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Idea For Rebalancing Titans

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Ahz	Posted - 2009.05.21 23:41:00 - [1] The number of Titans in-game is roughly 160 and climbing. Maybe the game can tolerate this number of apex ships now but there's concern that in a year or two this number will double or triple. At a certain point things get kind of silly. So, here's an idea: Update Titans so that operating them incurs a maintenance cost. Right now it only costs to build one. The game continues to generate ISK so eventually any alliance with the right infrastructure can create as many as they want. But if there were ongoing maintenance costs (fuel, food, etc...) there would be a limit to the number of Titans an alliance could support. No matter how large they were. Titans (and mother ships) should be able to anchor and should require regular infusions of resources. Just like a POS. Without these resources they should become non-functional after an extended period of time. Maybe it takes a freighter full of food, water, passengers, spare parts, and fuel every 30 days or something just to keep the lights on. This is the only way I can think of to limit the number of Titans in the game. If you extend this analogy, I think the same is true of player outposts. These should also require regular resources. Just a thought
Ahz	Posted - 2009.05.24 17:36:00 - [2] Bump.
Eriandia	Posted - 2009.05.25 09:24:00 - [3] /signed
Karleigh Aleiron	Posted - 2009.05.25 09:25:00 - [4] With all the posts i've read about making titans more powerful, alas, a ray of sunshine appears. /signed
Diabolyc Amarr thx for all the fish	Posted - 2009.05.25 09:27:00 - [5] omfg is this topic real... 10/10 /signed
Kell Braugh Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.25 09:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Ahz This is the only way I can think of to limit the number of Titans in the game. This was your second mistake. You see a ship that is lol-practically-game-destroyingly-overpowered-in-groups and instead of thinking of powerful ways to change it away from just a DD delivery vehicle into something awesome, you just want to "limit" to number of 'DD delivery vehicles' by adding some arbitrary fuel cost that no other ship has and would be easily paid for by anyone/entity that owns and operated a titan. Your first mistake was thinking we cared. - In essence, any combat related activity involving damage has been 'speed nerfed' to just take 6 times longer with a predetermined outcome coined balance by CCP.
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.05.25 10:28:00 - [7] Not supported. Why there is so much push all the time to diminish the experience I have no earthly idea. I haven't seen a Titan yet (except the museum piece), in time I certainly want one, they seem like they have great potential as mining ships. Making Titans more costly to own is a silly idea. If you don't like the amount of Titans there are, there's a simple way of reducing their number: destroy them. There is no reason why there wouldn't be more Titans as more people enter the game and capsuleers acquire the skills and resources required to fly them as they grow older. This grocery store mentality, we sorely need to get rid of it. Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO
Lifelongnoob Caldari Final Conflict UK Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.05.25 11:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Abulurd Boniface Not supported. I haven't seen a Titan yet (except the museum piece), in time I certainly want one, they seem like they have great potential as mining ships. CEO why on earth would u mine with a titan? rorqual and some hulks is all ya need
Diabolyc Amarr thx for all the fish	Posted - 2009.05.25 11:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Lifelongnoob Originally by: Abulurd Boniface Not supported. I haven't seen a Titan yet (except the museum piece), in time I certainly want one, they seem like they have great potential as mining ships. CEO why on earth would u mine with a titan? rorqual and some hulks is all ya need wet dreams?
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.05.25 12:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Lifelongnoob why on earth would u mine with a titan? rorqual and some hulks is all ya need Because I'm not clocking in to do a job, you know. I'm in it for the great fun of looking at the universe in a different way. It's not about the vaunted ISK/hour equation or about war for war's sake, it is about the journey and how one travels. Life is -only- about the journey because the end is the same for everyone. Why mine in a Titan? Why the hell not? Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO
Kara Sharalien	Posted - 2009.05.25 13:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Abulurd Boniface Originally by: Lifelongnoob why on earth would u mine with a titan? rorqual and some hulks is all ya need Because I'm not clocking in to do a job, you know. I'm in it for the great fun of looking at the universe in a different way. It's not about the vaunted ISK/hour equation or about war for war's sake, it is about the journey and how one travels. Life is -only- about the journey because the end is the same for everyone. Why mine in a Titan? Why the hell not? Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO i think im in love.
Stick Cult	Posted - 2009.05.25 13:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Abulurd Boniface Why mine in a Titan? Why the hell not? Just about sums up my life right there. On topic though, if you don't like how many titans there are, go kill some.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.05.25 23:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Kell Braugh (..) and instead of thinking of powerful ways to change it away from just a DD delivery vehicle into something awesome, (..) So 160 times 'something awesome' instead of DD delivery vehicle would be less fail? ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Ahz	Posted - 2009.05.26 00:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Kell Braugh Your first mistake was thinking we cared. You responded didn't you?
