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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.09.03 18:35:00 -
[31]
What the thing is: Guns are not the only module you need on a ship to become a good battleship pilot, you need to specialise further and eventually specialise in certain battleship classed ship. If tech2 guns allready take that long, what time will it take for tech2 battleships and how much will it add up together?
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.09.03 18:35:00 -
[32]
What the thing is: Guns are not the only module you need on a ship to become a good battleship pilot, you need to specialise further and eventually specialise in certain battleship classed ship. If tech2 guns allready take that long, what time will it take for tech2 battleships and how much will it add up together?
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2004.09.04 12:19:00 -
[33]
when im finished training the new tech 2 gunnery skills for minmtar, i will maxed in skillpoints, yeah right specialisation, i need anew clone before thinking of that.
what is the word on new clones.
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2004.09.04 12:19:00 -
[34]
when im finished training the new tech 2 gunnery skills for minmtar, i will maxed in skillpoints, yeah right specialisation, i need anew clone before thinking of that.
what is the word on new clones.
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.09.04 14:44:00 -
[35]
Issle, I do not believe these stats of T2 ammo are valid. The numbers you are quoting are numbers from last year from experiments. I do believe T2 ammo will have similar stats damagewise to T1 ammo and their only real advantage will be to have more strategic options like explosive damage for lasers. Everything else would be to much. Don't forget there are new players coming to Eve and they want to be more than just cannonfodder for vets for eternity.
Specialization is for having an advantage but not for wtfpwning everything else. I do believe that specialization or being jack of all trades are both valid options in the next year. T3 will become interesting...
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.09.04 14:44:00 -
[36]
Issle, I do not believe these stats of T2 ammo are valid. The numbers you are quoting are numbers from last year from experiments. I do believe T2 ammo will have similar stats damagewise to T1 ammo and their only real advantage will be to have more strategic options like explosive damage for lasers. Everything else would be to much. Don't forget there are new players coming to Eve and they want to be more than just cannonfodder for vets for eternity.
Specialization is for having an advantage but not for wtfpwning everything else. I do believe that specialization or being jack of all trades are both valid options in the next year. T3 will become interesting...
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Zinke
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Posted - 2004.09.04 16:29:00 -
[37]
I think its not worth trining 75 days for large guns specialization.
In my case it might be longer since i don't have sharp shooter and motion prediction at level 5 and since i want to be able to use both railguns and blasters.
I also don't like the fact that as Dreamworks have said guns don't make a pilot good but we will need God know how much other training in electronis and engineering etc to be good.
Also funny thing about all this specialization is that when its finaly done we might end-up with close to 100 various skills at level 5.
How in the name of game can anyone call it specialization?
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Zinke
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Posted - 2004.09.04 16:29:00 -
[38]
I think its not worth trining 75 days for large guns specialization.
In my case it might be longer since i don't have sharp shooter and motion prediction at level 5 and since i want to be able to use both railguns and blasters.
I also don't like the fact that as Dreamworks have said guns don't make a pilot good but we will need God know how much other training in electronis and engineering etc to be good.
Also funny thing about all this specialization is that when its finaly done we might end-up with close to 100 various skills at level 5.
How in the name of game can anyone call it specialization?
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2004.09.04 17:51:00 -
[39]
It's at moments like this that I feel smug for being a roleplayer already having been concentrating on lasers for quite a while, even before the Tech 2 requirements were released. 
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2004.09.04 17:51:00 -
[40]
It's at moments like this that I feel smug for being a roleplayer already having been concentrating on lasers for quite a while, even before the Tech 2 requirements were released.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.09.04 20:18:00 -
[41]
 Originally by: Rodj Blake
It's at moments like this that I feel smug for being a roleplayer already having been concentrating on lasers for quite a while, even before the Tech 2 requirements were released.
There are 45000 accounts of which there are prolly 44000 non roleplaying characters who will feel the downside of 75 days training for gunnery. Is that fair?
Ardor:
Currently minmatar can do damage in all dmg types, what advantage will they have?
