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[PvE Lvl 4] Paladin vs Navy Apoc ?

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Zen Mehari	Posted - 2009.05.15 03:35:00 - [1] After incessant mission grinding in a Raven I felt it's time for a change... How does the Paladin compare to the Navy Apoc? Obviously the Paladin gets some nice bonuses (cap, web, armor rep, damage, tractor) but the Navy Apoc gets an additional low-slot, rig-slot ...and is a lot cheaper. Is there a clear winner among these two ships or are they more evenly matched? Thanks.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.05.15 03:43:00 - [2] The Paladin absolutely annihilates the Navy Apoc in effectiveness PVEwise. I even fly Paladins in PVP sometimes because they're so awesome. They're pretty much a Nightmare, with a superior tank, infinite capacitor and web bonus - and the huge cargo means more cap charges than you can shake a stick at. If you're just PVEing, stick with the Raven because you'll take forever to make up for the cost of a well fitted Paladin by missioning. But if you wanna use it for other stuff besides idiot carebear mission grinding, it's the ship for you.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.15 03:46:00 - [3] Paladin for the utility of being able to bunch your kills together for EZ salvage, as well as higher DPS with Tachs at longer range. You may also look at Nightmare. Shield tank with lasers, same cost as Paladin.
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Furies	Posted - 2009.05.15 04:06:00 - [4] I love my Paladin it pwns for running missions makes it easier almost too easy Still wouldn't risk it in pvp tho as they are still too damned expensive
temponita	Posted - 2009.05.15 04:06:00 - [5] Originally by: Zen Mehari After incessant mission grinding in a Raven I felt it's time for a change... How does the Paladin compare to the Navy Apoc? Obviously the Paladin gets some nice bonuses (cap, web, armor rep, damage, tractor) but the Navy Apoc gets an additional low-slot, rig-slot ...and is a lot cheaper. Is there a clear winner among these two ships or are they more evenly matched? Thanks. The Navy Apoc is relatively easier to harden and offers more flexibility than the Paladin as smaller ship(Angels) which can be a real problem with large turret weapons. The Apoc. on the other hand, can mount a pair of medium beams that allows you to deal with smaller targets very quickly. The downside to the N. Apoc is where, whatever it gains in flexibility it looses in DPS. This is in comparison to the Abaddon(of course). Aside from possibly having the worst CAP in the game, and having to sacrifice all of your RIG slots to CCC's, The Abaddon is one fearsome mission boat. Lots of people don't recognize the amazing tank potential of the Abaddon(up to 84000EHP). And that it can equal or exceed what other ships need two reppers to achieve with one single repairer. Well worth a look imo. I used to run missions in a Paladin exclusively. Now, I run(most of them) with an Abaddon and I use my Pali. to salvage(with salvage rigs). This has allowed me to keep 2-3 missions going at all times instead of one(which was what I did in the past).
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2009.05.15 04:16:00 - [6] Originally by: temponita The Apoc. on the other hand, can mount a pair of medium beams that allows you to deal with smaller targets very quickly. As a general rule, do the exact opposite of whatever someone who suggests something like this says.
Zen Mehari	Posted - 2009.05.15 04:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu If you're just PVEing, stick with the Raven because you'll take forever to make up for the cost of a well fitted Paladin by missioning. I'm not rich so cost is a factor, but if a Paladin can make the missions more entertaining than that counts for something. Speed is another issue -I'd really like to get through missions faster and I'm hopeful Paladin can help. Am I being misguided in that regard? Originally by: temponita I run(most of them) with an Abaddon and I use my Pali. to salvage(with salvage rigs). This has allowed me to keep 2-3 missions going at all times instead of one(which was what I did in the past). You swapped out a Paladin for an Abbaddon? Or is this on 2 accounts? Makes me wonder if I should be going down this route at all...
temponita	Posted - 2009.05.15 04:42:00 - [8] Originally by: ZW Dewitt As a general rule, do the exact opposite of whatever someone who suggests something like this says. As a general rule, don't knock it before you try it.
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.15 05:00:00 - [9] It has that web bonus for a reason... My paladin obliterates everything destroyer sized and larger, only having trouble with close frigates and destroyers orbiting outside of web range (which almost never happens with a 15km web) If you have a set of light drones cleaning up the frigates for you then you'll plow through everything in no time. ___________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
temponita	Posted - 2009.05.15 05:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Khandara Seraphim It has that web bonus for a reason... My paladin obliterates everything destroyer sized and larger, only having trouble with close frigates and destroyers orbiting outside of web range (which almost never happens with a 15km web) If you have a set of light drones cleaning up the frigates for you then you'll plow through everything in no time. Taking lvl4 EA for example... one of the most profitable lvl 4 in game atm. (100m+) Notice how they rep off(shield) drone damage with ease? Now throw a pair of medium heavy II's and they vanish in mere seconds. While it is true that a pair of mediums don't work at all on a Paladin, they do work very nicely on the larger tourett ships though. That is to say.... it's not for every mission either. Also the Abaddon and Paladin are toe to toe DPS wise, but in resists, the Abadoon is in a class of it's own. It takes two reppers on a Paladin to match or exceed the Abaddon's EHP. I'm not knocking the Paladin btw. It is(imo) one of the most majestic ships in the game.
