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Vigilant	Posted - 2004.09.02 14:59:00 - [1] From what I keep reading... it seems that the following is being used: Carcal Rupture Scorpion Seems missiles are becoming very dominant..since you can keep range on your target and still maintain damage taken from RATS to a minimum.... I use a Carcal myself...have been for sometime...but the trend is moving to "missile heavy ships"...vice a Good Cruiser...which their are several other very nice ones.. (Maller, Thorax, Vexor, MOA, etc.) Just some observations...feel free to discuss/add on...
Vigilant	Posted - 2004.09.02 14:59:00 - [2] From what I keep reading... it seems that the following is being used: Carcal Rupture Scorpion Seems missiles are becoming very dominant..since you can keep range on your target and still maintain damage taken from RATS to a minimum.... I use a Carcal myself...have been for sometime...but the trend is moving to "missile heavy ships"...vice a Good Cruiser...which their are several other very nice ones.. (Maller, Thorax, Vexor, MOA, etc.) Just some observations...feel free to discuss/add on...
obscuroditus	Posted - 2004.09.02 15:06:00 - [3] I recently started some threads about my "Duramaller" design - it did muster quite a few interested people both here and on the EVE-i forum...and is quite capable doing all L3 missions including the dreaded Mordus ...! An uber-tank with good damage output, high speed, and near unlimited cap.
obscuroditus	Posted - 2004.09.02 15:06:00 - [4] I recently started some threads about my "Duramaller" design - it did muster quite a few interested people both here and on the EVE-i forum...and is quite capable doing all L3 missions including the dreaded Mordus ...! An uber-tank with good damage output, high speed, and near unlimited cap.
TekRa	Posted - 2004.09.02 15:34:00 - [5] First time I had the Mordus mission I was in my rupture and actually did quite well, kept at range and took them all out, althought it took quite some time and the loot was scattered over about 300km. Second time I got the mission I wasn't so lucky, I warped to the BM at 60km but the rats were alot closer than that and they quickly got me locked down, warp scrambled and webbed and pretty soon I was dead, despite my best efforts I just couldnt keep the distance I needed. If I'd been able to keep the distance, the outcome would have been different, oh well. I just bought a caracal to complete the mission now, and hopefully get my equipment back :). > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
TekRa	Posted - 2004.09.02 15:34:00 - [6] First time I had the Mordus mission I was in my rupture and actually did quite well, kept at range and took them all out, althought it took quite some time and the loot was scattered over about 300km. Second time I got the mission I wasn't so lucky, I warped to the BM at 60km but the rats were alot closer than that and they quickly got me locked down, warp scrambled and webbed and pretty soon I was dead, despite my best efforts I just couldnt keep the distance I needed. If I'd been able to keep the distance, the outcome would have been different, oh well. I just bought a caracal to complete the mission now, and hopefully get my equipment back :). > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
Kretin Arnon	Posted - 2004.09.02 15:36:00 - [7] obscuroditus is on the right path. I've discovered my small laser weaponry does far more damage to close range frigs and cruisers than my large lasers could ever do even at medium range. I think I'll stop mounting those large turrets and go with a blend of medium and light instead. Collecting the loot is also far more quicker than when it's >50 km away. I use Arma/Apoc btw.
Kretin Arnon	Posted - 2004.09.02 15:36:00 - [8] obscuroditus is on the right path. I've discovered my small laser weaponry does far more damage to close range frigs and cruisers than my large lasers could ever do even at medium range. I think I'll stop mounting those large turrets and go with a blend of medium and light instead. Collecting the loot is also far more quicker than when it's >50 km away. I use Arma/Apoc btw.
