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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Ebolak
Vengeance Asset Relocation
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.06 03:02:00 -
[1]
Are we alowed to discuss the effect that certian non players that can adjust thier orders like clockwork 23/7 have on the market, or not?
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Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.05.06 03:03:00 -
[2]
No.
Discussing the market is not permitted in the market discussion forum.
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Ebolak
Vengeance Asset Relocation
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.06 03:05:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Sir Elliot
No.
Discussing the market is not permitted in the market discussion forum.
Well then lets talk about a new profession..... The locksmith....
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Lui Kai
Logistics Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.05.06 03:08:00 -
[4]
Players shall not discuss issues of importance to them or their gameplay on the forums, which such discussions reflect negatively on certain automated groups.
These automated groups, currently comprising a large number of the subscription base, are best ignored entirely - we have it on good authority that being ignored makes them go away.
Please exit this thread, and sign up a 3rd account* via our convenient buddy system.
*3rd account also may not be used to discuss automated persons in a negative manner, as they clearly do not exist and we like their subscription money. We also like yours, so sign it up anyway.
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Ambulation Answers
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.06 03:54:00 -
[5]
So...are we going to keep making threads or...?
Blueprint Store |
Companion Qube
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Posted - 2009.05.06 03:55:00 -
[6]
ITT: Fishysticks, thoughts?
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.05.06 04:31:00 -
[7]
Discussing the effects on the market is fine, discussing alleged exploits is not, I am sure you can find a happy medium.
Or you can post in General Discussions and think I'm not watching 
Rule 13 of the Forum Rules Do not post about bugs and exploits.
Bugs and exploits should be reported through the proper method by filing a report for our Quality Assurance department. You can find the form here. Issues discovered while playing on the Chaos test server should be noted in the Patch Review channel. Discussions about unverified problems in the game can cause unnecessary panic in the community. When there is an issue the community needs to be aware of, we will make an official statement about it.
Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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Lui Kai
Logistics Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.05.06 04:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Discussing the effects on the market is fine, discussing alleged exploits is not, I am sure you can find a happy medium.
Would discussing the methods for negating their effect on the market be included in that happy medium?
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Ambulation Answers
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glas mir
Reaction Scientific
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Posted - 2009.05.06 04:42:00 -
[9]
this is a top issue for me as a player.
yes we shouldn't be giving botters any tips on how to improve their bots, notice I said improve and not create, but I'm not sure CCP understands the scope of the effects. I can only hope that they have assigned sufficient resources to this endeavor. I look forward to the future discussion by the MD of bots' effects.
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.05.06 04:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Discussing the effects on the market is fine, discussing alleged exploits is not, I am sure you can find a happy medium.
Would discussing the methods for negating their effect on the market be included in that happy medium?
I believe this has been answered in the other thread. Not talking about exploits directly would be one way forward.
Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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Solisk
Gallente
HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics
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Posted - 2009.05.06 04:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Discussing the effects on the market is fine, discussing alleged exploits is not, I am sure you can find a happy medium.
Would discussing the methods for negating their effect on the market be included in that happy medium?
I believe this has been answered in the other thread. Not talking about exploits directly would be one way forward.
Would you be our superhero and help us fight the good fight against alleged market bots if we said pretty please with sugar on top?
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.05.07 16:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
When there is an issue the community needs to be aware of, we will make an official statement about it.
Waiting on this
///my vote is for sale, he who sends the most iskies gets it\\\ |
Taelech
Caldari
Caldari Design and Cryogenics
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Rule 13 of the Forum Rules Do not post about bugs and exploits.
So, this other day after pleasing 15 women, I noticed these beetle-things on the floor...
Taelech - Professor emeritus - Caldari Business Tribunal School of Law
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Stardust CEO
Stardust Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:39:00 -
[14]
Bugs and exploits... fantastic. You got a half-hearted groan, and a chuckle.
