Pages: 1 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Bauloe
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 19:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am concerned about the Podpilots disconnect with the risk of the crews they hire or enslave for their ships
for Pod pilots who wish to guarentee the safety of their crew what can they do?
If they can not protect their crew's death, can they insure the support of their families financially from the loss of their primary income earner? |
ValentinaDLM
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
489
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 19:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bauloe wrote:I am concerned about the Podpilots disconnect with the risk of the crews they hire or enslave for their ships
Do you really think people who would enslave their crew would care at all about the safety of the crew? |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
840
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 19:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well, the main thing I do to protect the crew of my ships is avoid getting my ship blown up. Andreus Anthony LeHane Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Animated Corporate Logos |
Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar White-Lotus
296
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 20:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bauloe wrote:I am concerned about the Podpilots disconnect with the risk of the crews they hire or enslave for their ships
for Pod pilots who wish to guarentee the safety of their crew what can they do?
If they can not protect their crew's death, can they insure the support of their families financially from the loss of their primary income earner?
I put a lot of work into the education of my crew into escape procedures and try to keep them in stasis-escape pods as much as possible when combat is likely. I try to keep a minimal crew, however there's the paradoxical risk in this is with few people available to get a job done or manage escape procedures, they're at a greater risk for becoming trapped and die.
I've studied and drawn from Duvolle's and Boundless Creation's research into this. I've learned a few important things. Dedicated safety coordinators can increase survival by more than twenty percent at a slight loss of performance-per-body. Calling for evacuation as soon as I realize I'm losing has more than doubled survival rates. Paying third-parties for S&R can be potentially less expensive than hiring and training new (or buying out already-trained) crew.
Picking your battles is probably the best way to protect your crew of all. Don't waste them, they are people who are depending on you to make smart decisions. All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range. [ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ] Identify "North" [ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ] |
Bauloe
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 20:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
ValentinaDLM wrote:Bauloe wrote:I am concerned about the Podpilots disconnect with the risk of the crews they hire or enslave for their ships
Do you really think people who would enslave their crew would care at all about the safety of the crew?
Enslavement actually can have two levels there is typical Crack the whip and beat them with a stick slave where they are nothing but assets, or less than assets.
On the other hand some Amarr Masters, Treat them as their children. Making sure they are healthy and conform as apart of the family. They may not gain repsonibility of more than a Child, they are treated fairly
|
ValentinaDLM
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
489
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 20:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bauloe wrote:ValentinaDLM wrote:Bauloe wrote:I am concerned about the Podpilots disconnect with the risk of the crews they hire or enslave for their ships
Do you really think people who would enslave their crew would care at all about the safety of the crew? Enslavement actually can have two levels there is typical Crack the whip and beat them with a stick slave where they are nothing but assets, or less than assets. On the other hand some Amarr Masters, Treat them as their children. Making sure they are healthy and conform as apart of the family. They may not gain repsonibility of more than a Child, they are treated fairly
Despite or perhaps because of the fact I served for a time in the Amarr Militia I have come to have an understanding that the when the Empire claims to be helping with the enslavement of the Minmatar crews they are in fact full of excrement when making such statements.
Death is no salvation, there is no death in Nation, but in the empire all that can be had are empty promises of an afterlife.The way I see it nowadays, Holders are but common criminals.
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
245
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Here are some things you can do to make sure your crews are protected as much as possible.
1) Run regular drills for evacuation. Every ship has the potential to explode, and your crew needs to know how to get out. Sometimes, unfortunately, your ship will explode very suddenly, and so...
2) Run strong tanks. The longer it takes for the enemy to blow up your ship, the greater the chance your crew has to escape when it becomes clear that there is no chance to survive.
3) Cloning. The True Slave Foundations has technology and a mindset that allows us to make particularly strong use of cloning technology, and the Reawakening process. However, even non-Foundations capsuleers can provide clones to their crew. Sadly, with the limits of soft cloning, these crew will not have any memories they would have gained since their last backup, and the large number of crew on some vessels coupled with the prohibitive cost of current cloning technology makes this option unavailable or undesireable to many.
|
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Even the pittance we dispense to the lowliest free crew members can make them far wealthier than they could ever achieve conducting some less-risker planetside drudgery. They know the risks.