Kurtz	Posted - 2004.09.02 19:52:00 - [9] Many folks have opinions on what is the best ship for level 3 missions; I have opinions on the worst. The worst mission ship is the Scorpion. It just simply is not designed for NPC engagements. Sure you can do missions in a Scorpion, it is a battleship after all. It just is not an economical choice. The 8 mid slots donÆt help you to a tremendous advantage, as you cannot ECM the NPC. Sure you can put lots-O-shield tanking on, but is the point to let the NPC pound on you at close range, while you either miss a lot with large weapons, or fit cruiser weapons, and/or shoot lots of expensive missiles, or comically chase them around with the ScorpionÆs glacial speed, and smart bomb them to death. Missions are unique in that they allow you to choose your range to engage. You also have foreknowledge of what you are facing. If you keep a stable of ships, you can select the right ship for the mission. This adds a lot of variety into the missions. As you can test your abilities on the same scenarios with different loads outs and different ships many times. The things that make a good mission ship are: 1)Firepower 2)Speed 3)Secondary weapon systems 4)Cargo All the level 3 cruisers can take on all level 3 kill missions. They are almost all equal in abilities; the Maller uses no ammo, for an extra benefit. The Stabber and Exequror stand out for courier mission ships in the cruiser class, and work best for agents that send you on the odd kill mission. Probe, Vigil, Incursus, Kestral are the mission runners frigates of choice. The Caracal can also perform the level 3 kill missions, it just is not nearly as efficient, as it takes considerable time to missile to death the spawns and the loot tends to be scattered and takes considerable time to pick up. All the battleships can do all level 3 missions; they are just not real quick at the loot retrieval process, as most tactics require long-range engagement. The Megathron setup with Blasters and drones being the expection.
Kurtz	Posted - 2004.09.02 19:52:00 - [10] Many folks have opinions on what is the best ship for level 3 missions; I have opinions on the worst. The worst mission ship is the Scorpion. It just simply is not designed for NPC engagements. Sure you can do missions in a Scorpion, it is a battleship after all. It just is not an economical choice. The 8 mid slots donÆt help you to a tremendous advantage, as you cannot ECM the NPC. Sure you can put lots-O-shield tanking on, but is the point to let the NPC pound on you at close range, while you either miss a lot with large weapons, or fit cruiser weapons, and/or shoot lots of expensive missiles, or comically chase them around with the ScorpionÆs glacial speed, and smart bomb them to death. Missions are unique in that they allow you to choose your range to engage. You also have foreknowledge of what you are facing. If you keep a stable of ships, you can select the right ship for the mission. This adds a lot of variety into the missions. As you can test your abilities on the same scenarios with different loads outs and different ships many times. The things that make a good mission ship are: 1)Firepower 2)Speed 3)Secondary weapon systems 4)Cargo All the level 3 cruisers can take on all level 3 kill missions. They are almost all equal in abilities; the Maller uses no ammo, for an extra benefit. The Stabber and Exequror stand out for courier mission ships in the cruiser class, and work best for agents that send you on the odd kill mission. Probe, Vigil, Incursus, Kestral are the mission runners frigates of choice. The Caracal can also perform the level 3 kill missions, it just is not nearly as efficient, as it takes considerable time to missile to death the spawns and the loot tends to be scattered and takes considerable time to pick up. All the battleships can do all level 3 missions; they are just not real quick at the loot retrieval process, as most tactics require long-range engagement. The Megathron setup with Blasters and drones being the expection.
obscuroditus	Posted - 2004.09.02 21:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Kurtz The Caracal can also perform the level 3 kill missions, it just is not nearly as efficient, as it takes considerable time to missile to death the spawns and the loot tends to be scattered and takes considerable time to pick up. Have you ever actually flown a Caracal in NPC combat? I seriously doubt it. Becase most people that HAVE know that the caracal is high, high in the #3 of best missionrunners. The missiles do some very nice damage when using Kinetics, both to shield and armor, and some named guns mean you spit out heavies at a painfull rate - painfull for your subject that is. They never miss, they have 60+ km range, and they do ****loads of damage. The part about loot spread out can be true, but I usually shieldtank my caracal to the point I can start picking up loot while combatting the cruisers still left over - only with the heftiest spawns I'd consider staying at range. A hardener or two and a small shieldbooster II is all you need - you can outtank 90% of the spawns. there are no other cruisers that have the DOT of the caracal combined with its close-med-longe range effectiveness and 100% hit guarantee - and speed when fitting a 100mn AB. The caracal has it all, it's just a BORING boat to do L3 missions with because it's a bit repetetive.