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arjun
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:47:00 -
[15]
only way that will work with those ccp guys is atacking their income.
make the issue public in outside media like discussion fora, gamenews pages and what not.
tell your friends not to join eve because real players cant compete with 23/7 moneymaking machines driven often by isk sellers.
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Dzil
Caldari
Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.07 18:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: arjun
only way that will work with those ccp guys is atacking their income.
make the issue public in outside media like discussion fora, gamenews pages and what not.
tell your friends not to join eve because real players cant compete with 23/7 moneymaking machines driven often by isk sellers.
All MMOs have RMT and John Doe problems, honestly my friends would laugh if the worst trouble I had in an MMO was someone's friend John Doe kept offering better prices to the consumer.
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RJ Nobel
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Posted - 2009.05.07 18:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: arjun
only way that will work with those ccp guys is atacking their income.
make the issue public in outside media like discussion fora, gamenews pages and what not.
tell your friends not to join eve because real players cant compete with 23/7 moneymaking machines driven often by isk sellers.
I've already been quite vocal about the seriousness of the botting issue, but I very much doubt that the "moneymaking machines" are that prevalent. As was pointed out in Chribba's general discussion thread, (the one being secretly stalked by Mitnal  ) it only takes a few botters to give the appearance of a massive infestation. IMHO, we need more players to point out and petition the relatively few bots that do exist. We need much more responsive communication from CCP. A banhammer counter, a dev blog, even a simple "yes, we know there are bots in the game, and they will be dealt with soon" would go a long way towards appeasing the players. But what we don't need is to glorify the exploiters. The botters might be having some fun right now, but they're not ruining the game for everyone. I've actually had quite a bit of fun tracking down a market bot and PVPing his wallet to smithereens. 
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arjun
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.05.07 18:55:00 -
[18]
@ rj nobel
i dont talk about market bots alone. which can make life for a regular trader difficult with 23/7 0.01 isk updates
mission bots / mining bots which decrease the value of each working time unit of every one of the real players
spam / mailbots which clutter many channels and make me delete the fecking isk-seller mail every day 2 times
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RJ Nobel
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Posted - 2009.05.07 20:11:00 -
[19]
Arjun,
Well, how do you calculate the negative impact of a bot? Mining bots decrease the time-value of mining players - but also reduce the cost of ships for PVPer's and the cost of fuel for POS's. Missioning bots (if those exist, I've never heard of one) would negatively impact the LP value of other mission runners, but would also decrease the cost of faction items, which could be of benefit to non-mission-running players. The market bots I've seen are focused on controlling the buy/sell spread - which helps anyone who purchases those items. Chat spammers... well, those guys are establishing the minimum level of reading comprehension required to play Eve.
Bots represent an unfair advantage. Forums whining when someone else has an advantage is an integral part of playing Eve.  But letting an unfair advantage ruin the game for you isn't part of Eve imo.
When was the last time you suicide-ganked a macrohauler? Try it, it'll make you feel much better about bots.
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Flaming Butterfly
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Posted - 2009.05.11 05:54:00 -
[20]
CCP, when the community spent months spamming you with petitions about macrominers, you banned a lot of them but then made it impossible for trials to use barges/exhumers. You found a nice way to get paid out of the mess but didn't solve the problem at all. Macrobots are still in operation, but you're getting paid. Miners in high-sec can't compete with them and belts get stripped constantly.
I've nothing against "legit" scamming, but I've fired off numerous petitions citing exact timing on scam-spammers which only a bot can do as you can't simply copy/paste text into the chat... so bot required. Every petition I have filed has been immediately replied to with "closed" and apparently nothing done about the problem of people using bots.
Sure, they are paying accounts, but that doesn't exempt them from the EULA. 
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2009.05.11 06:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
When there is an issue the community needs to be aware of, we will make an official statement about it.
Is this a case of burying the lead? This statement, to me, read as "there is no illegal behavior going on that we need to comment on."
Perhaps I am misreading it and it means "We're working on busting a whole bunch of people but aren't ready to make a statement yet."
