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Terrus Valkin
Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces
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Posted - 2009.05.06 05:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Terrus Valkin on 06/05/2009 05:16:28 My highsec exit to this class 5 system I'm in right now unfortunately decided to close on me, so I find myself pondering the 45-jump return trip through Cobalt Edge via the other exit (and finding it unappealing) and decided to type up some protipsÖ on easy running of some Intermediate and Advanced Sleeper sites. Basic is too easy to even require protipsÖ so I won't bother.
My corporation specializes in running Sleeper complexes, specifically Magnetometric and Radar sites (because we can't be arsed to tango with gas clouds and mining, ugh). Since our first fatal understimation of Sleeper firepower, we have sought ways to do more with less; more tank, with the same ships. And so we took the time-honored strategy of the spider tank to new heights, integrating it fully into our fleet design in order to create an impenetrable tank for all but the most destructive Sleepers. Rather than a ragtag band of battleships with a few remote reps, the spider tank functions as one entity; it is entirely coordinated and designed from the ground up to work as a network.
Essentially, the Sleeper spider tank boosts omniresists to 80%+ levels and leaves all of the repair up to fleet members, which requires skilled cooperation. It should be noted that possessing well-coordinated logistics ships can make this tactic obsolete, so if you happen to have a pair or trio of Guardians or another such trump card for your Class 5 adventures, stop reading now.
Anyway, the ship of choice for this tactic is the Dominix, because it can dedicate all its highslots to the tank (3 remote reps, 3 large cap transfers + egress port rigs for cap stability) while depending on its abundant stores of drones to do the fighting. In this way, incredible tanks can be produced on otherwise mundane battleships, a tactic well-known to most PvPers. This fit takes it to the max, however; one ship in this fleet repairing a similarly-fit ship can provide over 1100 armor per 5 seconds ('Arup' reps) on 80%+ resistances. Two ships repping the one and that becomes 2200 armor. Three on the one, 3300. You get the picture. Strong tank, bla bla bla.
This setup also allows for some versatility. With two of these spider domis, a third player can bring a ship oriented towards DPS and resists and gain the benefit of both domis, creating a high-power firing platform that need not worry about internal reps. Repeat ad infinitum if needed (although the domis will have their hands full keeping the right fleetmates locked if you overdo it). This overcomes the very real issue of drone dps not being enough, seeing as some Sleepers put up very strong (and sometimes rr-assisted) tanks of their own.
Side note: Always keep an eye out for the Sleeper ships that are rr-ing and kill them first.
So, with this basic setup, cap stability can be created in a spider tank that can overcome massive amounts of dps, allowing small gangs of simple BS pilots to run these Sleeper sites with no problem. In fact, my corp and I went back to an Intermediate site that once gave us great difficulty in completing it the first time... this time, it was completed with little more than 1 RR active at any given time. Silleh Sleepers. My corpmate and I made 170m each in a half hour with just the two of us attending (it was an Intermediate Radar site).
Anyway, some of you guys may have better setups for fighting Sleepers, but my corp has found that this works.
Here is a corp domi fit:
Highslots: 3x Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstructor 3x Large 'Regard' I Power Projector Midslots: Adjustable depending on situation. Emergency AB/cap booster recommended. Lowslots: 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 2x Armor Explosive Hardener II 1x Armor Thermic Hardener II 1x Armor Kinetic Hardener II 1x Armor EM Hardener II Rigs: 2x Egress Port Maximizer I 1x Drone Control Range Augmentor Drones: 9x Ogre I/II 10x Hammerhead I/II 10x Hobgoblin I/II
Leave comments/questions/insults below. -CEO of AC-AF- |
Terrus Valkin
Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces
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Posted - 2009.05.06 05:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Terrus Valkin on 06/05/2009 05:39:36 Looks like I chose the right time to type this. I just found another exit... *crosses fingers for a convenient highsec exit* I'll miss this system, though. Nothing like having your ship's base speed improved by 85%. I was actually going to buy an interceptor just to see how fast I could get going. :(
Edit: Would have just edited this into the original post, but I was out of room. -CEO of AC-AF- |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.05.06 05:39:00 -
[3]
Aaah, EVE where all info you read on forums is legit and noway to confuse your enemy and mess up their heads.
Nice read. I would not use it
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Terrus Valkin
Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces
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Posted - 2009.05.06 05:41:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Terrus Valkin on 06/05/2009 05:43:18 Uuuuh. wut
Don't use the fit, fine, there are other ways to tackle Sleepers. lol, I imagine domi and RR prices would be a bit higher if everyone were buying them to run their own wormholes. Just posting what works for us out of boredom.