obscuroditus	Posted - 2004.09.02 21:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Kurtz The Caracal can also perform the level 3 kill missions, it just is not nearly as efficient, as it takes considerable time to missile to death the spawns and the loot tends to be scattered and takes considerable time to pick up. Have you ever actually flown a Caracal in NPC combat? I seriously doubt it. Becase most people that HAVE know that the caracal is high, high in the #3 of best missionrunners. The missiles do some very nice damage when using Kinetics, both to shield and armor, and some named guns mean you spit out heavies at a painfull rate - painfull for your subject that is. They never miss, they have 60+ km range, and they do ****loads of damage. The part about loot spread out can be true, but I usually shieldtank my caracal to the point I can start picking up loot while combatting the cruisers still left over - only with the heftiest spawns I'd consider staying at range. A hardener or two and a small shieldbooster II is all you need - you can outtank 90% of the spawns. there are no other cruisers that have the DOT of the caracal combined with its close-med-longe range effectiveness and 100% hit guarantee - and speed when fitting a 100mn AB. The caracal has it all, it's just a BORING boat to do L3 missions with because it's a bit repetetive.
pardux	Posted - 2004.09.02 21:32:00 - [13] i use a typhoon. i use 4x650mm(can¦t use large projectiles yet)and 4xheavy missiles and have ogres in the drone bay,i tank with 1 large repairer an 3 hardeners+1600mm rolled tungsten. in the midslots i use 3 named cap rechargers and a 100mn mwd, i take the mwd out in the blockade\gone berserk mission, in them i just shoot anything in range and if they go to 20km+ i just use the drones and missiles. I can tank in the blockade mission and just use drones Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
pardux	Posted - 2004.09.02 21:32:00 - [14] i use a typhoon. i use 4x650mm(can¦t use large projectiles yet)and 4xheavy missiles and have ogres in the drone bay,i tank with 1 large repairer an 3 hardeners+1600mm rolled tungsten. in the midslots i use 3 named cap rechargers and a 100mn mwd, i take the mwd out in the blockade\gone berserk mission, in them i just shoot anything in range and if they go to 20km+ i just use the drones and missiles. I can tank in the blockade mission and just use drones Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Infi	Posted - 2004.09.02 22:10:00 - [15] I've been using a Moa since I started doing agent missions. 3 named 250's and a Gauss Dual 150, as well as 2 Arbalest (sp?) heavies. Top of the line med extender and booster, 400mm rolled tungsten. Safe as houses, and could kill anything before it got in range of me. But that set-up isn't very good anymore, not with these Wingmen swooping in faster than I can kill them. Ships get close, I have to warp out and come back in. Of course, the Wingmen won't allow that. And with only 250m of drone bay, those are no help in a Moa. I enjoy long-range sniping, but reality dictates I'll need to adapt. Anyway, the point of all this babble: Don't use a Moa, at least not one with 250's.
Infi	Posted - 2004.09.02 22:10:00 - [16] I've been using a Moa since I started doing agent missions. 3 named 250's and a Gauss Dual 150, as well as 2 Arbalest (sp?) heavies. Top of the line med extender and booster, 400mm rolled tungsten. Safe as houses, and could kill anything before it got in range of me. But that set-up isn't very good anymore, not with these Wingmen swooping in faster than I can kill them. Ships get close, I have to warp out and come back in. Of course, the Wingmen won't allow that. And with only 250m of drone bay, those are no help in a Moa. I enjoy long-range sniping, but reality dictates I'll need to adapt. Anyway, the point of all this babble: Don't use a Moa, at least not one with 250's.