Zinke:
Correct, a good battleship pilot has to train alot skills high. Caldari is easy to train and a good scorp pilot can fly his ship at 2-3 mil skillpoints. Amarr battleship pilots require around 4 mil skillpoints... Gallante and Minmatar require alot more skillpoints to compensate for the - points of their ship.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.09.04 20:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
It's at moments like this that I feel smug for being a roleplayer already having been concentrating on lasers for quite a while, even before the Tech 2 requirements were released.
There are 45000 accounts of which there are prolly 44000 non roleplaying characters who will feel the downside of 75 days training for gunnery. Is that fair?
Ardor:
Currently minmatar can do damage in all dmg types, what advantage will they have?
Zinke:
Correct, a good battleship pilot has to train alot skills high. Caldari is easy to train and a good scorp pilot can fly his ship at 2-3 mil skillpoints. Amarr battleship pilots require around 4 mil skillpoints... Gallante and Minmatar require alot more skillpoints to compensate for the - points of their ship.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
invaderzim
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Posted - 2004.09.05 06:36:00 -
[43]
As the saying goes:
"you can't please all of the people, all of the time"
Constantly adding new things and tinkering with the formula, makes the game interesting and more dynamic.
ULEASH THE MONKEY! |
invaderzim
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Posted - 2004.09.05 06:36:00 -
[44]
As the saying goes:
"you can't please all of the people, all of the time"
Constantly adding new things and tinkering with the formula, makes the game interesting and more dynamic.
ULEASH THE MONKEY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.09.05 11:41:00 -
[45]
I'm with Dreamworks.
See this thread I made in Gen. discussion.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.09.05 11:41:00 -
[46]
I'm with Dreamworks.
See this thread I made in Gen. discussion.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Lord Kronos
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Posted - 2004.09.05 15:42:00 -
[47]
I totaly agree with DREAMWORKS.
I can't belive how naive people actualy are regardless of age.
CCP is calling this a specialization?...Why do u need small and medium guns to lev 5?
English is far from being my native language so i will try to explain my point with a little exemple :
Let's say i have a degree in engineering, and i want to specialze in some advance engineering stuff....Do i need to go back to high school in order to specialize in that?....I realy don't think so.
Coming back to eve universe, i see as more then valid all the thoughts of DREAMWORKS and i just want to add that in my oppinion if i want to specialize in large guns then i should learn only skills that are usefull in fireing those guns and not a bunch of small and med stuff.
What will be the difference between a player that wants to be a good ceptor pilot and one that wants to shoot big tec2 guns?
My idea of specialization is to receve more then just 2 skills for a class of guns and those skills to require skills related only to that type of weapon.
CCP indead has a brutal policy of chainging stuff and i felt it first with the willpower/perception switch, so i lost countless days in training time wich allmost go me on the point of quiting the game.
Don't let urselves fooled, CCP doesn't want for us to be good in one thing, they only want us to keep learning stuff so we would never feel the lack of content from the game.
In all the others MMORPG's i've played u could see before u the entire path from noob to uber player and choose what path to fallow or not; if a rebalance would have been needed then the skill points affecting that matter would have been returned so no1 would feel left behind by the changes.
Many will not addmit to it but beside new born friendships and skill points, there is nothing that would keep us in eve.
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Lord Kronos
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Posted - 2004.09.05 15:42:00 -
[48]
I totaly agree with DREAMWORKS.
I can't belive how naive people actualy are regardless of age.
CCP is calling this a specialization?...Why do u need small and medium guns to lev 5?
English is far from being my native language so i will try to explain my point with a little exemple :
Let's say i have a degree in engineering, and i want to specialze in some advance engineering stuff....Do i need to go back to high school in order to specialize in that?....I realy don't think so.
Coming back to eve universe, i see as more then valid all the thoughts of DREAMWORKS and i just want to add that in my oppinion if i want to specialize in large guns then i should learn only skills that are usefull in fireing those guns and not a bunch of small and med stuff.
What will be the difference between a player that wants to be a good ceptor pilot and one that wants to shoot big tec2 guns?
