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Alatine Rayl
Eternal Legion Nite's Reign
0
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Posted - 2011.09.15 21:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was mining over in Oisio in my retriever (can't fly or afford and Hulk because I'm new) earlier today, minding my own business, when a guy comes out of nowhere, jettisons a can, takes all of my ore from my can and puts it into his nice new one. I knew I couldn't fight him (I saw him kill a hulk earlier on) so I just warped out and docked, not even collecting my drones. He then apologised claiming he didn't know I was so new and left the ore he stole from me in his can. I went to back to the belt to take a look (foolish, I know) and he hadn't left the can blue. I figured he was cloaked or something, waiting for me to open it and then blast me to pieces. I figured I might as well just fly back to the station and cut my losses.
I wanted to know if there's a way to combat these kind of people? I know about secure containers but they can't hold anywhere near as much ore. They'd actually be no point as my retriever can hold a good 3000 m3. Thanks |
Jason McCoy
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.09.15 21:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
You dont. Thin about it for a second.
If you jet a can, you arent minding your own business. You are just asking for trouble. Hard to believe but its the reality of eve.
Be pro-active instead of re-active. Proactively seek ways to prevent any can flipping interaction by not jetting a can at all. Take your time and warp back to station. If this is too much work for you, find a belt that is closer to your HQ station and mine those belts instead across the entire system.
Its better to waste the warp time, than to waste an entire jet can of ore.
If it were me stealing your ore, I dont do it for the pvp opportunity, but I have my corp buddy waiting in an itty 5 and we use the ore. Thanks come again! |
Steve Ronuken
Cossette Moana
0
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Posted - 2011.09.15 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Drop a bunch of secure cans. The idea is to cut out your travel time back and forth, so you drop a line of cans, moving along it and filling them as you go, before then coming and collecting the contents. Not as efficient as a jet can, but a hell of a lot more secure.
if you can afford it, set up a few lines in different systems. that way, if someone else munches all the rocks in range, you can move onto another line.
Or try and joining a mining corp, that runs ops. Or at least has people willing to haul. That's the better option. You'll have to pay them, but I'd expect them to save you at least 1 cycle in 4. |
Alatine Rayl
Eternal Legion Nite's Reign
0
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Posted - 2011.09.15 22:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Drop a bunch of secure cans. The idea is to cut out your travel time back and forth, so you drop a line of cans, moving along it and filling them as you go, before then coming and collecting the contents. Not as efficient as a jet can, but a hell of a lot more secure.
if you can afford it, set up a few lines in different systems. that way, if someone else munches all the rocks in range, you can move onto another line.
How long do secure cans last before they disappear?
Oh, and a totally unrelated question: is mining even a good way of making ISK? |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company Red Rock Consortium
2
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Posted - 2011.09.15 22:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alatine Rayl wrote:Oh, and a totally unrelated question: is mining even a good way of making ISK?
Mining is a decent way to make ISK that doesn't require a lot of concentration. If you want to be in-game but not totally paying attention then it's an enjoyable activity. If you want an activity to really make ISK then incursions or missions are probably the way to go. I haven't undocked my Hulk in months and prefer to go exploring instead.
At last month's ore prices I think a maximum skilled Hulk pilot with a mind linked Orca mining director might have been able to hit 10 million ISK per hour. Probably closer to 8 million but I'm not checking my numbers right now. Not great but its better than nothing if you are studying or working on something else.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
21
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Posted - 2011.09.15 22:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Look for systems with less people in local than asteroid belts. Amarr and Khanid space are especially lightly populated. Ombey's 2D EVE Maps and DOTLAN :: EveMaps can help you find a less travelled system.
You can also mine in completed mission deadspace before turning-in the mission, or grav sites (require effort to find).
Alatine Rayl wrote:How long do secure cans last before they disappear? When anchored, a secure container lasts 30 days from the last time it was opened.
Alatine Rayl wrote:Oh, and a totally unrelated question: is mining even a good way of making ISK? Not really. Missions make much more, but require more attention. I only recommend mining if you in fact enjoy mining.
Beginner's guide to * MAKING ISK * in EVE-Online |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
59
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Posted - 2011.09.15 23:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
you did the right thing honestly, he was bad at pvp so he needed to kill miners. the best thing u could have done was recall drones, fill your current cargo and warp back to station.. use secure containers if u dont have friend in an orca to haul for you. they last like 20 days or something, worth it imo. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.09.16 00:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
You were wise to fly away. The way to combat these guys is to make their sport boring. You could try mining into an orca if you have a corp mate with an orca. This elimiates any possiblity of can flipping. You could also have a friend in a very strong gank and cloaked ship jet cans for you. . then when your can flipper flips the can the cloaker in wait decloaks and tries to lock/kill him. This guy has to be sure he can take whatever is flying in.. the main drawback is adds coming in to help.. and the aggro period after the event ..you're better off avoiding the nusence conflict.