MrRookie	Posted - 2004.09.02 22:28:00 - [17] I do most lvl 3 missions in my Rifter thses days. Its great fun and exiting. The only missions I havent done in it is the Mordus and the blockade. 2 guns and 2 rocketlaunchers :D I even did the mission with the 6 boounty hunter Rookies and 1 Durim. Better be using the head then or the 1 billion missiles following will make me history. You`d be surprised how fast those cruisers go down. Ofc not as fast as in my caracal but the trahvel time and loot picking time for the rifter realy compensates I got bored eventualy by spamming missiles with my caracal. The Moa is good to but I lost it on the Mordus. All in all the caracal is the ultimate mission cruiser. Its easy for n00bs to do the missions with the caracal as well as older players andit doesnt take much skills for doing it either _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
MrRookie	Posted - 2004.09.02 22:28:00 - [18] I do most lvl 3 missions in my Rifter thses days. Its great fun and exiting. The only missions I havent done in it is the Mordus and the blockade. 2 guns and 2 rocketlaunchers :D I even did the mission with the 6 boounty hunter Rookies and 1 Durim. Better be using the head then or the 1 billion missiles following will make me history. You`d be surprised how fast those cruisers go down. Ofc not as fast as in my caracal but the trahvel time and loot picking time for the rifter realy compensates I got bored eventualy by spamming missiles with my caracal. The Moa is good to but I lost it on the Mordus. All in all the caracal is the ultimate mission cruiser. Its easy for n00bs to do the missions with the caracal as well as older players andit doesnt take much skills for doing it either _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
MrRookie	Posted - 2004.09.02 22:32:00 - [19] Btw I just noticed today that the caracal missile velocity bonus is fixed and the misiles goes around 1500-1600 km/s and thats must be the reson I could hit the Mordus wingamn etc _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
MrRookie	Posted - 2004.09.02 22:32:00 - [20] Btw I just noticed today that the caracal missile velocity bonus is fixed and the misiles goes around 1500-1600 km/s and thats must be the reson I could hit the Mordus wingamn etc _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Xinder	Posted - 2004.09.03 02:14:00 - [21] I found the dominix to be a great ship for missions. I use a decent armortank setup, 1 large named repairer and a t2 medium and a couple of hardeners. for most missions the medium one is enough to keep up with any dmg I take. Small or medium lasers for weapons (high tracking, decent dmg and no ammo cost) and 12 wasps. (remaining mid/low slots is for cap regeneneration and a dmg mod and/or webber) I choose to rely on heavy drones since they make short work of most mission rats and seems to be able to track/do dmg to most of the smaller ships aswell. If I face something the drones have trouble with, such as inty's or tough cruisers, my little lasers make short work of them with great tracking and surprisingly good dmg output. oh, and warping in at 15k, just sitting still and tank makes picking up loot alot nicer, specially when facing serpentis, whom mostly use blasters... Maybe not a setup I'd like to use in pvp, but I find it very convinient for missions. If I want a bit more fun/challange I prefer the crusader or punisher.
Xinder	Posted - 2004.09.03 02:14:00 - [22] I found the dominix to be a great ship for missions. I use a decent armortank setup, 1 large named repairer and a t2 medium and a couple of hardeners. for most missions the medium one is enough to keep up with any dmg I take. Small or medium lasers for weapons (high tracking, decent dmg and no ammo cost) and 12 wasps. (remaining mid/low slots is for cap regeneneration and a dmg mod and/or webber) I choose to rely on heavy drones since they make short work of most mission rats and seems to be able to track/do dmg to most of the smaller ships aswell. If I face something the drones have trouble with, such as inty's or tough cruisers, my little lasers make short work of them with great tracking and surprisingly good dmg output. oh, and warping in at 15k, just sitting still and tank makes picking up loot alot nicer, specially when facing serpentis, whom mostly use blasters... Maybe not a setup I'd like to use in pvp, but I find it very convinient for missions. If I want a bit more fun/challange I prefer the crusader or punisher.
