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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.25 22:45:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Blane Xero
If suddenly 2 million subscribers subbed up, that would be roughly 40 million US dollars or 30 million euro's (Random ass numbers). With that money CCP would probably just pile on the hardware.
Getting the code to work with said hardward might be a different story. I'd bet we'd have a hard time with playing for a good month or two.
That said, could you imagine the forums? The number of complaints about evil pirates is high as it is ... man, it would be a nightmare.
Guess I'm just of the mindset that 'people suck', and more isn't a good thing by my book.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
CHAOS100
Widowmakers
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Posted - 2009.04.25 23:18:00 -
[32]
CCP's existing system will only work up to a certain point. Their current code is to have 1 server handle X number of systems or a constellation. If there is a heavy load system they place 1 server dedicated to that system. So "adding more hardware" does nothing other than limiting the number of systems on a node. Eve has about 5000 systems not including wormholes, and I doubt that 5000 servers would be a viable solution. I don't think CCP has code to run 2 servers for 1 system, thus its the weakness of their system. If Jita expands to 2500 players, 1 server simply can't handle the load.
They have tried to adapt to this by upgrading hardware which has worked to a certain extent but wont work forever if there are many more people. What would be a more interesting and scalable method would be to have the entire cluster running the entire game environment, utilizing as much processing power from servers as necessary. But I am completely pulling this out of my head, there would be other issues like database, etc.
However in contrast to other people's opinions I would probably like to have a 2nd server. While having politics and such apply to everybody, which is something I like, IMO the current eve universe is too crowded. I preferred it when it was more sparse in 0.0, without having 40 man roaming gangs every 10 jumps all desperate to get on a lone battleship kill.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.25 23:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: CHAOS100
CCP's existing system will only work up to a certain point. Their current code is to have 1 server handle X number of systems or a constellation. If there is a heavy load system they place 1 server dedicated to that system. So "adding more hardware" does nothing other than limiting the number of systems on a node. Eve has about 5000 systems not including wormholes, and I doubt that 5000 servers would be a viable solution. I don't think CCP has code to run 2 servers for 1 system, thus its the weakness of their system. If Jita expands to 2500 players, 1 server simply can't handle the load.
They have tried to adapt to this by upgrading hardware which has worked to a certain extent but wont work forever if there are many more people. What would be a more interesting and scalable method would be to have the entire cluster running the entire game environment, utilizing as much processing power from servers as necessary. But I am completely pulling this out of my head, there would be other issues like database, etc.
However in contrast to other people's opinions I would probably like to have a 2nd server. While having politics and such apply to everybody, which is something I like, IMO the current eve universe is too crowded. I preferred it when it was more sparse in 0.0, without having 40 man roaming gangs every 10 jumps all desperate to get on a lone battleship kill.
They can add more systems. They can add more w-space. They can even add more hisec. But they don't need to add another universe. All that will do is guarantee that the old universe dies, as what new player in his right mind would join the old universe over the newer one?
There are other things which they can do, as well. Mechanics which can be added, which would help to systematically make every system larger and more robust. Sharding is NOT the only option, and is in fact one of the worst.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Taedrin
Gallente
Golden Mechanization Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.04.25 23:47:00 -
[34]
*cough* serenity *cough*
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Sjobba
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Posted - 2009.04.26 01:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CHAOS100
[...]I don't think CCP has code to run 2 servers for 1 system, thus its the weakness of their system. If Jita expands to 2500 players, 1 server simply can't handle the load. [...]
I'm also afraid this is true, although I'm pretty sure they would be able to circumvent this at a hardware level, creating a mini-cluster that would act as a single system server.
(Not that I know this for a fact... but it makes sense. (at the moment :P))
I did read it somewhere (I forget where) that they were working on an auto-balance system that could dynamically allocate resources to where they are needed.
If that included multiple servers working for a single system...
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.26 01:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Blane Xero
If suddenly 2 million subscribers subbed up, that would be roughly 40 million US dollars or 30 million euro's (Random ass numbers). With that money CCP would probably just pile on the hardware.
Getting the code to work with said hardward might be a different story. I'd bet we'd have a hard time with playing for a good month or two.
