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Livewirez
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:12:00 -
[1]
Everyone who's been into Jita lately will no doubt have seen the amount of spam/scammers running through local chat. It's actually almost impossible to speak to anyone in local because of the 'really-clever' players copy posting their scams.
It wastes our time, eats server resources and makes for a poor gameplay experience.
I'd like to put forward a couple of simple suggestions
add a CSPA charge to posting contract links in the market hubs. make it proportional to the value of the contract say 0.1% - it'll stop the 999,999,999 isk scammers dead as it'll hit them for a mil a time. say its advertising fees or something like that.
enforce the written amount of isk in the contract summary - i.e. 999,999,999 isk is nine-hundred million, nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine isk.
add a moderator to the major hubs with the ability to hand out smitings to scammers, do it under the guise of concord or something.
Anyone else agree on this? Would any of our CSM candidates care to comment?
Peace,
LW
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Jones Bones
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:20:00 -
[2]
Contract scams are within the rules of EVE.
Play smart, or lose.
Think of it as intellectual or reading comprehension PvP.
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Go Bucks! |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:29:00 -
[3]
The contracts interface is pretty terrible. I don't know why it can't be the same as the market interface, just with the added ability to view contracts over the whole universe and the ability to toggle different types of contracts quickly.
If you added this then you'd greatly reduce the need for people to be spamming ALL contracts both scam and legitimate in local channels.
Even though 999 contracts would still be a valid scam on this updated contract browser, you're no more likely to fall for it then than you would an overpricing scam on the old market (before it defaulted to the cheapest local buy order.)
Contract spamming in local is the overriding problem. It isn't just scam contracts it's all of them. Fixing the contract browser so it isn't a tedious chore to wade through would mean people would be less likely to take their advertising to local comms. How often do you see market orders being spammed in local? Sometimes, but rarely.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:34:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Jones Bones
Contract scams are within the rules of EVE.
Play smart, or lose.
Think of it as intellectual or reading comprehension PvP.
It's not really scams or scamming that's the problem. It's that because scamming is allowed, and the game mechanics support such a low bar to creating scams, that the sheer amount of scam spamming has made legitimate use impossible/impractical. It has gotten so bad that I wouldn't bother selling anything on a contract any more because the general assumption is that if it's a contract, it's a scam.
The problem is:
* The contract UI is awful and allows terribly misleading information to be presented.
* Unimaginative scammers are simply lemming the FOTM scam of making a contract 1 ISK short of 500 million and advertising it for 50 million.
* There's so many people taking advantage of the fact that they can run a keyboard macro AFK and not have to actually make any effort to scam someone that local in every market hub is now unusable.
I've even seen the contract scams starting to be spammed in systems AROUND market hubs. When the scammers are being pushed out by the spam, you know it's out of control.
In essence, the system is being abused by so many people it threatens its utility for legitimate use, and while scams are allowed, they should not be allowed to destroy the ability to conduct commerce without scamming.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Jones Bones
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:38:00 -
[5]
The true problem is the sheer number of people falling for these scams. I know someone who's made a couple billion in a day just copy and pasting his scam while watching a movie.
If it wasn't so profitable, people wouldn't do it.
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Go Bucks! |
Letava
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
It has gotten so bad that I wouldn't bother selling anything on a contract any more because the general assumption is that if it's a contract, it's a scam.
That's really not the case, contracts are still the best way to do secure sales and this latest FOTM scam hasn't harmed the use of contracts as a legitimate tool as far as I've noticed. The issue is the sheer amount of spam in trade hubs, or at least in Jita local. Jita's always been a busy place, and there's always been a lot of scams in local, but with this latest one local chat is moving literally too fast to click on a contract - often 3 or 4 scams posted every second, with 1 in 30 being legitimate. It makes me wonder how they manage to sell any, but it obviously works or it wouldn't have spread on this scale.
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Livewirez
Caldari
Essence of Decay
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
The problem is:
* The contract UI is awful and allows terribly misleading information to be presented.
* Unimaginative scammers are simply lemming the FOTM scam of making a contract 1 ISK short of 500 million and advertising it for 50 million.
* There's so many people taking advantage of the fact that they can run a keyboard macro AFK and not have to actually make any effort to scam someone that local in every market hub is now unusable.
I agree there - the macro scamming is probably the biggest cause - and have though of a revision to my previous suggestion - could CCP employ a visual check system to post a contract? - i.e. the human readable image system? rather than my previous suggestion of % contract value charges?
Originally by: Jones Bones
Contract scams are within the rules of EVE.
Play smart, or lose.
