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K1K1R1K1
Minmatar
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.22 02:52:00 -
[1]
So I was doing a little militia work a while ago and decided to do some hit n run solo. Mostly I ran into gate camps dominated by frigates and some cruisers so I decided to bust out my Thrasher.
My setup was (it barley fits, I have to use a 3% powergrid implant):
High:
7x T2 280mm Tremmor
Mid:
MWD
Sensorbooster T2 range screipt
Tracking Comp T2 optimal script
Low:
Gyro T2
RCU T2
Optimal + Falloff: 47+11
Targeting: 54km
Speed 2050m/s
alpha: 882
dps: 93
It's a very nice setup for the most part. It can keep it's distance from most frigates (at least long enough to pop em), and it has a nice range buffer (for said frigates). The problem I have though is interceptors. They go 4-5km/s and close my little range buffer usually before I get my second salvo off (even if I'm mwd'ing away from them). By then all his buddies are on me too and I'm done for. So I'm back at the drawing board and I'm looking at the Cormorant. This is the setup I came up with.
Highs:
7x 150mm T2 Railgun, Spike
Med:
2x T2 Sensor Booster, Targeting Range script
2x T2 Tracking Comp, Optimal script
Low:
T2 RCU
Optimal + Falloff: 95+7.5
Targeting: 110km
Speed 305m/s
alpha: 292
dps: 72
It's a very simple and straight forward setup. Lots of range, lots of guns, extra range, and then some more range on top of that. It's dps is about 23% lower than that of my thrasher and the speed is significantly lower. However, the range is double that of the thrasher. But with such a low dps, realistically, I would probably only disrupt a gate camp of smaller ships (maybe killing the random afk orbiting pilot).
I have no doubt in my mind that either of these ships would preform perfectly in a battle scenario where drones and frigates would be harassing the bigger ships in my gang, but I'm talking solo hit and run on camping gangs composed of primarly cruisers and a handful of frigates. How do you think the cormorant would preform? What would you use/change?
Also, anyone here have any experience using the ferox as a frigate popper? I've always wondered how it's medium turrets would preform.
Thanks.
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Don't worry aboutit. |
Lidirt
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.22 05:43:00 -
[2]
Have you considered a stealth bomber?
You can boosh a whole gate camp if they're in t1 frigs/cruisers. :-D
Always good fun. Far more expensive than your Destroyers, but cheaper than a Ferox for that sort of thing.
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4THELULZ
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Posted - 2009.05.22 05:47:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Have you considered a stealth bomber?
Stealth bomber != solo ship
Quote:
You can boosh a whole gate camp if they're in t1 frigs/cruisers. :-D
And if they stand perfectly still and don't swarm and murder you.
Quote:
Always good fun.
Yeah I love dying horribly.
Quote:
cheaper than a Ferox for that sort of thing.
Have you by any chance ever heard of insurance? Hint: stealth bombers lack it.
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Shardrael
Caldari
Titan Industries Technology Team
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Posted - 2009.05.22 06:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lidirt
Have you considered a stealth bomber?
You can boosh a whole gate camp if they're in t1 frigs/cruisers. :-D
Always good fun. Far more expensive than your Destroyers, but cheaper than a Ferox for that sort of thing.
1.) bombs dont work in lowsec
2.) if a frig pilot is smart and doesnt have his mwd going when the bomb goes off it wont do that much dmg to him.
to the op the ideal ships for this are dictors if you like the destroyer thing as they are actually fast enough to run from ceptors a bit, or more relaistically hacs because they can bend anything cruiser and below over a bench and give it to em rough no lube.
for anti ceptor dudy zealot and vaga are perfect. If they are to expensive then maybe try your luck with an assault frig although that will be more hit or miss.
Signature locked. Please submit a petition to discuss the matter further. Navigator |
Magnus Castaneus
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2009.05.22 07:12:00 -
[5]
for the thrasher, i would fit 250mm IIs... then you probly wouldnt need to fit that nasty RCU and maybe put a speed mod in there... the 250s also have a faster rate of fire and the same falloff, just a bit shorter optimal, and faster tracking, so maybe you can get off 2 vollies instead of one... but thats just me...
heres the setup i would use if i were you, using your preferences
highs:
7x 250mm II
mids:
1mn mwd II
sensorbooster II
tracking comp II
lows:
2x gyrostab II
or
gyro II
OD II
might do better
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.05.22 11:53:00 -
[6]
micro aux power core will probably give you more grid than a rcu2 and much cheaper
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.05.22 14:05:00 -
[7]
Thrasher inty popper:
High
280mm II x 7
Med
MWD I
Tracking computer w/ tracking script
Named TP
Low
Gyro II
MAPC
Tracks like a god. Use faction ammo and not Tremor. RFEMP gets you 1369 alpha. Interceptors won't get under your guns w/ this setup.