My idea of specialization is to receve more then just 2 skills for a class of guns and those skills to require skills related only to that type of weapon.
CCP indead has a brutal policy of chainging stuff and i felt it first with the willpower/perception switch, so i lost countless days in training time wich allmost go me on the point of quiting the game.
Don't let urselves fooled, CCP doesn't want for us to be good in one thing, they only want us to keep learning stuff so we would never feel the lack of content from the game.
In all the others MMORPG's i've played u could see before u the entire path from noob to uber player and choose what path to fallow or not; if a rebalance would have been needed then the skill points affecting that matter would have been returned so no1 would feel left behind by the changes.
Many will not addmit to it but beside new born friendships and skill points, there is nothing that would keep us in eve.
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.09.06 17:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
I'm with Dreamworks.
See this thread I made in Gen. discussion.
Agree to that.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
DREAMWORKS
|
Posted - 2004.09.06 17:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
I'm with Dreamworks.
See this thread I made in Gen. discussion.
Agree to that.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Gween
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Posted - 2004.09.06 19:39:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Gween on 06/09/2004 19:41:32
I honestly dont care about the time it takes to train L specialisation skills - the guns are not even close to be released. (for 'some' of us it not even near 40days to both large spec skills at lvl4 for one gun type)
I do care about the stupid player prices once they are available. Thats my concern.
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Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
... |
Gween
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Posted - 2004.09.06 19:39:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Gween on 06/09/2004 19:41:32
I honestly dont care about the time it takes to train L specialisation skills - the guns are not even close to be released. (for 'some' of us it not even near 40days to both large spec skills at lvl4 for one gun type)
I do care about the stupid player prices once they are available. Thats my concern.
--------------
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
... |
Ardor
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Posted - 2004.09.07 01:21:00 -
[53]
Originally by: DREAMWORKS
Ardor:
Currently minmatar can do damage in all dmg types, what advantage will they have?
I dont know. Maybe more optimal range for a decreased falloff? Maybe some ammo with tracking bonus? Maybe smaller ammo sizes? Maybe some very specialized ammo which only makes one kind of damage but in high number?
The only thing I know is that specialization will give you an advantage over the best T1 named turret because of the skill damage bonus. This advantage will be there without T2 ammo. That's the reason why I do not expect T2 ammo to become so powerful as most people here seem to want/wish. If this bonus isnt it worth to train in your eyes then dont train it.
I repeat: I do believe T2 ammo will give you some more tactical options but not more damage.
High training times for advanced skills are required so that new players will have a chance to close the distance in effiency while they will never be able to catch up with the total amount of skillpoints.
I do believe players who are playing for one year should have a chance to competete with players who started one year earlier. I also believe the player who started one year earlier should have an small advantage over the player who started one year later. I also hope this way is the way to avoid a skillcap and to avoid clones (above 19m skillpoints) which will loose a certain amount of skillpoints when used.
I do believe specialization or being jack of all trades are both valid options to choose in the next 12 months. Both ways have advantages and disadvantages. In the very long run I do do believe T3 stuff might change it and those who specialize now will find their real advantage with T3, T4 and T5. This is only speculation and I doubt even CCP really knows what they will do with T3 etc.
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.09.07 01:21:00 -
[54]
Originally by: DREAMWORKS
Ardor:
Currently minmatar can do damage in all dmg types, what advantage will they have?
I dont know. Maybe more optimal range for a decreased falloff? Maybe some ammo with tracking bonus? Maybe smaller ammo sizes? Maybe some very specialized ammo which only makes one kind of damage but in high number?
The only thing I know is that specialization will give you an advantage over the best T1 named turret because of the skill damage bonus. This advantage will be there without T2 ammo. That's the reason why I do not expect T2 ammo to become so powerful as most people here seem to want/wish. If this bonus isnt it worth to train in your eyes then dont train it.
I repeat: I do believe T2 ammo will give you some more tactical options but not more damage.
High training times for advanced skills are required so that new players will have a chance to close the distance in effiency while they will never be able to catch up with the total amount of skillpoints.