Ahz	Posted - 2009.05.26 00:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Abulurd Boniface I haven't seen a Titan yet (except the museum piece), in time I certainly want one... That's kind of the problem. Stay in game long enough and you'll get one. So, will everyone else. Eve generates ISK continuously. Characters live for years. Sooner or later everyone will have the ISK to buy anything. Eve needs an ISK sink. Otherwise it's just a matter of time before 0.0 is lousy with Nyx's and Avatars bumping into each other.
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.05.26 02:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Ahz Originally by: Abulurd Boniface I haven't seen a Titan yet (except the museum piece), in time I certainly want one... That's kind of the problem. Stay in game long enough and you'll get one. So, will everyone else. Eve generates ISK continuously. Characters live for years. Sooner or later everyone will have the ISK to buy anything. Eve needs an ISK sink. Otherwise it's just a matter of time before 0.0 is lousy with Nyx's and Avatars bumping into each other. It is the natural progression of things. As we gain more ability so shall our ambition scale. Is that news to you? As the universe expands it will gain new features that are either more desirable or desirable in a different way. EVE is full of ISK sinks. Have you seen the heat map of ships destroyed lately? How much ISK do you think it takes to replace the space frames and fitting that is lost on a daily basis? Owning a Titan implies leaving Empire. Most people are in Empire space (well, technically it's all Empire, I mean nulsec, of course). I'm not the least bit worried about Titan proliferation. As EVE expands, there will be other things to spend ISK on. Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.05.26 02:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Abulurd Boniface EVE is full of ISK sinks. Have you seen the heat map of ships destroyed lately? How much ISK do you think it takes to replace the space frames and fitting that is lost on a daily basis? Destroyed ships generate ISK (hint Insurance hint). It is not an ISK sink. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.05.26 02:14:00 - [18] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Originally by: Abulurd Boniface EVE is full of ISK sinks. Have you seen the heat map of ships destroyed lately? How much ISK do you think it takes to replace the space frames and fitting that is lost on a daily basis? Destroyed ships generate ISK (hint Insurance hint). It is not an ISK sink. Yeah those T2 losses are real money makers
Ahz	Posted - 2009.05.26 02:30:00 - [19] Originally by: Abulurd Boniface As we gain more ability so shall our ambition scale. Is that news to you? Uhm. No. But individual ambition and game balance are two different things. When I joined the game two and a half years ago there were maybe a half dozen titans. Now there's 167 by the last count I've seen. I don't know what the right number is, but I'm pretty sure that there's something wrong with 2,000 Titans. And today there's nothing to stop that from happening. The whole idea of the post was to see that Titans stay rare and powerful. It also helps prevent CCP from having to add a tech II Titan next year and then a fully configureable Tech III Titan the year after that.
Dalton West Minmatar Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.05.26 05:39:00 - [20] Edited by: Dalton West on 26/05/2009 05:39:41 can a dev please take a DD Shuttle to jita and clear up the lags :) thanks
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2009.05.26 07:14:00 - [21] The entire game is a crescendo of wealth and power. Balance is inevitable. Just wait for it and you'll see.
Hatchette LePeqe	Posted - 2009.05.26 07:33:00 - [22] I think the solution is actually to make titans more useful than they are. This will cause them to be more used and thus more vulnerable to be attacked. example - make their normal weapons deal a lot more damage, and totally ignore dreads' siege damage reduction
Hariya	Posted - 2009.05.26 16:58:00 - [23] 160? Putting things into proporsion (of sorts), that's like if the US Navy operated some 800 aircraft carriers... Capships online sheesh
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.05.26 18:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Tarron Sarek Originally by: Abulurd Boniface EVE is full of ISK sinks. Have you seen the heat map of ships destroyed lately? How much ISK do you think it takes to replace the space frames and fitting that is lost on a daily basis? Destroyed ships generate ISK (hint Insurance hint). It is not an ISK sink. Yeah those T2 losses are real money makers If you're trying to smartass, then at least try to sound smart. Neither Battleships nor capitals are T2 ships. And yes, even T2 ship losses do create ISK out of nowhere. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.05.28 15:44:00 - [25] Originally by: Tarron Sarek And yes, even T2 ship losses do create ISK out of nowhere. You have to tell me how that works because I've lost a few Hulks in the mean time, never once did I get back anything remotely close to the money I paid for it. And that is sans fitting, rigging and the stuff in the hold. And you can turn that into a profit? envy Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease.
