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Losing the "game" out of the exploration game

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Forge Trader	Posted - 2009.05.15 20:46:00 - [1] Let's see, its been about 10 days since I found an unexploited exploration site in hisec. Prior to apocrypha, could spend a couple of hours probling, almost always found some unexplored site as a reward. Great fun to occasionally get a faction drop, or something else worthwhile. Now, everyone and his mother, uncle, brother, and dog are "exploring", because "exploring" is so easy. A single "explorer" can probe six to eight entire systems in an evening. Since there are a lot more players than systems, this means exploration sites in systems are being swamped by the number of players exploring. There is no game play to ration out discovery of these sites. Spending the same amount of time probing now as before Aprocrypha, and finding no rewards, is not fun. Will not do this much longer. Am I off base? Missing something?
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.05.15 20:55:00 - [2] Try getting out of high sec and looking someplace that's not so crowded. Exploration inside busy empire systems doesn't make a lot of sense anyway... how could something that can be found with probes remain hidden and unfound in the middle of the most populated and long-settled systems? ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Forge Trader	Posted - 2009.05.15 21:00:00 - [3] So long as exploring took skills that required skill training time, equipment that required both skills and isk, and patience, my experience was that you could always find unexploited exploration sites in hi-sec. I.e., it was a game. If you do not enjoy pvp, or do not enjoy your ship being ganked by someone playing their game, hisec has always been there. Lots of player styles in EvE. Shame to lose one that has worked for so long.
Lian Xander Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.05.15 21:08:00 - [4] Two words ... "adapt" and "overcome". Everytime something changes, there is a whine thread ... never fails. So something changed - change is inevitable - there are many other hi-sec systems that have far less players in them. Try in there, or stay away from the heavy mission and trading hubs, as those are bound to have more scanning players in them. Other than that ... I don't know what else to tell you. ________________________________________________
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.05.15 21:57:00 - [5] here's why: When an exploration site despawns, a new one spawns...but not necessarily in the same area. Apocrypha turned a lot of people onto exploration, and as a result all the sites in busy hisec are farmed out quickly. They then end up spawning again in lowsec. The amount of site spawns I've found in lowsec is huge. I found one system with two gravs, a wormhole, a magno, and one or two radars. Move to lowsec or, failing that, less busy hisec.
Forge Trader	Posted - 2009.05.15 22:03:00 - [6] It would be a simple matter to put the "game" back into the exploration game. For example, make a healthy percentage of exploration sites difficult to find without skills and equipment. CCP had to do something to make wormholes easy to find, because wh's are now such a big part of the game, & they needed lots of players to be able to find them. But, why not just make wh's a special category of exploration site? Maybe, using a "wormhole" probe? Or, make wh's easy to probe, & leave the other exploration sites as more of a challenge, so the exploration game is not lost? When things change for the worse in a game you enjoy, it is worthwhile to point out the mechanic which causes the negative change - maybe someone will consider changing it, again. This is not just a whine, but also a recommendation to improve the game, imho.
jst tstng	Posted - 2009.05.15 23:17:00 - [7] You are off base I havent done a lot of exploring but found loads of unknowns when i was. This was in metropolis in Minmatar hisec. It could be that you were just unlucky.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.05.16 00:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Forge Trader If you do not enjoy pvp, or do not enjoy your ship being ganked by someone playing their game, hisec has always been there. Lots of player styles in EvE. Shame to lose one that has worked for so long. PVP is often interpreted to mean combat, and only combat. It's not. PVP is simply beating the other guy. That can be done by defining "the game" or denying the other guy his "game". It's pretty easy to survive in 0.0 and/or low sec. It is not mandatory to engage the hostile pilots. There's a valid PVP tactic in evading hostiles that's fairly easy to learn and awesome when perfected. Don't write off low sec and 0.0 as combat-only warzones. The most dangerous pilots in space are harmless if you're not in their targetting range. I highly advise hooking up with a group that can teach the ropes of surviving outside of high-sec. There's a galaxy out there. Are you or are you not an Explorer? ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic

CCP Dropbear	Posted - 2009.05.16 00:35:00 - [9] Santiago is correct. You will find yourself competing against your fellow capsuleers wherever you go, and that includes highsec. The difference is that, usually, the worst that can happen to you in highsec is that someone takes "your" resources. This is quite different to low/nullsec, where they can take your ship and your life, too. Also, exploration sites are (in general) not a finite resource. If a site is cleared, it pops up elsewhere (mostly anyways, some sites have a "cooldown timer" on the respawn). Kahega was mostly right, although some sites are set to spawn in highsec only, so it's not the case that all of the highsec sites are slowly being pushed out to lowsec. There will always be sites allocated to spawn in highsec systems. A good explorer will know to hunt in the quieter systems, which tend to accumulate sites as they respawn after being cleared in the busier systems (which are more frequently cleared out entirely due to higher population density). Those who walk off the well-beaten paths are rewarded, and rightly so. This is exploration, after all. I love the way the mechanic works, myself. It's completely dynamic, driven in a large part by the actions of you, the players, and it rewards exploration in the truest sense of the word.

sitar seaton	Posted - 2009.05.16 01:05:00 - [10] I hate the new exploration system. Sure it is easy, yeah, great. But not fun. I spend alot of time probing something down only to find it is a wormhole. Then I move to another system spend ages probing something down - wormhole again! It is tiresome and boring. Something has to change. Either special probes just for wormholes or increased sensitivity for wormholes so they scan faster. Anything. Exploration used to be fun :(


CCP Dropbear	Posted - 2009.05.16 01:39:00 - [11] It shouldn't be taking you all that long to identify the signature type, only around 5 minutes or so each, depending on your fitting and ship. Relative to other signature types, wormholes are already fairly easy to find, as well.