That said, could you imagine the forums? The number of complaints about evil pirates is high as it is ... man, it would be a nightmare.
Guess I'm just of the mindset that 'people suck', and more isn't a good thing by my book.
This is also true. But considering CCP have worked with (Microsoft?) in testing the scalability of the server hardware and code, i am pretty sure that it wouldn't take over a month to settle down. They'd probably shove a metric arse-ton load of extra systems in too, Considering if 2m people played eve thatd be roughly 230-270 people to a system in todays standards. And that includes wormhole systems in the counting. Else it'd be roughly 350+ people per system assuming people actually spread out into lowsec, nullsec and the corners of highsec with no stations.
______________________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.04.26 02:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sjobba
I read it somewhere that they were working on an auto-balance system that could dynamically allocate resources to where they are needed.
If that included multiple servers working for a single system...
Then everyone will go to jita and the rest of the game will go down 
--------------------------------------------
Quote:
EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Micia
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.26 02:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: CHAOS100
IMO the current eve universe is too crowded. I preferred it when it was more sparse in 0.0, without having 40 man roaming gangs every 10 jumps all desperate to get on a lone battleship kill.
I think that has more to do with ease of movement (jump-clones, jump bridges) and lousy sov mechanics (enabling control over vast swathes of essentially unoccupied territory, but with rapid response capability) than the galaxy being too crowded.
Any introduction of "teleport"-style technology can't help but make it seem so, though. |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.26 02:10:00 -
[39]
I personally feel that the devs shouldn't move to 'more systems', but to make systems larger.
If an individual system was larger, with more things in it and more to do? More planets, asteroids, mysterious locations, etc.
Of course, travel speeds would need adjusted to reflect this. If it took you several minutes to fly across some of the larger systems?
You'd need new mechanics to make systems more reactive to player occupation, too. NPC traffic. More deployable structures. More resources to use and exploit.
I kinda wish for the day when two mid sized corporations fight over a system from within the system. Right now, systems are like pieces on a risk board. Instead of simply adding more pieces, though, they could zoom the scale of things inward instead. Where a large corporation controlling a starsystem, or a massive alliance controlling a constellation, becomes a MAJOR achievement, on par with todays BoB's and Goons controlling multiple regions.
Just my take, and maybe it would require too many changes in mindest and thinking. But I think it might be worth considering, at least.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.26 02:12:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Micia
Originally by: CHAOS100
IMO the current eve universe is too crowded. I preferred it when it was more sparse in 0.0, without having 40 man roaming gangs every 10 jumps all desperate to get on a lone battleship kill.
I think that has more to do with ease of movement (jump-clones, jump bridges) and lousy sov mechanics (enabling control over vast swathes of essentially unoccupied territory, but with rapid response capability) than the galaxy being too crowded.
Any introduction of "teleport"-style technology can't help but make it seem so, though.
That happens in other games, too. EQ used to feel huge, and then they added more and more modes of traveling quickly between locations, until the same game world that felt massive, felt very tiny and cramped.
Star Wars Galaxies faced a similar thing. When most movement was done on foot and you waited 10 minutes for shuttles, the galaxy felt HUGE. Five years later and a half dozen new planets and star systems to play in, and even fewer players, and it feels small and cramped.
Sometimes advancements in technology aren't always a good thing. Without jump clones and warp to zero? EvE might still feel vast ...
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
IsoMetricanTaliac 2
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.26 02:13:00 -
[41]
I doubt there will ever be another server as CCP are trying to run everything on the one server so that it is more fun(?) even though atm even with reinforced nodes the system sometimes struggles big time. Now when you say 2nd server you mean like how TQ & SiSi are right? Where people on one server can't just fly their ships over to where ever and see people that are one the 1st server, OR do you mean having the 2nd server setup to boost the current one? (that would be more of an adding of more nodes wouldn't it?)
Would a 2nd server solve any of the issues the current one has? I doubt it very much as it seems to be more of a restriction on hardware limits than anything else that continues to cause grief to the player base.
It would be great if a 2nd server could magically fix the lag & other issues that so many players in one place can cause & maybe to a point it would, then again there is a big possibility that it wouldn't, & if it was a completely seperate server to the current one the splitting of the player base might not be such a great idea as there would end up being a lack of players on one or the other & that would probably leed to players going else where to get their enjoyment.