The small isk insurance payouts to dead crewmember families (those that merit such considerations of course ) that many capusleers pay is enough to leave their families living comfortably for the rest of their lives.
These matters should be beneath your concern however. HIre some baseliner assistants to handle this sort of thing, yes?
|
ValentinaDLM
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Federation designed vessels, also tend to use lots of automation leading to fewer crews required. Also, since I personally make a fair bit of isk off of creodron designs I have a secondary reason to advocate Gallente hulls. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'd also add for those capsuleers that are overly concerned with their precious snowflakes to pursue a career in mining, manufacturing, or hauling items around for their betters.
|
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
245
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:I'd also add for those capsuleers that are overly concerned with their precious snowflakes to pursue a career in mining, manufacturing, or hauling items around for their betters.
None of these are really safer, and the ships explode much faster than would a combat vessel of the same size.
|
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:I'd also add for those capsuleers that are overly concerned with their precious snowflakes to pursue a career in mining, manufacturing, or hauling items around for their betters.
None of these are really safer, and the ships explode much faster than would a combat vessel of the same size.
How is manufacturing not safer?
Most capsuleer miners stay in Empire and are rarely threatened.
|
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
632
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:I'd also add for those capsuleers that are overly concerned What makes you think people here are "overly" concerned? |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:I'd also add for those capsuleers that are overly concerned What makes you think people here are "overly" concerned?
As we are nearly all mass-murderers I find more than a rudimentary concern for such things ironic to the highest degree.
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
245
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:I'd also add for those capsuleers that are overly concerned with their precious snowflakes to pursue a career in mining, manufacturing, or hauling items around for their betters.
None of these are really safer, and the ships explode much faster than would a combat vessel of the same size. How is manufacturing not safer? Most capsuleer miners stay in Empire and are rarely threatened.
The manufacturing process is safer. The shipping of those items, or the collection of raw materials, however, is not. Some capsuleers seem to delight in the destruction of these vessels even when there is no profit in it, or when the ship is not a military target. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:I'd also add for those capsuleers that are overly concerned with their precious snowflakes to pursue a career in mining, manufacturing, or hauling items around for their betters.
None of these are really safer, and the ships explode much faster than would a combat vessel of the same size. How is manufacturing not safer? Most capsuleer miners stay in Empire and are rarely threatened. The manufacturing process is safer. The shipping of those items, or the collection of raw materials, however, is not. Some capsuleers seem to delight in the destruction of these vessels even when there is no profit in it, or when the ship is not a military target.
Usually on an annual basis for that ridiculous publicity stunt, yes.... I get your meaning but I still it feel far, far safer. |
ValentinaDLM
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:I'd also add for those capsuleers that are overly concerned with their precious snowflakes to pursue a career in mining, manufacturing, or hauling items around for their betters.
None of these are really safer, and the ships explode much faster than would a combat vessel of the same size. How is manufacturing not safer? Most capsuleer miners stay in Empire and are rarely threatened.
I have only destroyed one mining barge in lowsec, yet between me and associates quite a few in highsec. Since i also help with industrial concerns of UMKFC, I can also add that our mining and manufacturing operations in nullsec and wormhole space have suffered the least capsuleer related attack. Our deployment of starbases while temporary in nature has also yielded the same results.
As counter intuitive as it may seem, low or nullsec is generally much safer for miners, as it is reasonable to stay at a starbase or station in the event other capsuleers are present however, in highsec population issues prevent this, making an easy target. This alone has changed Fan Club doctrine to use only t1 fit retrivers, battleships, and reprocessing to get minerals outside of stain or lowsec metropolis. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 16:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Interesting! It appears I'm quite 'out of the loop' on mining these days. Although I do quite like the idea of high-sec miners cowering in fear on a regular basis.
Thank you for your illuminating comments, both of you.
|
Arkady Vachon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 11:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Here are some things you can do to make sure your crews are protected as much as possible.
1) Run regular drills for evacuation. Every ship has the potential to explode, and your crew needs to know how to get out. Sometimes, unfortunately, your ship will explode very suddenly, and so...