Anda Chiyo	Posted - 2009.05.15 05:30:00 - [11] Originally by: temponita Notice how they rep off(shield) drone damage with ease? Never had a problem taking out Angel frigs w/ T2 Warriors. They chew them in seconds. Didn't have all that much trouble w/ AE4 in a Paladin, even w/ em as primary damage type the dps just eats through them, albeit a little slower. Went through the optional sixth room quite nicely as well. I kind of go against the grain and tend to fit Megapulse as well. Again even the mostly em Scorch takes Angels out w/o much trouble. Plus I kind of like to try killing within 40k of my ship for looting purposes. I just aggro all and kill them as they come into that range (wrecking ball stuff and loot on the fly), except for the bs's that like to orbit at 50k. Note: I've also run Megabeams and Tachs as well. Didn't care much for the Beam setup.
Psi Draconis Caldari Pirate Shop	Posted - 2009.05.15 05:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Zen Mehari After incessant mission grinding in a Raven I felt it's time for a change... How does the Paladin compare to the Navy Apoc? Obviously the Paladin gets some nice bonuses (cap, web, armor rep, damage, tractor) but the Navy Apoc gets an additional low-slot, rig-slot ...and is a lot cheaper. Is there a clear winner among these two ships or are they more evenly matched? Thanks. CNR
Zen Mehari	Posted - 2009.05.15 05:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Psi Draconis CNR I can fly Golem & Kronos w/ T2 so... oh wai...you're mocking me aren't you /me evil glare
Foulque	Posted - 2009.05.15 07:56:00 - [14] Paladin or Nightmare, Navy Apoc only if you don't have the skills for either of those. ________
joodner	Posted - 2009.05.15 08:05:00 - [15] Originally by: temponita Originally by: Khandara Seraphim It has that web bonus for a reason... My paladin obliterates everything destroyer sized and larger, only having trouble with close frigates and destroyers orbiting outside of web range (which almost never happens with a 15km web) If you have a set of light drones cleaning up the frigates for you then you'll plow through everything in no time. Taking lvl4 EA for example... one of the most profitable lvl 4 in game atm. (100m+) Notice how they rep off(shield) drone damage with ease? Now throw a pair of medium heavy II's and they vanish in mere seconds. While it is true that a pair of mediums don't work at all on a Paladin, they do work very nicely on the larger tourett ships though. That is to say.... it's not for every mission either. Also the Abaddon and Paladin are toe to toe DPS wise, but in resists, the Abadoon is in a class of it's own. It takes two reppers on a Paladin to match or exceed the Abaddon's EHP. I'm not knocking the Paladin btw. It is(imo) one of the most majestic ships in the game. I love both ships... BUT.. Mixing guns on any ships is just wrong ..its Oh so very very wrong. Its gimping your DPS and hence mission run times. Anything that gets under 15K and smaller than a BC is for drones. T-2 lights will rip frigs apart in seconds.. and you can fit 5 x Lgt and 5 x Meds TII's. I have NEVER seen Angel frigs repping off drone dmg, drones swam ... what drones are you using ? how good are your drone skills ? Wasting a high slot for a med/small gun is ... just wrong. And TBH if you running missions only, you don't need much of a tank when you doing 900+ DPS without drones and over 1000+DPS with drones. Example, how long does it take you in your abaddon to run a full AE 4, Time from inital warp in to when you head back to station.. (Either with or without salvaging is fine but specifiy please) The Pally just rips even angels apart (Tachs or MPII's (depending on my mood :P)). 6.1K volley tends to end missions fast. But really, with max gun and drone skills and owning both ships, the pally really does comeout in front for all missions, but alot of players tend to waaay over tank there ships, or want to make em cap stable, and thus losing time. I have no issues if that a way a player wants to play, but it just is NOT the most efficent way to setup for lvl 4's. Missions pay for the real fun of eve, and its all about ISK/HR. Hell for some missions I run 5 HS's just because I never get to armor, no need for any tank and while the 4th and 5th HS do almost nothing, the harders they replace are doing even less.
Miyamura Miyako	Posted - 2009.05.15 08:12:00 - [16] Well, I love N. Apoc, with pulse lazers it is realy awesome :) Becouse on N. Apoc you get bonuses to optimal range, and from plulses you get more tracking speed and dps. Works very well in most missions where rats are closer than 50km. Plus it is cheaper, less demanding on skils and have enough tank for any lv4 mission out there (well to me only Enemies Abound 5 of 5 is trouble, but thats mainly becouse i cannot yet fit T2 hardeners). So i think N. Apoc is win here.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.05.15 08:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Zen Mehari I'm not rich so cost is a factor, but if a Paladin can make the missions more entertaining than that counts for something. The only things that can the missions more entertaining are human pirates wanting to suicide you. :P
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.05.15 10:42:00 - [18] Edited by: Qui Shon on 15/05/2009 10:42:03 Originally by: Zen Mehari How does the Paladin compare to the Navy Apoc? Do you have Marauder 5? If you don't, you're missing out on the last 5% dmg on the Pally, which isn't the case with Chrony or Golly. Navy Apoc's range bonus can be real nice, but it isn't going to make up for the missing dmg bonus in most cases. Still, you can get a nice 900+dps at 30km, with great tracking, and still 600+ at 85km, while your drones chew on something else on top of that.
Zen Mehari	Posted - 2009.05.16 00:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Qui Shon Do you have Marauder 5? If you don't, you're missing out on the last 5% dmg on the Pally, which isn't the case with Chrony or Golly. Yeah I have Marauder 5. It was a pain to train but I'm glad I have it now.

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