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Die Baas
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Posted - 2009.04.29 20:40:00 -
[1]
As a budding aspiring pvp-er I've started reading up on different races' tactics and equipment and fittings.
One thing I can't get clear is why the game designers came up with both Projectile and Hybrid turrets.
I mean, what is the difference?
From my uninformed point of view it seems as if [Autocannons = Blasters] and [Artillery = Railguns] for most intents and purposes.
(barring minor tweaks of course)
Is there a structural, practical difference between the two?
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Mog Carns
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.04.29 20:46:00 -
[2]
It would be too easy for Gallente or Caldari pilots to crosstrain garbagepail kids ships if they all used the same guns, and then Amarr would whine they have an unfair disadvantage.
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lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.29 20:57:00 -
[3]
One of the main differances is that projectiles are capless, while hybrids are not.
One of the main simularities is that lasers are better than both.
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Zackaryel
Echolalia.
Shangri-La.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 21:11:00 -
[4]
From my POV
Projectiles : Low optimal, large fall-off, good tracking, low+ damage
Hybrid : Average optimal, average fall-off, average tracking, great damage
Lasers : Great optimal, low fall-off, poor tracking, nice damage
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Zackaryel
http://zackaryel.mybrute.com |
Elora Danzik
Caldari
Idiots In Spaceships
Psychotic Tendencies.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 21:23:00 -
[5]
Or Historically,
Caldari and Gallente exsisted in the same system. Therefore similar weapon systems.
Ammar were the first in space so they developed the high power stuff.
Mini were slaves. Broke and not very technicaly they adapted convention firearms for space.
Caldari developed missile flight in space thus the primacy of missiles in caldari warefare.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2009.04.29 22:10:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Die Baas
From my uninformed point of view it seems as if [Autocannons = Blasters] and [Artillery = Railguns] for most intents and purposes.
(barring minor tweaks of course)
Is there a structural, practical difference between the two?
Every weapon system have a long range and a short range version.
That's where much of the similarities end though. Every weapon system has it's own unique form and focus. Balance always changes and from time to time different systems fall out in terms of balance. Turrets overall are balanced between damage per second, volley damage, optimal range, falloff range and tracking. Secondary traits also involve fitting options (cost of mounting the weapon) and capacitor or ammunition usage (these can affect certain situations, but often play a trivial part in most engagements; eg., even if your weapons can fire without cap, you are usually in a bad position without it). While all systems have a long and short range version, all these different weapons have different balances between all mentioned stats.
The easiest way to learn is simply to read the guides (so you understand terms like tracking and falloff), use the market tab and look at their stats, fire up EFT and play around with the numbers and later on talk to people and analyze trends.
Short said, each weapon system is unique and alot of players crosstrain into several of them to obtain options.
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Recon Three
181st Legion
Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.04.29 22:17:00 -
[7]
Hybrids go "PASHEW"
Projectiles go "RATTA TAT TAT".
_____
Originally by: Tara'Quoya Rax
Minmatar don't tank, Minmatar dodge.
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BoB sucks
Burning Bush Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.04.29 22:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Recon Three
Hybrids go "PASHEW"
Projectiles go "RATTA TAT TAT".
Thank you for that valuable insight....
From my experience, Rails are better than artillary unless you are one volleying people.
Autocannons are better than blasters due to larger falloff... you have to get right on top of somebody, with very low transversal to get Blasters to work, while that other person deperatly tries to avoid that. Autocannons are much more forgiving, and have a much larger range/transversal band to operate in.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.29 23:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Recon Three
Hybrids go "PASHEW"
Projectiles go "RATTA TAT TAT".
This guy's got it down pat.
Blasters: Large damage, tracking problems, short range
Autocannons: Weak damage, poor range
Railguns: Good range, weakish damage
Artillery: Poor range, weak damage
Take your pick.
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HrunTheBarbarian
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Posted - 2009.04.30 02:03:00 -
[10]
This is one way you could look at it for the short range versions of these guns at least.
Blasters have sort range, but high damage and do a good damage spread that theoretically should work well against both armour and shields. They are a solid choice for close range damage, and (at least should with better tracking) do their job very well against anything. The cost of being specialised at one thing is 0 ability to do long range encounters, some use of cap, and the absolute necessity of properly tackling your opponent
Auto Cannons have short optimal but long fall off, do good damage at close range but have the ability to hit further out. They have a damage type that can be somewhat adapted to take on both armour and shield, but tend to be better against armour. What Auto cannons lack in specialisation they make up in versatility.