2) Run strong tanks. The longer it takes for the enemy to blow up your ship, the greater the chance your crew has to escape when it becomes clear that there is no chance to survive.
3) Cloning. The True Slave Foundations has technology and a mindset that allows us to make particularly strong use of cloning technology, and the Reawakening process. However, even non-Foundations capsuleers can provide clones to their crew. Sadly, with the limits of soft cloning, these crew will not have any memories they would have gained since their last backup, and the large number of crew on some vessels coupled with the prohibitive cost of current cloning technology makes this option unavailable or undesireable to many.
Good observations. I have authority to hire and train all of my crews, as well. On my vessels every crewman is required to undergo a training course as well as regular drills, should they fail in either or have their performance degrade then they will be taken under consideration for dismissal from my service. Among these:
1. Fire: Every crewman is instructed in firefighting in case it becomes necessary to save the ship from an imminent conflagration.
2. Vac suit operation: a given, in case they have to evacuate the ship by that method, or be in a situation that calls for vacuum conditions. Training is in use, maneuvering, and patch use to repair quickly.
3. Damage Control
4. Redundancy: every crewman is expected to know his/her job and that of their mate GÇô as casualties from combat, other circumstances, or accidents can cause serious manpower problems. This is not such a problem on a Gallente ship due to its automation, but they are trained in this nonetheless.
I have taken part in these drills with my crewmen, as well, to the best of my limited ability to do so in person. My vessels are working ships, and as its commanding officer and capsuleer I do not ask that of my crewmen what I would not undertake myself. There is also often a security detail aboard many of my vessels, when force of arms is needed onboard (for whatever reason.) Often the weapons that are employed are flechette-firing shotguns and low-velocity, heavy-caliber slugthrowers.
Nothing Personal - Just Business...
Chaos Creates Content |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
633
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 11:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:As we are nearly all mass-murderers I find more than a rudimentary concern for such things ironic to the highest degree. You are an incredibly hard person! It's so impressive how cool you are! Your fans will love you for it!
On the topic of this thread, all my crew members are volunteers, they all know the risks, I ensure safety procedures like escape pods being in excellent condition. I also am utilizing a condolence service that sends condolence letters to families in case of ship loss, and transfers wages earned that way as well.
The most effective method to increase crew safety I found, though, is to avoid "fun" or "suicide" engagements in anything but frigates. Easier for me, as I fight for a purpose. People who fight for no purpose will find this very difficult.
|
|
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 14:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:As we are nearly all mass-murderers I find more than a rudimentary concern for such things ironic to the highest degree. You are an incredibly hard person! It's so impressive how cool you are! Your fans will love you for it! On the topic of this thread, all my crew members are volunteers, they all know the risks, I ensure safety procedures like escape pods being in excellent condition. I also am utilizing a condolence service that sends condolence letters to families in case of ship loss, and transfers wages earned that way as well. The most effective method to increase crew safety I found, though, is to avoid "fun" or "suicide" engagements in anything but frigates. Easier for me, as I fight for a purpose. People who fight for no purpose will find this very difficult.
Concern for your own crew does not discount what I'm sure are thousands of individuals exploded via your weapons, and the numerous orphans and grieving spouses caused by your actions.
It is important we come to terms with such things, one way or another. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
633
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 14:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:It is important we come to terms with such things, one way or another. Indeed. The cool kids on the block come to terms by proclaiming that they only have a "rudimentary concern" left.
Silly people like me come to terms with it by reminding myself that every life is still a life, no matter how many had to die at my hands in this insane universe.
Have you considered purchasing some sun glasses? They'd look good on you. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 14:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:Silas Vitalia wrote:It is important we come to terms with such things, one way or another. Indeed. The cool kids on the block come to terms by proclaiming that they only have a "rudimentary concern" left. Silly people like me come to terms with it by reminding myself that every life is still a life, no matter how many had to die at my hands in this insane universe. Have you considered purchasing some sun glasses? They'd look good on you.