Doctor Penguin Amarr Heavy Influence Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.28 15:57:00 - [26] Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 28/05/2009 15:57:43 The only worry I have with titans is when we start seeing the dreaded Quadruple DD. Other than that, from personal experience I can confirm that all titans are are portable jump bridges that can jump you around really easily, and can act as a fantastic base of operations. ________________________________________________ http://eve.drome.nl/CaodCleaner/ Help make CAOD readable.
Teras Menac Gallente Action Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2009.05.28 20:01:00 - [27] Edited by: Teras Menac on 28/05/2009 20:05:19 Edited by: Teras Menac on 28/05/2009 20:03:08 Originally by: Jin Nib Originally by: Tarron Sarek Originally by: Abulurd Boniface EVE is full of ISK sinks. Have you seen the heat map of ships destroyed lately? How much ISK do you think it takes to replace the space frames and fitting that is lost on a daily basis? Destroyed ships generate ISK (hint Insurance hint). It is not an ISK sink. Yeah those T2 losses are real money makers Not to mention the 1-3% isk sink that occurs on EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION. Or the purchase of a POS or other item that is only available from NPCs, or the purchase of BPOs, or buying something from the LP store that requires Isk. Or using a location agent. Or renting a manufacturing slot, or renting an office in a station. Anyone who says that Eve needs and Isk sink is really too stupid to be talking about market interactions in the first place.
Zanes Shoubje	Posted - 2009.05.28 22:43:00 - [28] Adding maintenance cost to owning a titan or maybe other capitals sounds like a good idea. If the cost is big enough you could perhaps lower the initial cost of building one but still make it more difficult to keep one operational. If it is more difficult owning bigger capital ships, more room is create between the ship sizes. You could introduce new capital ships with other roles and costs. This way you keep the titan as biggest ship while creating more variety below it.
Backdaft	Posted - 2009.05.28 22:57:00 - [29] Titans do need some love. Some posters here are right. Make them more useful and more will get used AND destroyed. Just some ideas off the top of my head. DD's take scripts. Add a focused fire script that can direct all the energy/damage at ONE other capital ship or titan. Damage will scale by target sig. Let this weapon recharge every 5 mins with this script in. Let the titans duke it out. Let titans have a siege mode that anchors them like POS's -a frikkin' sharks with lasers, brissling with auto-deployed weapon pods to keep enemy support fleets at bay. And its own stront bay, with massive resists that should exist with a 50 to 70 Bil POS. Anchors for 24 hours minimum, and reinforced mode can be sustained indefinately as long as the owning corp/alliance can continue to get stront into it. The point of the enemy putting it into reinforced mode would be to make it a massive stront/isk sink for the owning corp. And you could have reinf mode shutdown services like clone bays, but not refit/repair. But while anchored it would provide station-like services and it's "siege-mode" focus fire DD could force enemy cap ships to stand off. It would be a "home base" for support fleets to amass and rally around. It would shift some of the warfare away from POS's. Such an anchored titan would still be able to create jump bridges -as long as it's not reinforced. Maybe it needs some fine tuning, but the idea is to make each side in a war commit more resources and RISK more. In a fleet of titans one could be the homebase while the others rally around it, support and protect it. With this theme in mind you could also have a Titan class remote repper, for repairing the homebase, or for having the homebase "triage mode" repair nearby friendly titans and other cap ships. Downside: Could make Stront prices go thru the roof. ----- I've said it before, I'll say it again - CCP hates logistics players. FIX THE CONTAINERS!
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.05.29 12:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Zanes Shoubje Adding maintenance cost to owning a titan or maybe other capitals sounds like a good idea. If the cost is big enough you could perhaps lower the initial cost of building one but still make it more difficult to keep one operational. If it is more difficult owning bigger capital ships, more room is create between the ship sizes. You could introduce new capital ships with other roles and costs. This way you keep the titan as biggest ship while creating more variety below it. I don't support the notion of added maintenance costs. The entire notion of continuously nerfing features is repugnant. Why is this necessary? It's all a matter of balance. If people are afraid to risk their Titans because of their decidedly non-trivial cost, why not offer a challenge with a substantial reward and the risk that comes with it? I don't drive a Titan [yet] I don't know what the scope of owning one is [again, yet]. I can't say whether they exist or not, but why not have level 5 missions in nulsec that require Titans to complete? Is that not a logical extension of the whole mission idea: introduce a mission [insofar they do not already exist] that require a Titan to complete. I'll write you a scenario if you insist. Of course the Titan is at risk, what would be the fun if there was not that real risk involved? The prize for success is, of course, equally substantial. Sometimes the Titan driver wins, sometimes they don't. Notions of ISK sinks or silly costs are really a bad substitute for a little imagination. Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease.

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