They are not (or at least shouldn't IMO) as solid as blasters at close range and they wont do as much damage at long range as lasers, but they have a better tracking stat than lasers, hit further than blasters, have some damage type selection, and are they only turret based weapon to have 0 cap use, so you can keep them going even if you are neuted to hell and help keep precious cap spare to run your other modules. Not to forget that they are generally easier to fit.
It's design focus vs. versatility
I would say that unless your ship fit is focused or is heavily bonused towards a certain range/target/... then projectiles are probably the guns to go for as they'll fit easier and keep your ship going for longer plus giving you some range/speed leeway.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.30 02:27:00 -
[11]
Blasters (close range hybrid turrets) are the damage kings of EVE. Kin/Therm for a balanced on both shields/armor, the best tracking of all the turrets (I know, isn't it wild?!) but the shortest range of all three.
Autocannons (the close range projectile turrets) are probably the most versatile. RF EMP for short range, Hail for great explosive damage on practically motionless targets and barrage for outside of web range. On top of this, they have the 2nd best tracking and do not consume any cap to fire. The tradeoff is low DPS, and mostly explosive heavy damage (great on armor, bad on shields)
Of rails and artillery, longer range, crippling tracking issues and low DPS is shared between both of them. Generally, most PvP ships focus on the short range weaponry and only use long range guns for specific roles (sniping)
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Die Baas
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Posted - 2009.05.01 10:22:00 -
[12]
Reading through all of this the only 'structural' dissimilarity between the two is the fact that Hybrids use cap and Projectiles not.
And ofc the RATATATTAT vs PASHEW which made a lot of sense to me 
Other than that I guess there are some minor tweaks in damage vs falloff etc.
Being a minmatar myself I'll probably not (yet) crosstrain to hybrids and go for autocannons in the meantime...
Thanks for all the info |
Kovaric
Gallente
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2009.05.01 17:18:00 -
[13]
Don't cross train into a weapon type your ships don't get bonuses for. I.E. The Incursus gallente frigate gets hybrid turret damage and tracking bonuses. If you fit projectile turrets on it, you lose that damage/tracking bonus, which is significant.
The caveat to this maxim is that some ships don't have a weapon system bonus, or only part of their payload is bonused, so you can get away with cross training. I.e. Some ships have both missile and gun hardpoints, but only give bonuses to the missiles or the guns. Throw whatever weapon system you want into the unbonused leftover high slots. Or ships like the Gallente Myrmidon have drone bonuses instead of weapon bonuses, so throw whatever you want for turrets into the high slots....
Independant Trader |
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:29:00 -
[14]
Lasers have the highest DPS at optimal range but with a very sharp falloff, which makes them the choice of PvP.
Projectiles are medium DPS at optimal with a huge falloff, so they do well all the way out to max range. They are the kings of first strikes in PvP.
Hybrids are kind of all around average.
Missiles do full damage over there entire long range, but are very low DPS and not favored in PvP.
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Die Baas
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Posted - 2009.05.02 15:57:00 -
[15]
Here's something else I didn't notice before.
The hybrid ammo types seems to only deal kinetic & thermal damage.
Projectile ammo types give a wide variety of combinations of EM/kin/therm/expl damage.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.05.02 22:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Die Baas
Here's something else I didn't notice before.
The hybrid ammo types seems to only deal kinetic & thermal damage.
Projectile ammo types give a wide variety of combinations of EM/kin/therm/expl damage.
There's only 2 types of ammo : EMP and PP. Barrage if you use AC tech2, and tremor for arty tech2.
PVE you might sometimes get better results with fusion, but thats mainly vs angels.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.05.03 01:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Max Hardcase
Originally by: Die Baas
Here's something else I didn't notice before.
The hybrid ammo types seems to only deal kinetic & thermal damage.
Projectile ammo types give a wide variety of combinations of EM/kin/therm/expl damage.
There's only 2 types of ammo : EMP and PP. Barrage if you use AC tech2, and tremor for arty tech2.
PVE you might sometimes get better results with fusion, but thats mainly vs angels.
FUSIOn is better than EMP against most targets on PVP as well because half em half explosive ( resultign in pathetic against both shield and armor) is not efficient. Wish Fusion was the top base damage ammo :(
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.05.03 02:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zackaryel
From my POV
Projectiles : Low optimal, large fall-off, good tracking, High Alpha, Low rate of fire
Hybrid : Great optimal, average fall-off, average tracking, meh damage
Lasers : Average optimal, low fall-off, poor tracking, good damage
wait wut..
fixed
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