Mr. Sadik that dichotomy between us is at the root of the central issue of the day. Weather we spend our time championing the downtrodden and attempting to use our power to staunch the flow of blood caused by others, or do we recognize and embrace our place in the cosmic food chain and act accordingly. I'd love to discuss this further with you at some point, or of course you can keep talking about eyewear. |
Logan Fyreite
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 16:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote: Mr. Sadik that dichotomy between us is at the root of the central issue of the day. Weather we spend our time championing the downtrodden and attempting to use our power to staunch the flow of blood caused by others, or do we recognize and embrace our place in the cosmic food chain and act accordingly. I'd love to discuss this further with you at some point, or of course you can keep talking about eyewear.
I find myself agreeing with Silas on this matter. It's not just because it has been so long since I've been called a "cool kid," but also because her statements make the most sense.
There is some effort needed to ensure a function ship and crew, and as we all should know, that includes regular combat, firefighting, depressurization, and escape drills. Beyond that, the crews serve their purposes as planned, and when one dies it's not like tens more don't step up in order to become crew in the next ship. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that it is already your responsibility to keep your crew alive?
Were you not already drilling them, and keeping them combat ready? If not then the failure lies with your leadership.
Besides if the life of crew was so poor, it is unlikely we would have crews at all, let alone the legions of crew that seem to flock around the very prospect of flying in capsuleer ships. This gives me the indication that their salaries and death benefits should and likely do take care of their families in the event of their demise. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
633
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 18:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:or do we recognize and embrace our place in the cosmic food chain and act accordingly. We are capsuleers. We pick our place in the food chain - we do not "accept and embrace" what is given to us, we choose. The difference between you and me is that I live with the responsibility that power gives me. You simply rid yourself of that responsibility by arguing that you have to be what you are, that you have to accept the place given to you.
Which is ok. Capsuleers are free to pick their place. You pick yours. What you are doing here, though, is trying to defend your choice by claiming it's stupid to decide differently. It isn't. You are just afraid of realizing that, when you have become a "mass murderer" as you called yourself, it was your personal choice to be fine with that.
But I still think some good shades would fit you well. |
Arkady Vachon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 20:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
There is a phenomenon as old as our races that captains of vessels tend not to think about the crews of the ships that they destroy, to many captains they are not shooting at living people - they are shooting at a starship hull, an unliving thing animated by power reactors and driven on star-hot plasma, that is shooting back at them.
At most, many capsuleers (and i have myself, at times, thought this way in the heat of combat) think of their target as another pod pilot, not a pod pilot and his or her crewmen.
It is a way of dealing with warfare on this scale, one that probably have been with us since our ancient ancestors came through the EVE Gate to this cluster, and reborn with us into the society that we now know. Tanks shoot at tanks, areospace craft shoot at areospace craft, naval vessels shoot at naval vessels, and starships shoot at starships - in every case it is a way of thinking that insulates one's mind and sanity from knowing that I just launched a salvo of anti-ship missiles that will kill a hundred or more people who crew that vessel.
In this regard, then, only the foot soldier knows the true horror of warfare, as they usually see the person they kill - and if the whispers of immortal clone soldeirs coming to the fore are true, even this may become far more cold and impersonal.
As capsuleers, our immortal status means that we will be reborn when we die in combat via a new copy of our cloned body, but I think it distances us farther from just how horrible warfare can be, and with that distance comes a coldness for some in regard for the fates of others, be it the crews of the ships that we fire upon, or the crews of our own vessels. Nothing Personal - Just Business...
Chaos Creates Content |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
935
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
It's impossible to reduce casualties to nil, and the advice so far is good, but I haven't seen an important point: T2 ships. Albeit "inspired" by their original hulls, they are constructed from the ground up for maximum control to the capsuleer, which results in much smaller crews than the pod-retrofitted T1 ships require. Some of them may still die in the inevitable event of your ship's explosion, but it makes the baseline for how many people you have the potential to lose that much lower. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Yoshito Sanders
Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 23:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
I hear there's insurance you can purchase to help alleviate the problems of crew casualties. |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
147
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 13:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
The benefit of living in Sansha space is the endless supply of disposible crew.
They are like soilders, except I do not have to pay them and they do not even flinch when we enter structure.
If the ship goes down, I never see an escape pod. Not one. Now that is dedication!
Maybe Sansha is on to something..... |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 :: [one page] |