JP Beauregard	Posted - 2004.09.03 08:06:00 - [23] Originally by: obscuroditus Have you ever actually flown a Caracal in NPC combat? I seriously doubt it. Becase most people that HAVE know that the caracal is high, high in the #3 of best missionrunners. I seriously doubt that Kurtz would write about anything without first-hand knowledge. And I seriously doubt that the Caracal will beat the Maller in efficiency, and I'm not talking about your favorite loadout either because, frankly, that simply doesn't strike me as top-notch. I'd also add the Omen as the underpowered baby-Maller mission ship to the list of decent vessels for lvl 3 missions. If it hadn't been for the once-cruise-missile-spamming Infernos in the pre-laser beef-up era - and the fact that I got tired of the beaked dachshund design - I'd still be flying one. JP Beauregard === The Pilkington Guides to EVE ===
JP Beauregard	Posted - 2004.09.03 08:06:00 - [24] Originally by: obscuroditus Have you ever actually flown a Caracal in NPC combat? I seriously doubt it. Becase most people that HAVE know that the caracal is high, high in the #3 of best missionrunners. I seriously doubt that Kurtz would write about anything without first-hand knowledge. And I seriously doubt that the Caracal will beat the Maller in efficiency, and I'm not talking about your favorite loadout either because, frankly, that simply doesn't strike me as top-notch. I'd also add the Omen as the underpowered baby-Maller mission ship to the list of decent vessels for lvl 3 missions. If it hadn't been for the once-cruise-missile-spamming Infernos in the pre-laser beef-up era - and the fact that I got tired of the beaked dachshund design - I'd still be flying one. JP Beauregard === The Pilkington Guides to EVE ===
Heelay Ashrum	Posted - 2004.09.03 08:21:00 - [25] Personally i use a MOA ( because have range bonus with hybrids) with 250mm ( named ) and iridium ammos, with MWD and 2 dammage mods in low slots. This way i have 62km fire range. I simply warp off at 60km and keep this distance.
Heelay Ashrum	Posted - 2004.09.03 08:21:00 - [26] Personally i use a MOA ( because have range bonus with hybrids) with 250mm ( named ) and iridium ammos, with MWD and 2 dammage mods in low slots. This way i have 62km fire range. I simply warp off at 60km and keep this distance.
Lusiphur	Posted - 2004.09.03 10:48:00 - [27] I have used the following for level 3 missions (inc kill) Moa Blaster 'rax Raven Crow All have their plus points and downsides. My favourite is definitely the Crow though.
Lusiphur	Posted - 2004.09.03 10:48:00 - [28] I have used the following for level 3 missions (inc kill) Moa Blaster 'rax Raven Crow All have their plus points and downsides. My favourite is definitely the Crow though.
Draco Amaris	Posted - 2004.09.03 11:55:00 - [29] Edited by: Draco Amaris on 03/09/2004 11:57:28 hi there.. I'm using a Caracal for LV3 missions. My setup: 5 * Heavy Missile Launcher 1 * medium armor repairer 1 * ballistic control 1 * mwd 10mn I warp in at 60km and take out all rats i see. Right now i only have seen 110k maybe i'll see some better ones. Getting the loot isn't taking that long because i'm using a mwd. Greetings Draco ======================================= Miner 2.. your best friend ;) =======================================
Draco Amaris	Posted - 2004.09.03 11:55:00 - [30] Edited by: Draco Amaris on 03/09/2004 11:57:28 hi there.. I'm using a Caracal for LV3 missions. My setup: 5 * Heavy Missile Launcher 1 * medium armor repairer 1 * ballistic control 1 * mwd 10mn I warp in at 60km and take out all rats i see. Right now i only have seen 110k maybe i'll see some better ones. Getting the loot isn't taking that long because i'm using a mwd. Greetings Draco ======================================= Miner 2.. your best friend ;) =======================================