Anyway if you want a server where everything is 100 ISK jump on the test server and go for your life, the only problem with the test server is your character will always be behind the one you have on the main server, but there is plenty of fun to be had on SiSi & it is a great place to try out different setups without having to fork out the big ISK. Oh and on there PVP'ing can be very rewarding considering your 100 ISK BS will pay out anything from 50 - 100 mill on insurance when you get it destroyed! 
In a Time When Many Will Seek Death, There Will Always Be Those Like Me Who Won't Mind Helping Them Along Their Way!?! |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.26 02:35:00 -
[42]
Considering there's not another game where 2000 players can all gather in the same area and interact with one another without crashing the server? I think EvE is doing awesome, hahaha ...
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.04.26 02:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Malieus
With the game growing faster than ever before; the store launch, ambulation coming - will subscription rates climb too high?
It just seems probable that another server will be necessary to accomodate so many new players.
If this happens, would we be permitted to transfer characters to that server?
I'd like to hear other thoughts on this.
Current hard and software is expected to hold and perform under a 100k concurrent user load (Info: old devblog). Assuming subscribers/CCU ratio stays the same, it means a growth from 250k accounts to 500k accounts. Given that the first 250k subscribers took ~5 years to acquire, I don't think we'll be breaking the barrier anytime soon. Barring Oprah endorsements.
All that aside, CCP producers have hinted in various interviews throughout the years at the EVE wormhole reopening. Such an event could be hooked in to a "second" server. You take the eve wormhole, the trip takes 24 hours, during DT your data is copied from the EVE galaxy to the Milky Way. For all intent and purposes, it would still be one server.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Valon Heler
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Posted - 2009.04.26 04:34:00 -
[44]
Everyone talks about Jita not being to handle the load.
If I remember correctly, a star recently blew up destroying a planet and everyone on it....
Whats to say this might "accidently" happen when the Gallente test some new toy on the sun in Jita and "Oops.... sorry you guys..."
No more Jita problem
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.26 04:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Valon Heler
Everyone talks about Jita not being to handle the load.
If I remember correctly, a star recently blew up destroying a planet and everyone on it....
Whats to say this might "accidently" happen when the Gallente test some new toy on the sun in Jita and "Oops.... sorry you guys..."
No more Jita problem
Fun idea. But to point out (in case you weren't aware), Jita wasn't made a trade hub by the devs. It was made a hub by the players.
Blow up Jita, and the players will choose a new system and in a month's time the devs will find themselves putting it on IT's own server.
Some players, not you particularly, but some players simply can't understand the depth of player generated content in EvE.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Micia
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.26 05:13:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Fun idea. But to point out (in case you weren't aware), Jita wasn't made a trade hub by the devs. It was made a hub by the players.
Well... yes and no.
Yulai used to the big hub, 'til devs removed the highways.
After that is when Jita evolved. (the next hub)
_______
Should we fall before the dawn,
Say this at our pyre,
"They died Matari warriors,
Their faces to the fire." |
Sjobba
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Posted - 2009.04.26 05:20:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Micia
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Fun idea. But to point out (in case you weren't aware), Jita wasn't made a trade hub by the devs. It was made a hub by the players.
Well... yes and no.
Yulai used to the big hub, 'til devs removed the highways.
After that is when Jita evolved. (the next hub)
That only backs up his point, really.
The devs made the old trade hub, Yulai, an undesirable spot. The players simply migrated to a better location.
The same would happen again if they made Jita undesirable.
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Micia
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.26 07:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sjobba
Originally by: Micia
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Fun idea. But to point out (in case you weren't aware), Jita wasn't made a trade hub by the devs. It was made a hub by the players.
Well... yes and no.
Yulai used to the big hub, 'til devs removed the highways.
After that is when Jita evolved. (the next hub)
That only backs up his point, really.
The devs made the old trade hub, Yulai, an undesirable spot. The players simply migrated to a better location.
The same would happen again if they made Jita undesirable.
Oh sure, I understand that. People are always looking for the min/max situations.