(the rest of your post confused me) -CEO of AC-AF- |
Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 06:50:00 -
[5]
Looks like pretty standard RR tactics yo. Guess there'd still be a lot of people out there who don't know how to do this though heh.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.06 06:55:00 -
[6]
The op is full of manure, do not listen to him. Sleeper sites in class 5 systems eat your ships and spits out weird greenish goo.
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Terrus Valkin
Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces
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Posted - 2009.05.06 07:15:00 -
[7]
Is that a joke? Class 5s are totally manageable if you know what you're doing.
And yeah, it may (or may not) be pretty standard for those in the know, but I know a lot of wormhole corps/explorers that haven't employed the tactic. Figured I'd post it to see what thoughts it received. So far it's been in the "mediocre"-"stfu nub" range. lol -CEO of AC-AF- |
Mallikanth
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Posted - 2009.05.06 07:47:00 -
[8]
Nice OP.
While variants of this are being used in PvP it's useful to point out to those mission grinders how to fit for these WH's and the change in fit.
One less W-space "tip" published for the unwashed to read.
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StarFoox
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.06 08:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab The op is full of manure, do not listen to him. Sleeper sites in class 5 systems eat your ships and spits out weird greenish goo.
Can you see what class a w-hole is when you're inside or only if you get info on the w-hole netrance itself?
I know now that attacking 4 bs's in a absolution is not a good idea but if i had known what class it was i would have gone out of there.
As far as i know is up to class 3 possible to do solo
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.06 08:47:00 -
[10]
This is similar to what the carebears I know who've taken up spelunking in do so it's probably close enough to be being right.
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Kambiri Zoltana
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.06 09:18:00 -
[11]
You have 1 serious weekness at that tank, you got NO buffer at all. If you do a magnetic site in class 5. They spawn 5 bs, their alpha will put you straigth at start of hull with their alpha shot. If you dont have your reps on him in time your dead. I think you still gotta switch your rr from bs to bs when the sleepers swap target.
I know it from experience, we had a bs drop in less then 3 seconds from full shield to pod.
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Fennicus
Amarr United Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2009.05.06 09:31:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Fennicus on 06/05/2009 09:32:19 An Amarr BS with a couple of 1600mm plates, some resistance, enough cap mods & rigs (think a cap power relay or two) and 2 named large RR will do quite nicely. Oh and it has drones too :)
What you fit does of course depend on the difficulty of what you face. A class 4, you can probably get away with just a single plate or RR and fit some more damage mods.
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HenkHenk
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.06 09:32:00 -
[13]
We basically do the same thing, with a slight variation in the setups though. We usually have a gang of 5 to 15 ppl. All battleships, we also like to use a damnation as addition in this setup. Ships most used are domi's and abaddons. But we also bring other RR battleships and/or marauders.
The setup we use on our domi's is like this:
[Dominix, Sleepers Class 5] Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Capacitor Power Relay II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Regard' I Power Projector Large 'Regard' I Power Projector Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II's Bouncer II's Hobgoblin II's Hammerhead II's
This will run cap-stable and you will have a drone control range of 90 - 100km (depending on skill). The energy transfers are used to generate cap from nothing. If you have energy emission systems and remote armor repair systems, one of these at lvl5 and one at lvl4 you can drop 1 cap mod and still be cap stable.
First clear out sentries if there are any. Then we usually let the small/med drones clear out the frigates and cruisers (mostly by the domi's). While the BS'es with large guns start shooting on the battleships. Once the frigs/cruisers are gone the domi's drop ogres or bouncers to finish killing of the bs'es
This tactic works well for us. You need to have about 10 remote reps to be completely safe. Or a few less if you have a damnation with gang mods running. We haven't tried the logistics cruisers yet, still a bit worried if they will insta-pop on warp-in.
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Sniper Wolf18
Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.06 09:54:00 -
[14]
Shouldnt this be in missions and complexes. Oh, weren't you the guy who cried and said remote reps should be removed from eve because we used them to counter your superiour numbers? And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now |
DJTheBaron
Caldari FinFleet KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:03:00 -
[15]
I was under the impression that sleepers had a hardon for shooting drones? __________
"The Views & Opinions Expressed In This Post Represent Your Own, So Dont Bother Arguing" |
white kight
Galaxy Punks Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:29:00 -
[16]
Why not got for non drone based gun BS like Apoc and Megas with 6 guns and 2 LRAR, these can do class 5s with about 6 of them, plus an abso is needed to kill all the small frigs/cruisers at close range. Can do the class 5s with our eyes shut especially if you know the triggers.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
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Janus Ovellian
Minmatar Calpolli Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: "HenkHenk" We haven't tried the logistics cruisers yet, still a bit worried if they will insta-pop on warp-in.
