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Caldera Hybornea
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Posted - 2009.04.30 01:32:00 -
[1]
I did the math on these and it's no more than 1875 isk to produce one, and that's buying the other reactions off the market.
Given that there are unfilled market orders for over 1 million units in Jita at 13K or higher, why is someone not stepping up to the plate and making an easy 600%+ return on these?
Granted you need a <0.4 sec POS but still...
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Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2009.04.30 01:54:00 -
[2]
supply and demand
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Caldera Hybornea
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Posted - 2009.04.30 02:04:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Caldera Hybornea on 30/04/2009 02:04:51
True, but demand is high enough that it should bring more producers to market, driving prices closer to the cost of production.
There is already 1 million of these sitting in 2 sell orders that will never be triggered. I suppose it could be a foolish speculator who didn't know what they were doing, but am I missing a cost here?
Seems the cost of running a large tower POS would easily be covered by hypersynaptic fiber profits and it's getting me anxious to move to null sec a little earlier than I planned if its really that profitable
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Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.04.30 03:31:00 -
[4]
Hypersynaptic Fibers Reaction requires, at Jita prices:
100x Solerium @ 1,850
100x Dysporite @ 105,500
100x Vanadium Hafnite @ 1,850
1x Reaction @ 4,500,000
Total: 15,420,000
Yields: 750 Hypersynaptic Fibers
Cost per unit: 20,560
They currently sell for 5000 under the cost to produce them.
Hope this clears up your misconception.
It's a real shame these items can't be reprocessed in some fashion.
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Lord Karrack
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Posted - 2009.04.30 03:33:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Lord Karrack on 30/04/2009 03:33:12
i think you failed in your maths. you get 750 Hypersynaptic Fibres per 100 dysporite.....at 100k (last time i checked) you get 13.3k per fibre and thats not includign the other parts or any other costs involved.
crap i got beaten
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.04.30 03:34:00 -
[6]
Seems a bit off. At jita sell order prices 100 dysporite is 10.6 million. You need that to produce 750 fibers. Which gives you a cost of 14,133 per unit just in dysporite. Assuming ice you mine is free and the other two moon materials are harvested with a free POSes fueled with free ice transported in free ships by free pilots you're looking at a profit margin of 1% if you sell to buy orders.
Subtract broker fees and taxes and you'd be losing a huge chunk of change doing this compared to simply buying dysporite at buy orders and re-listing them as sell orders and skipping the manufacturing step completely. That is if your strategy is based on purchase through buy order and sell through sell order.
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Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.04.30 03:41:00 -
[7]
Thought I'd just toss this out there too, most the components also are sold at a loss, compared to the value of their base moon cheese.
And even then, many moon mining operations aren't profitable unless they are on r32 moons, unless the cost of he fuel can somehow be written off because the moon serves some other purpose.
And on top of that, all sorts of chumps sell their t2 products at or slightly under production cost, since the minerals were free! and the datacores were free!
All in all, the ones turning profit on everything related to the t2 world are the ones sitting on r64 moons.
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Vulpes Ignis
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Posted - 2009.04.30 03:58:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Vulpes Ignis on 30/04/2009 04:05:57
Edited by: Vulpes Ignis on 30/04/2009 04:01:22
Wow, I'm completely amazed at the math everyone has come up with... Hypersynaptic Fibers can be produced at a profit all in well, until you factor in POS fueling cost. then the profit barely covers the operation.
I plug all my prices into a spread sheet and do these calculations everyday.
Edit- Clair Bear, im also surprised that you said "ice was free" hasn't MD taught you anything lol
by my calculations from the last time I updated prices,
Hypersynaptic Fibers
cost of reactants / hour $10,972,580.00
price per unit $15,182.95
reactive revenue / hour - $11,387,212.50
profit per reaction/ hour - $414,632.50
^^ / day - $9,951,180.00
^^ / week --$69,658,260.00
Pos cost / week -- anywhere from 38mill to 49 mill with a POS service
actual profit / week 20mil--ish
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Caldera Hybornea
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Posted - 2009.04.30 04:42:00 -
[9]
Thank you for the clarification on reactions. For some reason I thought it was like using a BPO, but actually its like using an expensive BPC.
So I assume the person who sold to buy orders down to 13k was just dumping for quick isk?
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.04.30 04:45:00 -
[10]
I've come up with an optimization. Instead of fueling the POS with free ice, get free ISK from ratting in 0.0. Assuming 20 million/hour of free ISK and 2 hours a day of ratting minus 4M to buy the ice instead of mining it's possible to compete selling the fibers below 10k/pu! Awesome! Huge profit for all! Everyone should do this.
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Majiir Paktu
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.30 04:52:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Caldera Hybornea
Thank you for the clarification on reactions. For some reason I thought it was like using a BPO, but actually its like using an expensive BPC.
Since when? Is this a recent change? For as long as I've done reactions, it's been a one-time purchase. The same reaction can be switched out and used over and over.
Majiir Paktu [NCIC] |
Caldera Hybornea
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Posted - 2009.04.30 04:53:00 -
[12]
So if you aren't getting a side benefit from having the POS, this line of business is less profitable than running level 4 missions?
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Caldera Hybornea
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Posted - 2009.04.30 04:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Majiir Paktu
Originally by: Caldera Hybornea
Thank you for the clarification on reactions. For some reason I thought it was like using a BPO, but actually its like using an expensive BPC.
Since when? Is this a recent change? For as long as I've done reactions, it's been a one-time purchase. The same reaction can be switched out and used over and over.
Its what Sir Elliot said
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Vulpes Ignis
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2009.04.30 05:15:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Vulpes Ignis on 30/04/2009 05:23:07
Originally by: Caldera Hybornea
So if you aren't getting a side benefit from having the POS, this line of business is less profitable than running level 4 missions?
a POS doesnt have to be man'd 24/7 to run the reactions. a reaction POS is something you do while you run your level 4 missions, which is profitable stand alone as long as you keep up with the market flux (which btw happens alot in the reaction markets)
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Majiir Paktu
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.30 20:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Caldera Hybornea
Its what Sir Elliot said
I'm saying that Sir Elliot is wrong. The reaction is not consumed in the process.
Reactions are certainly profitable; make a spreadsheet and see for yourself. Factor in hourly fuel costs and assume that a large tower can either run a single complex reaction or two simple reactions. No, not every reaction will make you rich, but that doesn't mean the market is dead.
Majiir Paktu [NCIC] |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.04.30 21:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sir Elliot
Thought I'd just toss this out there too, most the components also are sold at a loss, compared to the value of their base moon cheese.
And even then, many moon mining operations aren't profitable unless they are on r32 moons, unless the cost of he fuel can somehow be written off because the moon serves some other purpose.
And on top of that, all sorts of chumps sell their t2 products at or slightly under production cost, since the minerals were free! and the datacores were free!
All in all, the ones turning profit on everything related to the t2 world are the ones sitting on r64 moons.
Actually there are right now, a number of R16 reactions making profit. |
ChiTrade
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Posted - 2009.05.01 05:18:00 -
[17]
posting to say I turned 5b into 25b in 6 months doing pos reactions; they are profitable, but you gotta work on them more than you realise
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