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BlackDragonShadow
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.30 19:03:00 -
[1]
Excuse me for being ignorant on this subject but I just read an article talking about this and I'm kinda confused. Isn't it beneficial to have more people in your population? Generally speaking? I mean if we opened up the borders of Mexico to people that spoke English and could pass a history test on the US do you think we'd still see people risking they're lives to cross a desert and border patrol to make it into the US? Or is there something I'm missing that makes immigration a bad thing?
Touched by his noodly appendage.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster |
Nar Shear
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Posted - 2009.04.30 19:12:00 -
[2]
drugs, idiots, jobs
+
supply and demand
=
NOT VACANT
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.30 19:25:00 -
[3]
What you are talking about are Mexican citizens who apply for citizenship by legal means, and we're cool with them.
Its the Drug running, convicted murderers, gang members, those who attain fake SSC's and live off our welfare without paying taxes, and the loss of jobs for current citizens because of companies willing to pay under the table cheap as dirt wages to those who cross that people get up in arms about.
Where I live we are a majority of agriculture business, farms and ranches. And in some towns we actually have more illegal Mexicans than actual citizens but in many cases nothing is said about them because they actually try to keep a low profile and make an honest living in which I'm actually am cool with those guys, even if they did enter illegally.
Although this does put them at a disadvantage where they almost live a life of servitude, because if they step out of line some one just has to put in a word to the local authorities and off ye go back to the border. And because of that Ranch owners tend to make them do unscrupulous things where they really don't have a say in the matter. One case in point is about a year back a friends cousin got beat up by a group of them because she stopped dating a ranch owners son (bad break up or something). But she did leave several of them walking away with some mighty nasty knife wounds that they would have to stitch up themselves.
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Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.04.30 20:04:00 -
[4]
The mexican government's attitude towards the situation doesn't help any, either.
Also, having migrants living 25 to the appartment generates a demand for those delicious slums we all love to have in our cities.
In before Ralara. |
goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.30 20:09:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Excuse me for being ignorant on this subject but I just read an article talking about this and I'm kinda confused. Isn't it beneficial to have more people in your population? Generally speaking? I mean if we opened up the borders of Mexico to people that spoke English and could pass a history test on the US do you think we'd still see people risking they're lives to cross a desert and border patrol to make it into the US? Or is there something I'm missing that makes immigration a bad thing?
What your missing is the difference between immigration and illegal immigration.
Atm there is a process, a door if you will, to get into this country, the soon to be immigrant knocks, takes a test and if he/she passes he/she can come into the the American house.
Illegal immigration is when an immigrant, for whatever reason doesnt want to get in through the front door, goes in through a window.
There are several reasons why illegal immigration is bad, and few why its good(the people at the top of business can make more money with low cost labor).
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.30 20:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: goodby4u
What your missing is the difference between immigration and illegal immigration.
Atm there is a process, a door if you will, to get into this country, the soon to be immigrant knocks, takes a test and if he/she passes he/she can come into the the American house.
Illegal immigration is when an immigrant, for whatever reason doesnt want to get in through the front door, goes in through a window.
There are several reasons why illegal immigration is bad, and few why its good(the people at the top of business can make more money with low cost labor).
The reason that escapes you is that it is difficult for people from south of the border to get citizenship quickly. It is easy to come into our country illegally and easy to get a job that pays more.
This "problem" will not go away until quality of life is better in Mexico and companies in the US are held accountable.
I put problem in quotes because I don't care about Mexican's (or anybody else) coming into our country illegally. I don't mind paying higher taxes to benefit people that are less fortunate than myself.
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This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Onus Mian
Amarr
Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.30 20:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Onus Mian on 30/04/2009 20:21:58
Does the US have the problem of ethinic minorities inviting their families over on holiday and then dissapearing them inside their communities when their visa has run out? Of course when they do get caught they just claim asylum because their mum in Pakistan doesn't let them stay up after 10pm at weekends and because the system takes so long sort out their case they end up staying in the country indefinately anyway. We've really no idea how many illegal immigrants there are in this country but its safe to say its considerably higher than what the government claims.
