes with 2 dreads, 10 minutes with 3, 6 will get it done in under 5 minutes. -1 carrier to be used to escalate the site. -Scorpion full armor tanked with fuel Smartbombs for killing frigs, needs to have 90k+ EHP with a booster. -Booster alt. Not required but makes things a TON easier. The site: -Warp carrier into site. -Warp rest of fleet into site, including ALL dreads. Do not warp in more than 1 dread at a time if you don't have a booster alt.* -Starting repping scorpion as it starts to jam ships. -When less than 10 battleships in site warp in second carrier. -Repeat for next site -Salvage at end or behind your fleet, don't leave the noctis alone because it is an easy target. Also since you are leaving the trigger up you need to tank your noctis, for armor use an 800 DCU and EANM and you are fine. Make sure you have a carrier repping it because a sleepless warden will take 35% of your armor per volley, 70% if you use 2 EANMS and a DCU. Other: -Dreads will never get aggro. -Carrier will only have aggro on the initial warp in and then rarely after. -Scorpion will have aggro 80% of the time. Other ships will get it sometimes. --Scorpion mechanics we observed. ---When a scorpion jams it generates threat that makes everything want to kill it. ---When a sleeper is jammed it will not retarget the scorpion, think aggro reset. ---Don't let the scorpions DCU get turned off. -Drones rarely get aggro. -You will get multiple full sites switches every once in a while. -Like jack said, if you don't kill the first wave trigger you can do the escalations until the site despawns after 4 days. Clear the site on the last day to maximize income. *Make sure you stagger your capital warp ins atleast 5 seconds apart. DO NOT fleet warp the entire fleet because 20 sleepless guardians have a very high alpha to the tune of: 108,000 missile damage 31,640 turret damage -The first volley of missiles and second volley of guns will hit at the same time and pop your ship. So if you spawn all 20 in the exact same second they will do about 150+ dmg in the span of 1.5 seconds, to fast for you to rep. If you space the escalations atleast 5-10 seconds apart their damage is no longer in sync and is repairable. Yes we learned this the hard way. Doing 4 escalations and a radar trigger at the same time is also possible but not worth it because extra carriers don't add DPS. It is possible if you spread the waves by 10-15 seconds again but not worth it.
Mr Majestyk Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers. 5	Posted - 2012.05.10 07:27:00 - [41] - Quote .
Frau Leinsmarch Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers. 29	Posted - 2012.05.10 07:30:00 - [42] - Quote Serpah'y Bodyguard wrote: We did some sites yesterday, i was flying a Armageddon nay with 4 ECM multispectral t1 mods, i did NOT get aggro more than any other in the fleet, it was only a test. Next step is with a scorpion and with the geddon navy with racial ECM higher metas. I hope it will work.... The guys in my corp think than a buffered Dread is fail even with nice mods this thing has a hugs mouth of tank... like 1hat 1.5bil ehp or so... They are even speaking about dual rappers but then stability drops too around 5mins without any nets on the dread.. What you guys think? Ok so after I wrote this... realised someone had already explained everything lol. See posts before.
Serpah'y Bodyguard State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.05.10 07:38:00 - [43] - Quote Tank you Mr Majestyk! I need now to get my corp mate eyes open and stop shitting in their pans for the dreads... **** i need my owns dread! happy that what i believe in is the good way to run those sites! =)
Mr Majestyk Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers. 5	Posted - 2012.05.10 16:18:00 - [44] - Quote Serpah'y Bodyguard wrote: Tank you Mr Majestyk! I need now to get my corp mate eyes open and stop shitting in their pans for the dreads... **** i need my owns dread! happy that what i believe in is the good way to run those sites! =) The best advice I can give you is to start slow. Don't rush into doing all capitals until you are comfortable doing 1 at a time.
Serpah'y Bodyguard State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.05.10 16:55:00 - [45] - Quote yeah i wouldn't! Thank's a lot for you're help! I made my friends reads all you wrote and it might have changed their mind... (a bit)

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