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Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:43:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: T0nyG
Beginning on Monday, May 11th, we're going to be implementing a series of changes to the published canon that will, in its first iteration, eliminate or reconcile a huge portion of the more blatant inconsistencies we're aware of. This will be an ongoing effort, as there will no doubt be future errors given the expanding scope of storytelling avenues that we serve. This first "big purge" will mostly consist of direct changes to published chronicles and its mirror on EVElopedia. But fear not: these dreaded "retcons" will be accompanied with a detailed changelist on the EVE Fiction channel of the forums, just like a game patch, which outlines what we're changing, where we're changing it, and why.
Most of the inconsistencies in Eve's background come from the material T0nyG has written himself and it would be a very sad day for the people who actually care about the immersion of Eve it if he started changing the material that pre-dated his work to match his vision.
If Retconning is to be done, then the changes should be made only to the material he has written so that it's more in line with the pre-existing material.
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It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:16:00 -
[2]
Agreed, though I'm sure there is more to the project than T0ny making his word law.
At least I hope so.
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:19:00 -
[3]
Nothing to add to that post.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:34:00 -
[4]
How can this be an issue before an actual Dev Blog listening exactly what they are changing has been released?
No Support. Please be patient and WAIT for the changes to come.
--Isaac
Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.05.09 22:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
How can this be an issue before an actual Dev Blog listening exactly what they are changing has been released?
No Support. Please be patient and WAIT for the changes to come.
--Isaac
Yeah. I mean, it's not like Tony G introduced inconsistencies are the only ones.
For example, I wouldn't mind them fixing inconsistencies such as "When did the Caldari meet the Jove?" or "How the hell could Karsoth be both chamberlain to Doriam AND Heideran?" just to name the two at the top of my head.
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-My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Daraasi
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 22:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel
Yeah. I mean, it's not like Tony G introduced inconsistencies are the only ones.
For example, I wouldn't mind them fixing inconsistencies such as "When did the Caldari meet the Jove?" or "How the hell could Karsoth be both chamberlain to Doriam AND Heideran?" just to name the two at the top of my head.
Maybe they just kept him on, as he seems to have been such an obviously likable and effective guy.
Having for some perverse possibly latently masochistic reason read through the book, I don't see the need to wait for some damage to be done before firing a warning shot.
Per Aspera Ad Astra
Ceterum Censeo Jovenem Esse Delendam |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Daraasi
Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel
Yeah. I mean, it's not like Tony G introduced inconsistencies are the only ones.
For example, I wouldn't mind them fixing inconsistencies such as "When did the Caldari meet the Jove?" or "How the hell could Karsoth be both chamberlain to Doriam AND Heideran?" just to name the two at the top of my head.
Maybe they just kept him on, as he seems to have been such an obviously likable and effective guy.
Having for some perverse possibly latently masochistic reason read through the book, I don't see the need to wait for some damage to be done before firing a warning shot.
I know. After having read the novel IMHO Tony G is the Uwe Boll of authors.
Hopefully Abraxas has some influence over the Retcon-train. I like Abraxas and his style.
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-My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
How can this be an issue before an actual Dev Blog listening exactly what they are changing has been released?
No Support. Please be patient and WAIT for the changes to come.
--Isaac
You are correct, there were conflicts in PF before T0nyG - but finally hammering out those isn't the issue. The issue is that T0nyG, who has proven he can't be trusted with PF, has announced he going to be doing some retconning. The only retconning that he should be doing is on his own material.
The only people trust worthy enough to touch anything written before 2006 are Abraxas and Ginger. Waiting for the changes is just silly because once CCP make a decision they stick by it and their people even if it was a bad one.
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It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
How can this be an issue before an actual Dev Blog listening exactly what they are changing has been released?
No Support. Please be patient and WAIT for the changes to come.
The concern is that the retcon will make changes to material that should have been used to write later material.
Example:
The Scorpion, according to in-game material(presumably from when the game was released) is very new, newer than the Raven.