I remember hearing about some guy that warned about immigration saying that it would just lead to segregation and breakdown of society. He was attacked for being racist but it turns out he was right. There are places in the UK (As I'm sure there are in the US) which are dominated by ethnic minorities who have just transplanted their way of life to the UK and are just taking advantage of our benefits system while they beat their wives the murder their daughters for refusing an arranged marriage.
Got nothing against immigrants as long as they intergrate into our society and don't become a drain on society. I wish we were more like Australia when it comes to letting people into the UK.
----
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.30 20:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: FOl2TY8
The reason that escapes you is that it is difficult for people from south of the border to get citizenship quickly. It is easy to come into our country illegally and easy to get a job that pays more.
This "problem" will not go away until quality of life is better in Mexico and companies in the US are held accountable.
I put problem in quotes because I don't care about Mexican's (or anybody else) coming into our country illegally. I don't mind paying higher taxes to benefit people that are less fortunate than myself.
That's a simple fix. Extend the border to the Panama Canal, move in a regiment, and declare it a state.
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BlackDragonShadow
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.30 20:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: FOl2TY8
The reason that escapes you is that it is difficult for people from south of the border to get citizenship quickly. It is easy to come into our country illegally and easy to get a job that pays more.
This "problem" will not go away until quality of life is better in Mexico and companies in the US are held accountable.
I put problem in quotes because I don't care about Mexican's (or anybody else) coming into our country illegally. I don't mind paying higher taxes to benefit people that are less fortunate than myself.
That's a simple fix. Extend the border to the Panama Canal, move in a regiment, and declare it a state.
It's a good idea but what would we call it? The 51st state of America would be Mexico-Belize-Guatemala-ElSalvador-Nicaragua-Honduras-CostaRica-Panama state. Maybe we could call it MBGENHCP.
Touched by his noodly appendage.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.30 20:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: FOl2TY8
The reason that escapes you is that it is difficult for people from south of the border to get citizenship quickly. It is easy to come into our country illegally and easy to get a job that pays more.
This "problem" will not go away until quality of life is better in Mexico and companies in the US are held accountable.
I put problem in quotes because I don't care about Mexican's (or anybody else) coming into our country illegally. I don't mind paying higher taxes to benefit people that are less fortunate than myself.
That's a simple fix. Extend the border to the Panama Canal, move in a regiment, and declare it a state.
It's a good idea but what would we call it? The 51st state of America would be Mexico-Belize-Guatemala-ElSalvador-Nicaragua-Honduras-CostaRica-Panama state. Maybe we could call it MBGENHCP.
Nah, just call it the state of Mexico. No need to get techinical really.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.30 22:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: FOl2TY8
The reason that escapes you is that it is difficult for people from south of the border to get citizenship quickly. It is easy to come into our country illegally and easy to get a job that pays more.
This "problem" will not go away until quality of life is better in Mexico and companies in the US are held accountable.
I put problem in quotes because I don't care about Mexican's (or anybody else) coming into our country illegally. I don't mind paying higher taxes to benefit people that are less fortunate than myself.
That's a simple fix. Extend the border to the Panama Canal, move in a regiment, and declare it a state.
It's a good idea but what would we call it? The 51st state of America would be Mexico-Belize-Guatemala-ElSalvador-Nicaragua-Honduras-CostaRica-Panama state. Maybe we could call it MBGENHCP.
Nah, just call it the state of Mexico. No need to get techinical really.
Still, there's a couple states already down there. You put a big state near texas, and they'll throw a hissy. You gotta break it up into a couple smaller states to keep the hot heads from getting state-envy.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.30 23:21:00 -
[12]
Edited by: goodby4u on 30/04/2009 23:22:58
Originally by: FOl2TY8
Originally by: goodby4u
What your missing is the difference between immigration and illegal immigration.
Atm there is a process, a door if you will, to get into this country, the soon to be immigrant knocks, takes a test and if he/she passes he/she can come into the the American house.