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K1K1R1K1
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.22 15:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
Thrasher inty popper:
High
280mm II x 7
Med
MWD I
Tracking computer w/ tracking script
Named TP
Low
Gyro II
MAPC
Tracks like a god. Use faction ammo and not Tremor. RFEMP gets you 1369 alpha. Interceptors won't get under your guns w/ this setup.
The problem is that even with emp, you still wouldn't one-volley an inty (inties have about 1100hp w/out skills applied and w/out taking resistances into account). Combine that with low range, insane speeds, and a tiny bit of lag and you'll never get a second salvo off.
Same for the 250mm's you mentioned Magnus. The range becomes so low that they're essentially on top of you by the time the first salvo is off. These setups would work no prob against AF's and t1 frigates, but that's not the issue. I have no problem popping those. The problem is that they're usually accompanied by insanely fast interceptors that will pounce on me the second I get within range. At 5km/s, 40km range is nothing even when you take into account your 2km/s speed in the opposite direction. How do you deal with that? I'm still a couple days from being able to use t2 railguns so I'll let you guys know how that goes. *crosses fingers*
_______________________________________
Don't worry aboutit. |
Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.05.22 18:45:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Zarnak Wulf on 22/05/2009 18:47:08
At the optimal range you mention you're using Tremor. Tremor has a 75 percent tracking penalty. You want tracking ability and not range for interceptors.
What lvl have you trained destroyer to? What is your gunnery at? Do you specifically have your tracking support skill to 5?
My 280mm II guns have an 80-90 percent chance of hitting an interceptor at 11km w/ a transversal of 5km/s. They have a 50-60 percent chance at 5km. My tracking is .16 something on each gun and then I throw a target painter on top of that. When an interceptor gets really close to you get excited as they have to go that much further to get out of your killzone. You also want your alpha over 1k. It sounds like you need more skills in this area tbh.
Lastly - know your target. You want to carve frigates away from the heavier ships. 15 seconds alone w/ an inty is what you want. You might have to warp from belt to belt. Or create bookmarks around familiar gates. Or bug out if the frigates don't bite.
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K1K1R1K1
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.22 19:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
Edited by: Zarnak Wulf on 22/05/2009 18:47:08
At the optimal range you mention you're using Tremor. Tremor has a 75 percent tracking penalty. You want tracking ability and not range for interceptors.
What lvl have you trained destroyer to? What is your gunnery at? Do you specifically have your tracking support skill to 5?
My 280mm II guns have an 80-90 percent chance of hitting an interceptor at 11km w/ a transversal of 5km/s. They have a 50-60 percent chance at 5km. My tracking is .16 something on each gun and then I throw a target painter on top of that. When an interceptor gets really close to you get excited as they have to go that much further to get out of your killzone. You also want your alpha over 1k. It sounds like you need more skills in this area tbh.
Lastly - know your target. You want to carve frigates away from the heavier ships. 15 seconds alone w/ an inty is what you want. You might have to warp from belt to belt. Or create bookmarks around familiar gates. Or bug out if the frigates don't bite.
My destroyer skill is at 5 and so are all applicable gunnery skills (maybe a couple are at 4). So SP isn't much of an issue. I wasn't aware though that at such close range artillery can still track so well. If that's the case then maybe I just need to tweak my thrasher setup a little to bait interceptors one at a time. I need test it a little as a 5km/s trans seems insane for arty to hit at 5-10km, but maybe if I try the tp like you mentioned the sig size would make up for it?
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Don't worry aboutit. |
Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.05.22 19:43:00 -
[11]
Sig radius and tracking are directly related. I fear AB AF more then MWD inties.
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E villMonkeigh
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
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Posted - 2009.05.23 09:52:00 -
[12]
Edited by: E villMonkeigh on 23/05/2009 09:55:05
Don't give up the ship!
(Thrasher >>>>> Cormorant any day of the week)
Your setup is pretty solid, but may I suggest following tweaks:
1. RF EMP is ammo to use as Zarnak suggested. Greater damage, + tracking.
2. Swap to TRACKING scripts on your computer.
3. Swap to SCAN RES script on your sebo so you get off that 1st volley faster OR swap it for a target painter to boost tracking.
4. MAPC > RCU for PG. (In fact I have dropped to only 6 280mms in my current fit and still instapop frigs easily. Even 6 280s are better than 250s).
If you're heavily outnumbered you will go down of course. But you will defininitely down the 1st inty coming to tackle you, and some of his mates too.
Don't worry if they're close; with your skills (destroyer 5) and modifications above it shouldn't make any difference.
Your fit is right, tactics (MWD away/towards) are right; but your philosophy (Super range tank) is flawed. Go for tracking and/or quick lock time over range. That's what the destroyers bonuses are for.
PPS: Do you instapop many? Last 3 of 4 I engaged simply went 'poof'. And the Stiletto (MSE I presume) gate jumped in structure.
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