Aidan Drake	Posted - 2009.05.16 01:40:00 - [12] Originally by: CCP Dropbear A good explorer will know to hunt in the quieter systems, which tend to accumulate sites as they respawn after being cleared in the busier systems (which are more frequently cleared out entirely due to higher population density). Those who walk off the well-beaten paths are rewarded, and rightly so. This is exploration, after all. THIS! If there are more than 5-6 people in your system, keep going! You're not on the frontier! Take a minute to look around the galaxy map. There are swaths of low-sec that are almost totally unpopulated due to the fact that they aren't worth crossing through, they only lead to 0.0, or they are flat-out dead ends. A lot of these systems don't even have stations. So guess what they DO have an abundance of? Missions in low-sec are worthless. Mining in low-sec is worthless. But I can think of one very, very good reason to go there.
Aidan Drake	Posted - 2009.05.16 01:43:00 - [13] Originally by: sitar seaton Sure it is easy, yeah, great. But not fun. I spend alot of time probing something down only to find it is a wormhole. I know where you can go to scan down a lot more sites...
Renarla	Posted - 2009.05.16 02:31:00 - [14] Why don't you try -gasp- going to lowsec? You'll find better sites, and most pirates won't be bothered to probe you out. If you know what to look for it's easy to tell when someone is trying to find you, and you can easily GTFO before they do. However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.16 03:31:00 - [15] Originally by: CCP Dropbear It shouldn't be taking you all that long to identify the signature type, only around 5 minutes or so each, depending on your fitting and ship. Relative to other signature types, wormholes are already fairly easy to find, as well. Thats the problem. I spent the best part of yesterday probing, i probed a total of 15 0.5 systems which have no more than 5 people in them at any time of the day, and its mostly the same people. (mining corp). 12 of the systems had a signature, 6 of these had two. I am not exaggerating when in say all of the systems with signatures had one wormhole. A total of 14 wormholes between the systems, 2 plexes, one drone, one sansha (neither admitted anything bigger than frigate sized hulls, meaning AF and all aswell,). I found one radar site, and one gravimetric site. I did not count anomalies, but it was roughly 3 anomalies every second or third system. Apart form anomalies, wormholes vastly outnumber all other forms of exploration sites. This concerns me as i do not always feel like jumping into a wormhole just to do some exploration. As fun as they are, some more "solo-friendly" for when nobody else is online to hang around with is never a bad thing. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 ^Third Times a Charm^
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.05.16 04:06:00 - [16] Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 16/05/2009 04:06:34 We shouldn't have to explain to "Explorers" that more stuff is available to be found OUTSIDE of safe space. Damn. Please look up 'Exploring' in the dictionary. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Vladmir Loki Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.05.16 05:35:00 - [17] Originally by: CCP Dropbear Also, exploration sites are (in general) not a finite resource. If a site is cleared, it pops up elsewhere (mostly anyways, some sites have a "cooldown timer" on the respawn). Kahega was mostly right, although some sites are set to spawn in highsec only, so it's not the case that all of the highsec sites are slowly being pushed out to lowsec. There will always be sites allocated to spawn in highsec systems. Since we've got you here, could you elaborate on what types of sites have "cooldown" timers on them? I'm just wondering about that. ************************************* Spoony G > CCP will have to reimburse me for what i paid for all that iskies
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.05.16 06:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 16/05/2009 04:06:34 We shouldn't have to explain to "Explorers" that more stuff is available to be found OUTSIDE of safe space. Damn. Please look up 'Exploring' in the dictionary. but I think I might be able to find the holy grail in the middle of NYC, I think I saw a bum using it to panhandle
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.05.16 06:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: CCP Dropbear It shouldn't be taking you all that long to identify the signature type, only around 5 minutes or so each, depending on your fitting and ship. Relative to other signature types, wormholes are already fairly easy to find, as well. Thats the problem. I spent the best part of yesterday probing, i probed a total of 15 0.5 systems which have no more than 5 people in them at any time of the day, and its mostly the same people. (mining corp). 12 of the systems had a signature, 6 of these had two. I am not exaggerating when in say all of the systems with signatures had one wormhole. A total of 14 wormholes between the systems, 2 plexes, one drone, one sansha (neither admitted anything bigger than frigate sized hulls, meaning AF and all aswell,). I found one radar site, and one gravimetric site. I did not count anomalies, but it was roughly 3 anomalies every second or third system. Apart form anomalies, wormholes vastly outnumber all other forms of exploration sites. This concerns me as i do not always feel like jumping into a wormhole just to do some exploration. As fun as they are, some more "solo-friendly" for when nobody else is online to hang around with is never a bad thing. any site in highsec is easy to probe. then again, 5d 7h left on cartographer elite. either way there are more consistent ways to make money in highsec. some of the explorations aren't bad, but most aren't good either.
sitar seaton	Posted - 2009.05.16 06:18:00 - [20] As I said scanning is now much easier yes. Stuff is easy to find yes. But when you drop a probe and you have several sites in the system you have to scan many times at smaller and smaller distances till you find out it what the type is. This is tiresome and not fun. The old system had problems but multispec probes made it overall fun. After the first scan you could decide whether or not to continue spending time because you knew the type of site. This gives control to the player. In the current system you have to spend not just time but effort moving probes around and around and juggling them and zooming in and juggling and zooming in and then you eventually find out it was just a wormhole. For me with sisters launcher and decent skills I have to get the range down to 1au or less till I can tell the signature type, which means about 10 minutes of juggling and zooming and juggling and zooming....not fun. The only change needed to put the fun back is put the player back in control after the first scan. Or make WH show up first scan at least, not 100% just knowing WH is there vs some other signature. I am just saying, I hate the current system. It ruined a fun part of eve.

Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.05.16 06:41:00 - [21] Quote: The old system had problems but multispec probes made it overall fun. After the first scan you could decide whether or not to continue spending time because you knew the type of site. This gives control to the player. Agreed. I never felt more immersed and in-control of exploration when I was alt+tabbing in and out, waiting for 106-second cycles to finish. Quote: For me with sisters launcher and decent skills I have to get the range down to 1au or less till I can tell the signature type, which means about 10 minutes of juggling and zooming and juggling and zooming....not fun. Then you're doing it wrong. With good skills and faction probes/launchers, it doesn't take me 5 minutes to rule out a side.
Newbear	Posted - 2009.05.16 08:02:00 - [22] This is an outrage, I demand the right to play this massivly multiplayer game by myself. Can I have your stuff? Click here for my High Security POS Service
King Rothgar Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.05.16 08:13:00 - [23] You fail at probing, I get identities on most sites in under 2 minutes. Typically I get a warp in during that time too. I have cov ops 5, sisters launcher, sisters probes, 2 scan rigs and have the other scan skills at 4. The current method is infinitely better than the old one. ---------------------------------------------
Forge Trader	Posted - 2009.05.16 08:46:00 - [24] Followed the good advice of several contributors (however, not the advice to "go to losec" - you are not understanding the problem). Had immediate success. Thanks for sharing ideas based on your experience. We are back in business.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2009.05.16 08:48:00 - [25] Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 16/05/2009 08:50:38 Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 16/05/2009 08:49:00 For me problems are : - Dropping value of some exploration items some of it almost to zero ( f.e. look encryption books ) . - Scanning more than 15 signatures without a brake make me very tired ( scanning is very repetitive + new probes graphics that makes my eyes bleed ) - Fluff stuff from ladar hacking site , it just makes me say FU. Besides that i think new system is a good one , go lo-sec.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.16 11:22:00 - [26] Quote: Followed the good advice of several contributors (however, not the advice to "go to losec" - you are not understanding the problem). The "problem", as in Exploration you are too wuss to explore 66% of the game yet want rewards?
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.16 16:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: CCP Dropbear It shouldn't be taking you all that long to identify the signature type, only around 5 minutes or so each, depending on your fitting and ship. Relative to other signature types, wormholes are already fairly easy to find, as well. Thats the problem. I spent the best part of yesterday probing, i probed a total of 15 0.5 systems which have no more than 5 people in them at any time of the day, and its mostly the same people. (mining corp). 12 of the systems had a signature, 6 of these had two. I am not exaggerating when in say all of the systems with signatures had one wormhole. A total of 14 wormholes between the systems, 2 plexes, one drone, one sansha (neither admitted anything bigger than frigate sized hulls, meaning AF and all aswell,). I found one radar site, and one gravimetric site. I did not count anomalies, but it was roughly 3 anomalies every second or third system. Apart form anomalies, wormholes vastly outnumber all other forms of exploration sites. This concerns me as i do not always feel like jumping into a wormhole just to do some exploration. As fun as they are, some more "solo-friendly" for when nobody else is online to hang around with is never a bad thing. any site in highsec is easy to probe. then again, 5d 7h left on cartographer elite. either way there are more consistent ways to make money in highsec. some of the explorations aren't bad, but most aren't good either. It aint all bout the isk though, its the fact i really couldnt participate unless i jumped back 20 jumps, refitted an AF, and came back to instapop frigs. There should be at least a few good ones that are on par, or even just a little bit less rewarding than level 3's tbh. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 ^Third Times a Charm^
Amahenvec	Posted - 2009.05.16 17:24:00 - [28] my 2 cents. you can scout cloaked now = less risk in low sec ,just launch your probes and scan cloaked "i found a wormhole" = if thats a class 1 or 2 wormhole it could be rewarding to get your compat ship and pew pew rats or get some friends and do it together much like a 0.0 complex. can you solo all exploration content? NO should you be able to? NO
Veng3ance Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.05.16 18:25:00 - [29] Originally by: CCP Dropbear Also, exploration sites are (in general) not a finite resource. If a site is cleared, it pops up elsewhere (mostly anyways, some sites have a "cooldown timer" on the respawn). This actually concerns me greatly. The entire point of exploration in the first place is to give an even playing field to people who log-on in different timezones, instead of right after downtime or in the morning or what have you. What kind of timers are on what sites? And how long are these timers? Am I getting screwed because I like to do exploration right after server primetime when I get home from work? Are the sites of lower quality because the higher end sites have a "cooldown timer". If the timer isn't very long I guess its not an issue. But I could easily see you guys do something absurd like a 4 hour timer.
Tagami Wasp	Posted - 2009.05.16 19:50:00 - [30] Can we lose the texture on the scanning probes skin? Otherwise, the new system is 100 times better than the old one.



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