I do believe players who are playing for one year should have a chance to competete with players who started one year earlier. I also believe the player who started one year earlier should have an small advantage over the player who started one year later. I also hope this way is the way to avoid a skillcap and to avoid clones (above 19m skillpoints) which will loose a certain amount of skillpoints when used.
I do believe specialization or being jack of all trades are both valid options to choose in the next 12 months. Both ways have advantages and disadvantages. In the very long run I do do believe T3 stuff might change it and those who specialize now will find their real advantage with T3, T4 and T5. This is only speculation and I doubt even CCP really knows what they will do with T3 etc.
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Arleonenis
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Posted - 2004.09.07 06:30:00 -
[55]
i agree that now training specialization weapon skill is pointless as it could be in any time nerfed to oblivion by cccp
When game will be more stable i could think about it but not now
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Arleonenis
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Posted - 2004.09.07 06:30:00 -
[56]
i agree that now training specialization weapon skill is pointless as it could be in any time nerfed to oblivion by cccp
When game will be more stable i could think about it but not now
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Dr Plaxton
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Posted - 2004.09.07 20:52:00 -
[57]
who is going to be able to afford the tech 2 large turrets guns anyway
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Dr Plaxton
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Posted - 2004.09.07 20:52:00 -
[58]
who is going to be able to afford the tech 2 large turrets guns anyway
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Raven
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Posted - 2004.09.07 21:50:00 -
[59]
I think the real question here is whether or not this is the direction that you want to go with your character. For me these specialization skills are a good thing for EVE as they force you to make a choice. If you want to focus entirely on combat you have to train these skills as in the long run they will give you an edge, that perhaps your competitor won't have. I'm currently finishing all the requirements for all of the advanced hybrid gunnery skills and in a week or so I will be training large railgun specialization. I hardly think I will be the only one as most likely many others are already close or perhaps have even started training those skills, at least I know a few of my combat oriented friends already meet most of the requirements. Besides, small tech 2 turrets have only recently started to show up on the market and at this rate I'm sure it will be at least 2 months(perhaps even more) before we see the battleship weapons drop from the research agents. That's 60+ more days for you guys to train and if you focus solely on gunnery skills it shouldn't be that far. More specialization is what I would choose. There is however one downside which will largely effect the market value of these guns. With the requirements so high not many players will be able to use them when they surface on the market, so it might effect their market value. No one is going to buy a tech 2 BS weapon if they can't use it for 2-3 months. Ultimately it comes down to whether or not you want to spend the next 73 days to get that extra 25% damage. The answer to that question is quite simple in my mind. For the combat oriented pilots the answer is a definiate yes, for others training these skills should not be a high priority as of yet. Better wait until the advanced learning skills are out.
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Raven
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Posted - 2004.09.07 21:50:00 -
[60]
I think the real question here is whether or not this is the direction that you want to go with your character. For me these specialization skills are a good thing for EVE as they force you to make a choice. If you want to focus entirely on combat you have to train these skills as in the long run they will give you an edge, that perhaps your competitor won't have. I'm currently finishing all the requirements for all of the advanced hybrid gunnery skills and in a week or so I will be training large railgun specialization. I hardly think I will be the only one as most likely many others are already close or perhaps have even started training those skills, at least I know a few of my combat oriented friends already meet most of the requirements. Besides, small tech 2 turrets have only recently started to show up on the market and at this rate I'm sure it will be at least 2 months(perhaps even more) before we see the battleship weapons drop from the research agents. That's 60+ more days for you guys to train and if you focus solely on gunnery skills it shouldn't be that far. More specialization is what I would choose. There is however one downside which will largely effect the market value of these guns. With the requirements so high not many players will be able to use them when they surface on the market, so it might effect their market value. No one is going to buy a tech 2 BS weapon if they can't use it for 2-3 months. Ultimately it comes down to whether or not you want to spend the next 73 days to get that extra 25% damage. The answer to that question is quite simple in my mind. For the combat oriented pilots the answer is a definiate yes, for others training these skills should not be a high priority as of yet. Better wait until the advanced learning skills are out.
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