Logistics cruisers are small enough sig-wise (the scimitar in particular is smaller than most cov-ops) that they can actually take quite a beating from the sleepers.
I've been dual-boxing class 4 sites with a scimitar and a claymore. Admittedly I had to spend a 'little' money on the scimitars tank, but, when you can rake in all those datacores for yourself, it pays for itself quite quickly.
Interesting times await... |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.05.06 13:18:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Here is a corp domi fit:
Highslots: 3x Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstructor 3x Large 'Regard' I Power Projector Midslots: Adjustable depending on situation. Emergency AB/cap booster recommended. Lowslots: 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 2x Armor Explosive Hardener II 1x Armor Thermic Hardener II 1x Armor Kinetic Hardener II 1x Armor EM Hardener II Rigs: 2x Egress Port Maximizer I 1x Drone Control Range Augmentor Drones: 9x Ogre I/II 10x Hammerhead I/II 10x Hobgoblin I/II
Leave comments/questions/insults below.
You want me to insult you?
Well, I use a slightly different setup, but I can see why you'd use those rigs and 3/3 hislot setup.
I prefer 2x remrep, 1x Egress port rigs, with 2/4 hislot setup (cap/rr), or 3/3 with dronelink/smartie in the last slot, all T2, on the logiDomi duo setup. As long as you can live with 57km drone range at skill L4, which can require rewarps to close distances, or can give up a high for dl, I'd be hesitant to use a rigslot for drone range.
1 Egress still means 20 cap /s / T2 transfer @ L4, iirc, which isn'n't enough to perma more then two remreps in this setup, but balancing according to immediate need lets you use more when needed. I also fit 3x CR's, and a cap booster for the occasional refill.
3/3 might be better as the gang grows as you'll have more cap, and can afford to waste it on extra remrepping, but three T2 reps is cutting it very close for C5 sites if you only have two ships. Arups is a bit of a cheapo tool for those unwilling to skill up to l4 (T2), since you've also got Solaces on the menu.
I've been meaning to get more corpies involved in this tactic, but we've been so busy with all kinds of other stuff I haven't tested in larger gangs yet.
I'd also go with 1x eanm + dcu instead of 2x eanm, so you have a slightly larger buffer in case something goes wrong or you get more incoming dps then you expected.
Your choice of drones is appalling though , as Ogres waste most of their potential in travelling time, unless you're up close, which you won't be. Sentries remain superior for nearly all PvE. Moving does negate some of the incoming dps, but since at least some of you will be multiple webbed most of the time, I wonder how much gain you can get from that, even using ab's.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.05.06 13:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: DJTheBaron I was under the impression that sleepers had a hardon for shooting drones?
They do, but there are ways to deal with that. As the gang grows (say 4+) it's not much of an issue, as long as they're not all gunless Domi's.
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Terrus Valkin
Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces
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Posted - 2009.05.06 16:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kambiri Zoltana You have 1 serious weekness at that tank, you got NO buffer at all. If you do a magnetic site in class 5. They spawn 5 bs, their alpha will put you straigth at start of hull with their alpha shot. If you dont have your reps on him in time your dead. I think you still gotta switch your rr from bs to bs when the sleepers swap target.
I know it from experience, we had a bs drop in less then 3 seconds from full shield to pod.
Actually my friend, you're wrong about that. I HAVE fought 5 Sleeper battleships at once (all Advanced battleships) with Sleeper cruisers to spare, and their alpha was manageable. Repairs had to be started quickly of course, but focusing on resistances was more effective than sacrificing them slightly for more buffer. The Domi's available armor was sufficient for an attentive repair team, although I can understand why you might have disagreed. Perhaps your Sleepers were simply stronger, but we were fighting advanced, which inclines me to think that our fit works just fine. -CEO of AC-AF- |
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.05.06 17:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Terrus Valkin The buffer, in my opinion, is a wooden shield against bullets.
"Buffer", is a function of resistances and hp, not just hp. Some may not use it like that, but it is the one and only way that makes any sense.
Who are you directing the middle paragraph to?
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Terrus Valkin
Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces
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Posted - 2009.05.06 18:03:00 -
[22]
I know how a buffer works - resistances combine with HP to create EHP. Simple enough. What I'm saying is that going for resistances over buffer is more effective in the long-term, because lower resistances means more damage gets through in total and thus more reps are required to stabilize the tank. The buffer may save players from the alpha, but I've never found it to be really necessary.
And the middle paragraph was kind of a mix (I went back and edited the first paragraph, fleshing out ideas from the second paragraph, so it got kind of confused). But the comment about making do with fewer players was directed at the player who said they usually have 5-15 people on an op. -CEO of AC-AF- |
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