My point was, that devs didn't make Jita the next hub by decision.
_______
Should we fall before the dawn,
Say this at our pyre,
"They died Matari warriors,
Their faces to the fire." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.26 07:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Malieus
With the game growing faster than ever before; the store launch, ambulation coming - will subscription rates climb too high?
It just seems probable that another server will be necessary to accomodate so many new players.
If this happens, would we be permitted to transfer characters to that server?
I'd like to hear other thoughts on this.
Please explain why it would not be more effective to simply add more hardware to TQ
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Star's Dust Industrie
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Posted - 2009.04.26 08:47:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Malieus
With the game growing faster than ever before; the store launch, ambulation coming - will subscription rates climb too high?
It just seems probable that another server will be necessary to accomodate so many new players.
If this happens, would we be permitted to transfer characters to that server?
I'd like to hear other thoughts on this.
With the game growing faster than ever before; the store launch, ambulation coming - will newcomers ever use the search button?
It just seems probable that another server will be necessary to accomodate so many new players.
And this happenned, that we would be permitted to search from that server
I'd like to hear newbie's thoughts on this.
Fetchez la vache !
moar(tm) > soon(tm) \o/
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.04.26 09:40:00 -
[51]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 26/04/2009 09:40:50
ly move corps and alliances to different servers. Congrats! Level 2!
"BUT I DIDN'T LIKE THEM!"
If there was a new server I'd bin my character and go straight over to it, screw my skillpoints.
if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature. |
Droog 1
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Posted - 2009.04.26 09:50:00 -
[52]
No. Because Stackless and Python have made the server we have soooooo much better.
/sarcasm off |
Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.04.26 10:12:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: ForceM
Originally by: Haakelen
No.
what he said
Absolutely
NOT yes, right?
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.04.26 10:13:00 -
[54]
Originally by: CHAOS100
If Jita expands to 2500 players, 1 server simply can't handle the load.
thats when Jita becomes 0.5 (yep, still highsec, but more time to kill stuff before concord shows up) :P
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Lan Staz
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Posted - 2009.04.26 10:46:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Lan Staz on 26/04/2009 10:50:02
Originally by: Some Advisor
Originally by: CHAOS100
If Jita expands to 2500 players, 1 server simply can't handle the load.
thats when Jita becomes 0.5 (yep, still highsec, but more time to kill stuff before concord shows up) :P
Or CCP simply introduce local sales taxes for trade hubs. If the sales tax rate was calculated dynamically based on system popularity then it would prevent the problem of the trade hub simply moving somewhere else, as the tax would follow. Result would probably be lots of small trade hubs with 3% tax, rather than one big one with 15% tax.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:06:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 26/04/2009 11:09:31
Eve already has hundreds of 'servers' they're just in the one game world. Will Eve ever need more ? Yes. More than one game world no (Serenity excluded).
It's rather like asking if the world will need a second internet.
Note that not all that long ago I remember systems choking to death with 120 people in them, now we're more comfortably dealing with 10x that and they game population has only increased by 20%.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Clubs and Diamonds
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:10:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Haakelen
No.
Originally by: Highwind Cid
Originally by: Haakelen
No.
But it begs the questions, just how many clients can the server support while still maintaining "decent" performance.
Fortunately for EVE, its cliche type of crowd isn't very large and works to its own advantage.
I believe though with the rate of growth, seeing how EVE has been doing so since its arrival, technology will keep up.
Originally by: Haakelen
No.
I see what you did thar!
I did what you see thar!
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Hariya
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:17:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Highwind Cid
Originally by: Haakelen
No.
But it begs the questions, just how many clients can the server support while still maintaining "decent" performance..
No it does not.
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Grez
Minmatar
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:38:00 -
[59]
Holy epic failure.
No.
---
Grez: I shot the sheriff
Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Jelena Jinx
Gallente
Northen Breeze
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:56:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Malieus
With the game growing faster than ever before; the store launch, ambulation coming - will subscription rates climb too high?
It just seems probable that another server will be necessary to accomodate so many new players.
If this happens, would we be permitted to transfer characters to that server?
I'd like to hear other thoughts on this.
simple NO will do here
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