Illegal immigration is when an immigrant, for whatever reason doesnt want to get in through the front door, goes in through a window.
There are several reasons why illegal immigration is bad, and few why its good(the people at the top of business can make more money with low cost labor).
The reason that escapes you is that it is difficult for people from south of the border to get citizenship quickly. It is easy to come into our country illegally and easy to get a job that pays more.
This "problem" will not go away until quality of life is better in Mexico and companies in the US are held accountable.
I put problem in quotes because I don't care about Mexican's (or anybody else) coming into our country illegally. I don't mind paying higher taxes to benefit people that are less fortunate than myself.
... Yeah its difficult, so instead of letting everybody and their dog get in without us knowing who they are, streamline the damn process, hire more people that check backgrounds and etc etc... Instead of letting them come in through a window make the door bigger.
I didnt think I needed to weigh the pros and cons of them getting in illegally but appearently I do...
pros:
1:Fruit is cheap,
2:ceos make lots of money with less then minimum wage below
3:some mexicans get to live here.
Cons:
1:Drug runners get in scott free
2:possible terrorists get in scott free
3:their crime and problems are exported here
4:the first act of the new immigrants coming in is breaking the law
5:the ER is overflowing with illegals due to them not being able to ask for ID(which is why they go to the ER for anything, this is indeed developing into a major issue)
6:they take jobs away from americans(not because we cant do those jobs but the businesses are by law required to pay atleast minimum wage therefore citizens are hired less then those that they dont have to pay minimum wage)
7:disease gets in easier(ie an illegal jumps the fence and goes to one of our hospitals and everybody around him get sick)
8:they get exploited for labor.
Those are the ones off the top of my head, fruit doesnt seem very worth it anymore does it? Tbh if their country is going down the ****ter, its their fault and they need to fix it themselves.
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.01 02:26:00 -
[13]
Nobody is taking our jobs. If you want to work for minimum wage or less no one is stopping you.
I say let them all in and give them guns. Screw whitey...
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This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 02:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: FOl2TY8
Nobody is taking our jobs. If you want to work for minimum wage or less no one is stopping you.
I say let them all in and give them guns. Screw whitey...
Either your a troll or an idiot, I say both.
0/10
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mercyonman
Caldari
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.01 03:40:00 -
[15]
opening our boarder to them could cause a pandemic of swine flu
"Boo hoo. Cry some more." - DEV CCP Whisper |
MooKids
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.01 03:42:00 -
[16]
I don't think the US wants to invade and conquer Mexico again anytime soon  .
Besides, the thing that ****es me off sometimes, especially the recent immigration rallies is the attitude of some of these people. They want to be made American citizens, yet at the rallies, they wave Mexican and other countries' flags and use non-English signs demanding their rights.
Maintaining your cultural heritage is one thing, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to wave the proper flag and speak the national language of the country you want to become a citizen in. If I decided one day to move to France and become a citizen, you better believe I would have the decency to learn to speak French and display the French tricolours.
Bring on the flames!
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CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Sanguis Sanies
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.01 05:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Onus Mian
I wish we were more like Australia when it comes to letting people into the UK.
Asking as an Australian, How so? What's your perception of Australian Immigration that makes it seem... "superior" to UK policy.
As with all immigration, each country has the right to control who enters into their country, what a lot of people don't realise is that in many many countries it's actually really easy to get the right type of visa, stay the required length and apply and gain citizenship. There are a few doors to knock and a few hoops to jump through, but all in all if you follow the rules and have a skillset that's needed then it's very easy to become a citizen.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.05.01 05:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: FOl2TY8
The reason that escapes you is that it is difficult for people from south of the border to get citizenship quickly. It is easy to come into our country illegally and easy to get a job that pays more.
This "problem" will not go away until quality of life is better in Mexico and companies in the US are held accountable.
I put problem in quotes because I don't care about Mexican's (or anybody else) coming into our country illegally. I don't mind paying higher taxes to benefit people that are less fortunate than myself.
That's a simple fix. Extend the border to the Panama Canal, move in a regiment, and declare it a state.