NoNamium	Posted - 2004.09.03 15:00:00 - [31] Edited by: NoNamium on 03/09/2004 15:05:01 The apoc is by far the best ship for lvl 3 npc kill-missions. I've tried lots of different ships but this is the best. Fitting: 8x Mega Pulse Lasers with Radio Crystals 2x 100mn MWD 2x Cap Recharger II 3x Cap power Relay I 3x Heat Sink II 1x Medium 'accomadation' Armor Repairer This is a setup for fast transport and easy kills at ranges 50-60km Just keep your distance at this range and you'll be safe. With 2 mwds that should pose no problem. I've never lost my apoc to a mission and I've gone up against the 3x BS spawn in the mission Sabotaged several times now. Oh, and using lasers makes kills free EDIT: I've never used the armor reparier yet, but you never know when CCP decides to juice up the missions
NoNamium	Posted - 2004.09.03 15:00:00 - [32] Edited by: NoNamium on 03/09/2004 15:05:01 The apoc is by far the best ship for lvl 3 npc kill-missions. I've tried lots of different ships but this is the best. Fitting: 8x Mega Pulse Lasers with Radio Crystals 2x 100mn MWD 2x Cap Recharger II 3x Cap power Relay I 3x Heat Sink II 1x Medium 'accomadation' Armor Repairer This is a setup for fast transport and easy kills at ranges 50-60km Just keep your distance at this range and you'll be safe. With 2 mwds that should pose no problem. I've never lost my apoc to a mission and I've gone up against the 3x BS spawn in the mission Sabotaged several times now. Oh, and using lasers makes kills free EDIT: I've never used the armor reparier yet, but you never know when CCP decides to juice up the missions
TekRa	Posted - 2004.09.03 15:45:00 - [33] I'm doing level 3's (kill) in a caracal atm, and it is alot easier than using my rupture was. Warp in at 60km and fire away the heavies while maintaining at least 30km from the nearest npc, I even know how many to lauch to kill specifc NPCs so I can save on missiles / time. =) I use 4 named heavy launchers and a rocket launcher with defenders, named M Shield booster, 10MN named MWD and 2 hardeners. Lo-slots ballistic control and signal amp (which isnt really nessecary but i had to put something in there:) The mordus mission was a walkover (more or less) with this setup, and by the end my armor was at 80ish% because of the Lion who closed the gap. Some missions I like to take my rifter out on, just because its so much more fun > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
TekRa	Posted - 2004.09.03 15:45:00 - [34] I'm doing level 3's (kill) in a caracal atm, and it is alot easier than using my rupture was. Warp in at 60km and fire away the heavies while maintaining at least 30km from the nearest npc, I even know how many to lauch to kill specifc NPCs so I can save on missiles / time. =) I use 4 named heavy launchers and a rocket launcher with defenders, named M Shield booster, 10MN named MWD and 2 hardeners. Lo-slots ballistic control and signal amp (which isnt really nessecary but i had to put something in there:) The mordus mission was a walkover (more or less) with this setup, and by the end my armor was at 80ish% because of the Lion who closed the gap. Some missions I like to take my rifter out on, just because its so much more fun > With the lights out it's less dangerous.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.09.03 16:01:00 - [35] Geddon, 7 mega pulses, lots of heatsinks, and very little defence. Longest part of the battle is locking frigs, and that's with a sensor booster fitted.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.09.03 16:01:00 - [36] Geddon, 7 mega pulses, lots of heatsinks, and very little defence. Longest part of the battle is locking frigs, and that's with a sensor booster fitted.
Psssdoff	Posted - 2004.09.03 16:07:00 - [37] i mainly use my caracal for lvl 3 missions, but i have done them in my moa and am starting to use my thorax more and more. they're all doable in any of these ships, just have to alter your tactics accordingly. ------------------------------------------------ .,i,, Gesundheit is now recruiting. check out our Forums
Psssdoff	Posted - 2004.09.03 16:07:00 - [38] i mainly use my caracal for lvl 3 missions, but i have done them in my moa and am starting to use my thorax more and more. they're all doable in any of these ships, just have to alter your tactics accordingly. ------------------------------------------------ .,i,, Gesundheit is now recruiting. check out our Forums

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