Think of it as intellectual or reading comprehension PvP.
I agree that it is allowed within the rules and an intellectual form of PVP - you can't run actual PVP from a macro so why should that work in any other gameplay element?
I personally enjoy speaking to people in convo to barter for items - the lost art of haggling - if a scammer beats me in a convo then he's welcome to the isk - I'll just have to resort to aggressive negoations for the refund.... 
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 18:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Letava
Originally by: Jimer Lins
It has gotten so bad that I wouldn't bother selling anything on a contract any more because the general assumption is that if it's a contract, it's a scam.
That's really not the case, contracts are still the best way to do secure sales and this latest FOTM scam hasn't harmed the use of contracts as a legitimate tool as far as I've noticed. The issue is the sheer amount of spam in trade hubs, or at least in Jita local. Jita's always been a busy place, and there's always been a lot of scams in local, but with this latest one local chat is moving literally too fast to click on a contract - often 3 or 4 scams posted every second, with 1 in 30 being legitimate. It makes me wonder how they manage to sell any, but it obviously works or it wouldn't have spread on this scale.
I know that I personally don't bother looking for anything on contracts any more unless it is an item that can ONLY be found on contracts. This is for a number of reasons:
* So many contracts are scams that it's not worth my time to filter them.
* The additional time required to sort the scams from the legit contracts is only something I'll invest if it's an item I cannot get in any other manner.
* Contracts are so suspect that even when I find something that's NOT a scam, I'm still afraid it is, and that I'm going to fall victim to something because the UI hides something from me.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Misanth
The Glenn Quagmire Finishing School for Young Ladies
Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.05.01 19:07:00 -
[9]
Local has really nothing to offer, even if the annoying contract spam would be removed it'd be filled by smack, insults, emorages and whines. Outside lowsec it's mildly entertaining at best, perhaps rare occations in 0.0 provide anything decent but that's not very common.
Apart from the obvious intel-part of it, the most constructive use of local today, bar one, is to sell (or scam) crap. There's a few other roles it fill decently, like having a permacloaked nub spam it with demoralizing info vs hostiles etc.
I can't think of much constructive stuff getting out of local the last couple of years. Good chats? That was maybe in 2007, more likely 2006 and earlier.
Annoying as it can be, it perfectly plays the role it does best today. If you can't stand it, close it tbh. I got mine minimized in Empire most of the time. 
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I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Sator deHarak
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
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Posted - 2009.05.01 19:31:00 -
[10]
The simple solution would be to prevent public contracts from being created by any character less than 7 days old. It'd at least let the block list keep tabs on the most annoying of the macro-scammers, and not impinge upon the more legit non-afk scammers.
Anything more would be impeding on people's freedom of gameplay choice.
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Cyrdax
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.01 19:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Livewirez
add a moderator to the major hubs with the ability to hand out smitings to scammers, do it under the guise of concord or something.
seriously? moderate jita?
---
tv where the horn go, boy can you top that? |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 20:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cyrdax
Originally by: Livewirez
add a moderator to the major hubs with the ability to hand out smitings to scammers, do it under the guise of concord or something.
seriously? moderate jita?
Well... only in moderation?
The only way to "moderate" Jita would be to have a system-wide gag.
Or disable CONCORD for an hour.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.05.01 20:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jones Bones
The true problem is the sheer number of people falling for these scams. I know someone who's made a couple billion in a day just copy and pasting his scam while watching a movie.
If it wasn't so profitable, people wouldn't do it.
This.
One of my friends made 2 billion while watching stargate and posting a scam contract every once in a while. If people would quit buying them then the spammers would knock it off after a few weeks of wasting money on the contract setup fees.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.01 20:23:00 -
[14]
I don't care. Stupid people aren't going to go away, but I'm not going to accept that the amount of noise you bastards make while fleecing the morons is acceptable.
Scam them all you want, just stop being a ****ing annoyance to the rest of us.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Tildes own
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.05.01 21:52:00 -
[15]
I like it, it's like flypaper for stupids.
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Peckles
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.05.01 22:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Or disable CONCORD for an hour.
My god I hope I'm there for it.
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Livewirez
Caldari
Essence of Decay
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Posted - 2009.05.01 23:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Peckles
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Or disable CONCORD for an hour.
My god I hope I'm there for it.
Lol, the first 3 minutes would probably rack up a months worth of lag. Though I must admit seeing the traffic docking ramps it'd be a salvagers dream 
Anyway, I'm glad its not just me that agrees something should be done - the spamming spoils the game, theres gotta be a better way to let people try and swindle each other whilst in keeping with the setting and the tone that i've come to expect from eve.