Given the current situation with the drug wars, the corruption that makes illinois look like a canidate for sainthood and the poverty issue oh and that annoying little thing called the swine flu I dont think it would be that simple of a fix. Not to mention America seems to have developed an alergy to "colonial expansion"(assuming thats the right term), at most Mexico would become a territory, technically a part of the U.S. but doesnt have the rank of statehood such as Puerto Rico or Guam and thus wouldnt have to pay taxes, which currently would seem to me to be more of a drain on the countries resources.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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BlackDragonShadow
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.01 06:09:00 -
[19]
Originally by: MooKids
I don't think the US wants to invade and conquer Mexico again anytime soon .
Besides, the thing that ****es me off sometimes, especially the recent immigration rallies is the attitude of some of these people. They want to be made American citizens, yet at the rallies, they wave Mexican and other countries' flags and use non-English signs demanding their rights.
Maintaining your cultural heritage is one thing, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to wave the proper flag and speak the national language of the country you want to become a citizen in. If I decided one day to move to France and become a citizen, you better believe I would have the decency to learn to speak French and display the French tricolours.
Bring on the flames!
Ok well first off damnit they got smart
And secondly America doesn't have a national language. Technically speaking English is just a by product of being originally from England. Senators have been pushing for a legalization of English as a national language for some time but it never goes through. Which I think is a blessing and a curse because hey I'm American and I don't want to learn another language like all those OTHER crazy countries. But at the same time it allows us to be flexible. And I think that's one of the strong suits of American is that we're pretty flexible (At least when you compare our history to other countries) but then again there is always the counter argument that China and Rome were very inflexible and have lasted for hundreds of years. So who knows?
Touched by his noodly appendage.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster |
goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 06:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Originally by: MooKids
I don't think the US wants to invade and conquer Mexico again anytime soon .
Besides, the thing that ****es me off sometimes, especially the recent immigration rallies is the attitude of some of these people. They want to be made American citizens, yet at the rallies, they wave Mexican and other countries' flags and use non-English signs demanding their rights.
Maintaining your cultural heritage is one thing, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to wave the proper flag and speak the national language of the country you want to become a citizen in. If I decided one day to move to France and become a citizen, you better believe I would have the decency to learn to speak French and display the French tricolours.
Bring on the flames!
Ok well first off damnit they got smart
And secondly America doesn't have a national language. Technically speaking English is just a by product of being originally from England. Senators have been pushing for a legalization of English as a national language for some time but it never goes through. Which I think is a blessing and a curse because hey I'm American and I don't want to learn another language like all those OTHER crazy countries. But at the same time it allows us to be flexible. And I think that's one of the strong suits of American is that we're pretty flexible (At least when you compare our history to other countries) but then again there is always the counter argument that China and Rome were very inflexible and have lasted for hundreds of years. So who knows?
I have always held the belief that if you go to some different country, you must learn their language no matter who you are... You need to respect their culture.
I understand that there isnt a national language but seriously, its freaking annoying when you drive up to a mcdonalds or a cheap resturant and you cant understand what the guy is saying, I mean throw me a bone here.
I am indeed for nationalising our language but in that same breath that doesnt mean people have to speak our language, that means they have to be able to speak our language and that is the language they use in business, government, military etc... I think it is fair enough.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.05.01 06:24:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jacob Mei on 01/05/2009 06:26:28
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Originally by: MooKids
I don't think the US wants to invade and conquer Mexico again anytime soon .
Besides, the thing that ****es me off sometimes, especially the recent immigration rallies is the attitude of some of these people. They want to be made American citizens, yet at the rallies, they wave Mexican and other countries' flags and use non-English signs demanding their rights.
Maintaining your cultural heritage is one thing, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to wave the proper flag and speak the national language of the country you want to become a citizen in. If I decided one day to move to France and become a citizen, you better believe I would have the decency to learn to speak French and display the French tricolours.
Bring on the flames!