I tend to think CCP in general has been very poor in it's handling of this issue. If there is indeed foul play going on by some players then CCP should have found a way to ban them or stop it as if it's been going on then it has been going on for a loooong time. If it hasn't been going on then CCP could quiet down all these posts by simply stating it isn't going on and what people are noticing is legit playing.
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Ricdic
Caldari
Tleilex Developments
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.11 06:44:00 -
[22]
CCP only needs to track repetition in key presses in order to determine if someone is a bot. There will always be a slight variance however if someone is pressing one mouse button every 21-23 seconds over an 8 hour period that's a pretty obvious bot. Probably more suited to mining/mission bots (if exist).
Depending on how these supposed market ones work the same tracking above may be applicable (and is probably already in force tbh).
I still don't believe there are any market bots in Eve and until someone actually shows proof rather than "omg someone undercuts me every 10 seconds!!!" I will think the same.
This should all be in one thread somewhere and not new posts every 10 seconds. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.11 06:46:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Is this a case of burying the lead? This statement, to me, read as "there is no illegal behavior going on that we need to comment on."
Perhaps I am misreading it and it means "We're working on busting a whole bunch of people but aren't ready to make a statement yet."
I tend to think CCP in general has been very poor in it's handling of this issue. If there is indeed foul play going on by some players then CCP should have found a way to ban them or stop it as if it's been going on then it has been going on for a loooong time. If it hasn't been going on then CCP could quiet down all these posts by simply stating it isn't going on and what people are noticing is legit playing.
Shardarle,
I think you have unreasonable expectations towards Mitnal.
Due all possible respect, having met him at fanfest, he IS just a community manager. A job which I admire him for actually doing. Whenever I think about the amount of heat I get for doing the CSM, I just think of Mitnal and the rest of his team and rest assure that I could be in a much harder position.
I of course don't know if Mitnal knows anything. If he does, then I trust that CP doesn't think that it's something we just NEED to know.
Granted I would like more transparency. Sadly this issue was really just uncovered around the time that the second CSM prepared to leave office, giving us no option but to simply appeal to CCPs good reason, to do something about this.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.11 06:51:00 -
[24]
Quote:
CCP only needs to track repetition in key presses in order to determine if someone is a bot.
And get Electronic Frontier Foundation on their ass, yeah!
Quote:
There will always be a slight variance however if someone is pressing one mouse button every 21-23 seconds over an 8 hour period that's a pretty obvious bot. Probably more suited to mining/mission bots (if exist).
Who says that there is even mouse-clicks?
And even then, it's extremely easy to create a bot which will make it look like it's an actual
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.05.11 06:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
And even then, it's extremely easy to create a bot which will make it look like it's an actual
LVV accidentally the rest of his post.
Without going into details, he's correct in what he said; it takes very little coding knowledge to make a bot which spams local with contracts.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.11 07:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Frenden Dax
Originally by: LaVista Vista
And even then, it's extremely easy to create a bot which will make it look like it's an actual
LVV accidentally the rest of his post.
Without going into details, he's correct in what he said; it takes very little coding knowledge to make a bot which spams local with contracts.
You accidentally my accidentally post! 
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Hel O'Ween
Academy of Truth
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Posted - 2009.05.11 07:50:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ricdic
CCP only needs to track repetition in key presses in order to determine if someone is a bot.
Do a bit Google search for those automaters. You'll find out, that they advertise time-varying keystrokes as one of their "features".
--
EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.05.11 09:53:00 -
[28]
how can you know its a bot, a chinese employee, or just a dude with no life?
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.05.11 10:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ms Delerium
how can you know its a bot, a chinese employee, or just a dude with no life?
Exactly 
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EVEHelpisSeriousBusiness
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Posted - 2009.05.11 11:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ms Delerium
how can you know its a bot, a chinese employee, or just a dude with no life?
Find it via locator agent and open a trade window with it, if it stops updating for the next 12 hours you've got a pretty good idea :D
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