Hopefully CCP will take note!
Peace,
LW
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Amy Mouse
Intersteller Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.05.01 23:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cyrdax
Originally by: Livewirez
add a moderator to the major hubs with the ability to hand out smitings to scammers, do it under the guise of concord or something.
seriously? moderate jita?
ya, he wants a babysitter to sit and watch him play so he doesnt do anything wrong.
if you dont like local, minimize it. Then use proper contract filters to get what you need.
YOU ARE REALLY STUPID IF YOU GO TO JITA AND EXPECT SCAM FREE LOCAL.
thats why there is trade channels/trade forums. go cry some more please.
i love cookies |
Livewirez
Caldari
Essence of Decay
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Amy Mouse
Originally by: Cyrdax
Originally by: Livewirez
add a moderator to the major hubs with the ability to hand out smitings to scammers, do it under the guise of concord or something.
seriously? moderate jita?
ya, he wants a babysitter to sit and watch him play so he doesnt do anything wrong.
if you dont like local, minimize it. Then use proper contract filters to get what you need.
YOU ARE REALLY STUPID IF YOU GO TO JITA AND EXPECT SCAM FREE LOCAL.
thats why there is trade channels/trade forums. go cry some more please.
You've seen jita lately right???? 
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Kaya Valda
Caldari
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:29:00 -
[20]
Contracts themselves aren't a problem as when you look at contract through the search most people would order them by cheapest first, and therefore won't get scammed. The problem is that people don't see that something that looks too good to be true in Jita local really IS too good to be true. I personally have no problem with this stupidity tax, and see no reason why Eve should be dumbed down to account for idiots. One of Eve's strengths is that it's a game made for intelligent people.
Saying you don't use contracts because of scams just makes you look stupid. Really all you need to do is either read the contract properly, or just not click contract links in local.
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Read My Blog
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Amy Mouse
Intersteller Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Livewirez
Originally by: Amy Mouse
Originally by: Cyrdax
Originally by: Livewirez
add a moderator to the major hubs with the ability to hand out smitings to scammers, do it under the guise of concord or something.
seriously? moderate jita?
ya, he wants a babysitter to sit and watch him play so he doesnt do anything wrong.
if you dont like local, minimize it. Then use proper contract filters to get what you need.
YOU ARE REALLY STUPID IF YOU GO TO JITA AND EXPECT SCAM FREE LOCAL.
thats why there is trade channels/trade forums. go cry some more please.
You've seen jita lately right????
yes, thats why i said minimize it.
you can avoid all that mess, and being annoyed is 100% up to you.
its not like jita's regular "deals" arent even that great.
probably little bit more overpriced then other places, so what is there to miss?
i love cookies |
Feilamya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.02 12:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Amy Mouse
its not like jita's regular "deals" arent even that great.
probably little bit more overpriced then other places, so what is there to miss?
This.
And for all those who still don't get it:
This
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Razzor Death
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.02 13:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
* So many contracts are scams that it's not worth my time to filter them.
* The additional time required to sort the scams from the legit contracts is only something I'll invest if it's an item I cannot get in any other manner.
* Contracts are so suspect that even when I find something that's NOT a scam, I'm still afraid it is, and that I'm going to fall victim to something because the UI hides something from me.
oh snap
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hackzor nstuff
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Posted - 2009.05.03 16:44:00 -
[24]
i posted a simple solution to the matter please sigh it or even post an alternative
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1064036
at this point any response is a good response
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penifSMASH
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.03 16:53:00 -
[25]
here's a simpler solution
don't be a dumb pubbie moron
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Bazman
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.05.03 17:03:00 -
[26]
Who reads Jita local anyway :|
-----
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Agett
Hunerian Science Institute
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.05.03 18:35:00 -
[27]
Easiest solution. Spam blank space.
.
Tada. No more spam, no more talking, just pure blank in Jita. With enough people contracts won't be visible long enough to even click on.
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.05.04 00:32:00 -
[28]
OK, I read some of this before wanting to scratch my eyes out.. Then I read this.
Originally by: penifSMASH
here's a simpler solution
don't be a dumb pubbie moron
Its a sorry state of affairs when a goon posts the best solution. I never thought I'd say this again, but I agree with the goon..
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Cyrdax
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.04 03:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lana Torrin
I never thought I'd say this again, but I agree with the goon..
o.o
---
tv where the horn go, boy can you top that? |
dankness420
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Posted - 2009.05.04 05:27:00 -
[30]
when you open up the contract it says 999,999,999.99 isk. what more do you want? just read the contract
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