In Ruthless (written by TonyG) the Raven is 'brand' new and the Scorpion an established ship/workhorse of the Caldari Navy.
The issue is a concern that instead of correcting more recent material (that should have drawn on the previous material to begin with), the older material will be changed to make what more recent authors have written the "correct" versions.
Making CCP aware of the concern before they make "exactly what they are changing" known.
Asking "Hey, why did you not change Ruthless instead of the in-game description concerning the Scorpion?" after they have already done so is going to result in CCP going "We made everything consistent, be happy! We don't care if we changed the older source!"
We don't want CCP to do what LucasArts did.
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
Ismil
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:26:00 -
[10]
Everything has been said already
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Heartstone on 09/05/2009 23:28:04
Fully supported. Please let Ginger be the lead on this one 
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.05.10 05:58:00 -
[12]
Also, here is another reason why:
Its CCP's Background. If they decide T0nyG is the guy to do it, then that is that. We will not be able to change that fact. It is a corporate decision and CSM has very little influence in this area.
--Isaac
Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.05.10 07:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Also, here is another reason why:
Its CCP's Background. If they decide T0nyG is the guy to do it, then that is that. We will not be able to change that fact. It is a corporate decision and CSM has very little influence in this area.
--Isaac
You may be right but if we don't voice our opinions now we have no right to complain after the fact if things don't go the way we'd like. |
Laerise
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.10 08:45:00 -
[14]
First off, I did not think the book was too bad *ducks*, but in regards to whom I'd like to be the gardener of Prime Fiction I have to say I trust Ginger and Abraxas more.
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Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.05.10 10:37:00 -
[15]
+1 Ginger
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Deldrac
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.10 11:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Deldrac on 10/05/2009 11:36:50
I suspect a big part of this is the changes necessary to support devs wasting time on the Vampires-in-stations beta.
So support not doing that. Obv.
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.05.10 16:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Also, here is another reason why:
Its CCP's Background. If they decide T0nyG is the guy to do it, then that is that. We will not be able to change that fact. It is a corporate decision and CSM has very little influence in this area.
The CSM can make it known there is a concern. Your argument could be made concerning every part of the game and thus invalidates the very existence of the CSM.
There is one thing we can do should we be dissatisfied with changes made - leave. Whether many will do it or not I do not know and it would of course depend on the changes made.
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
Esna Pitoojee
TalCorp Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.05.10 17:44:00 -
[18]
To quote a famous space opera line, "I have a baaaaad feeling about this."
Some canon inconsistencies are to be expected, as not everything can be perfectly checked. However, between the Empyrean Age novel and Theodicy, TonyG has shown me that he is intent on re-writing the story of EVE to fit his own story.
I commented on the dev blog comments about this, to, so I'll be succinct: This could either be a 'fix all the error's actual inconsistencies' retcon spree, or this could be a 'stealth edit older items to fit my view' retcon spree.
For the love of all that is holy, I hope it's the first kind.
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Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you.
My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp. |
Ferrisa
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Posted - 2009.05.10 18:09:00 -
[19]
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Derrys
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.05.10 18:16:00 -
[20]
Inconsistencies should be reconciled by giving preference to the aspects of the storyline that the players have embraced and relied upon.
After all, why should we incorporate any of the story into our gameplay if it's just going to be dumped later to accommodate one person's -- let's face it -- less than popular idea of what the EVE universe should be?
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Hurs Sokira
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.25 13:49:00 -
[21]
TonyG's "popularity" in player's community is second only to t20's reputation, and the latter is no longer with CCP. As was pointed out elsewhere by other players, it is amusing (to say the least) that one of the top marketing people at CCP is generating so much negative feelings amongst the arguably most loyal customer base.
Putting TonyG in charge of retconning the EVE's canon is wrong on every level.
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Solo Player
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Posted - 2009.05.25 16:34:00 -
[22]
Most definitely.
need for credibility and consistency > TonyG's ego > EVE lore > TonyG's literary abilities
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