Ok well first off damnit they got smart
And secondly America doesn't have a national language. Technically speaking English is just a by product of being originally from England. Senators have been pushing for a legalization of English as a national language for some time but it never goes through. Which I think is a blessing and a curse because hey I'm American and I don't want to learn another language like all those OTHER crazy countries. But at the same time it allows us to be flexible. And I think that's one of the strong suits of American is that we're pretty flexible (At least when you compare our history to other countries) but then again there is always the counter argument that China and Rome were very inflexible and have lasted for hundreds of years. So who knows?
Id argue your half right. Yes America doesnt have a language reconized at the federal level but at the state level its a diffrent story in that each state can choose what language, if any, is offically reconized. For an example, states like Illinois and California, the offical language is English where as Texas has no offical language.
Its really a matter of practicality or formality when it comes to offical documentation (such as tax forms) and the like, though in practice all of these documents are already in english.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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BlackDragonShadow
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.01 06:27:00 -
[22]
Quote:
but in that same breath that doesnt mean people have to speak our language, that means they have to be able to speak our language
Wait wut?
Touched by his noodly appendage.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster |
BlackDragonShadow
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.01 06:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Edited by: Jacob Mei on 01/05/2009 06:26:28
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Originally by: MooKids
I don't think the US wants to invade and conquer Mexico again anytime soon .
Besides, the thing that ****es me off sometimes, especially the recent immigration rallies is the attitude of some of these people. They want to be made American citizens, yet at the rallies, they wave Mexican and other countries' flags and use non-English signs demanding their rights.
Maintaining your cultural heritage is one thing, but if you want to be part of this country, you need to wave the proper flag and speak the national language of the country you want to become a citizen in. If I decided one day to move to France and become a citizen, you better believe I would have the decency to learn to speak French and display the French tricolours.
Bring on the flames!
Ok well first off damnit they got smart
And secondly America doesn't have a national language. Technically speaking English is just a by product of being originally from England. Senators have been pushing for a legalization of English as a national language for some time but it never goes through. Which I think is a blessing and a curse because hey I'm American and I don't want to learn another language like all those OTHER crazy countries. But at the same time it allows us to be flexible. And I think that's one of the strong suits of American is that we're pretty flexible (At least when you compare our history to other countries) but then again there is always the counter argument that China and Rome were very inflexible and have lasted for hundreds of years. So who knows?
Id argue your half right. Yes America doesnt have a language reconized at the federal level but at the state level its a diffrent story in that each state can choose what language, if any, is offically reconized. For an example, states like Illinois and California, the offical language is English where as Texas has no offical language.
Its really a matter of practicality or formality when it comes to offical documentation (such as tax forms) and the like, though in practice all of these documents are already in english.
You know I had to look up your facts because I honestly didn't believe them but you are absolutely right and I didn't even think about that. I.E. God damnit you're right.
Also as perhaps a post script I've always liked your toons name because it's my name too. :)
Touched by his noodly appendage.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.05.01 06:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Quote:
but in that same breath that doesnt mean people have to speak our language, that means they have to be able to speak our language
Wait wut?
I think he means people dont have to be forced to speak english if in america (ie thats their defacto language) but they have to be able to speak it if they want to live here (as a secondary language).
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 06:53:00 -
[25]
Edited by: goodby4u on 01/05/2009 06:55:47
Edited by: goodby4u on 01/05/2009 06:54:28
Edited by: goodby4u on 01/05/2009 06:53:49
Originally by: BlackDragonShadow
Quote:
but in that same breath that doesnt mean people have to speak our language, that means they have to be able to speak our language
Wait wut?
People living in America should be able to speak our language, they do have the freedom to speak whatever they want but when it comes to business/government/military or anything along those lines, they must speak english.
Another words, if you have a german speaking person walking down the street with another german speaker he is allowed to speaking german if he wants, however, if he is checking me out at the local walmart I want to hear him speak english because I shouldnt have to learn german in a country that speaks primarily english.
(Its noteworthy that I am tired and if you still dont understand its probably my fault).
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CCP Navigator
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Posted - 2009.05.01 09:47:00 -
[26]
Political threads are not permitted in OOPE.
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