Most of the time the amount flipped into a can is so small it's really not worth fighting over anyway. I laughed at a flipper once who flipping about the amount that I would get turning on my miners and immediately turning them off again . Some of these guys really have no clue. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Aqualonda
Narabedla
0
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Posted - 2011.09.16 05:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
GSC? Flying back to the station? Don't do any of these things, the bother isn't worth it. Just accept that once in a while you'll lose a can of ore. Pirates get bored easily, so if one flips your can just do nothing and wait. He'll soon leave, but whatever you do, don't take back the ore.
One thing you can do is get a second account. With the buddy offers you'll often get a month or two free on it, more than enough time to train an alt to fly a hauler.
Try it. Once you realize how nice it is to be able to just transfer ore -> can -> hauler you'll realize how valuable having a second account for mining is.
Halada's Guide to Mining is an invaluable reference for the budding miner. Halada recommends the second account, and goes into more detail as to why. |
Kharaxus
Death Troopers IMPERIAL LEGI0N
0
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Posted - 2011.09.16 06:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
I very rarely get bored/lazy enough to jetcan anymore. Usually only because I am desperate, because I am in a mission site and found big nuggets, dont want to turn off my miners, and hauler alt is 6 systems away, but on his way.
But yeah, can flippers is a noob way to **** off noobs. Later they graduate to becoming ninja salvagers, except that takes some actual skill.
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servalaan
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.09.16 06:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Check out some Lv1 or2 mission sites ( the ones that contain asteroids) complete the combat element 'easy in a frig, destroyer or cruiser' but don't turn the mission in and voil+á....your own private mining site where you can more pretty much jet can mine without risk of being flipped at all. It something to consider until you can afford the hulk. |
Xearal
SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
10
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Posted - 2011.09.16 06:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Here's some of the tricks I've learned while mining:
- Get an orca alt, use it as a giant can. Don't part your orca unmanned, there are people out there that can fly em and will board and fly off with it.
- When jetcanning, cut your losses and go somewhere more quiet OR
- Get a mammoth or Itty 5, it can hold a whole can in it's cargo. So what you do is, you fly to the flipped can, open it, align to station, then when you're at 75% speed and fully aligned, grab everything in the can and toss it into your hold, and quickly hit warp before he can catch you. Then wait out the 15 minute criminal timer.
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Alvar Kesh
Ealurian Shipyards
0
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Posted - 2011.09.16 08:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Another trick I saw is that you change to a noob ship and flip the can back. This way you get flaged but all the flipper can shoot is a noob ship, no big loss for you if it kills you and you can keep this up until he gets mad. The ore than you can retrieve using an alt or friend or wait out the 15min. Ealurian Shipyards' BPC shop |
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.09.16 11:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jason McCoy wrote:If it were me stealing your ore, I dont do it for the pvp opportunity, ..... !
Since when is killing defenseless miners a "PvP Opportunity"? Surely the pew-pew'ers haven't hit this low yet...........right?
.....right?
Rees Noturana wrote:Alatine Rayl wrote:Oh, and a totally unrelated question: is mining even a good way of making ISK? At last month's ore prices I think a maximum skilled Hulk pilot with a mind linked Orca mining director might have been able to hit 10 million ISK per hour.
This seems like quite a low estimate, as one full can of non-prime arkanor (with perfect refine, I believe) is around 10 mil in a decent market. Can fill almost 4 cans of anything in a lil under 2 hours myself, assuming I have t2 crystals for the Ore in question. And my skills are not maxed, I'm sure.
Herping yourDerp wrote: they last like 20 days or something, worth it imo.
Giant Secure Containers last forever, as long as they are interacted with at least once every 30 days. (take something out, put something in, ect.) This is what I was told, anyway
Xearal wrote:Here's some of the tricks I've learned while mining:
- Get an orca alt, use it as a giant can. Don't part your orca unmanned, there are people out there that can fly em and will board and fly off with it.
- When jetcanning, cut your losses and go somewhere more quiet OR
- Get a mammoth or Itty 5, it can hold a whole can in it's cargo. So what you do is, you fly to the flipped can, open it, align to station, then when you're at 75% speed and fully aligned, grab everything in the can and toss it into your hold, and quickly hit warp before he can catch you. Then wait out the 15 minute criminal timer.
I think anyone asking about how to deal with canflippers and not trolling is no where near an Orca, let alone an alt =)
also, the Idea with aligning then warping off after grabbing your ore back is genius! so simple, yet why haven't I thought of that?
....on second thought, don't answer that =D
/end text wall
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Tikera Tissant
8
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Posted - 2011.09.16 12:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
There are several ways.
First, don't jet-can :P
But seriously, there are options. Like going to a bit more remote location to mine. There aren't as many jet-can pirates the further you go from main hubs.
Another option is using huge secure containers. They can't steal anything from those. They are pretty cheap and they only require anchoring level 1.
Another option is using bait, and as a friend to fleet with you, he will put the can, and if a pirate shows up, your friend can kill him if he has a decent ship and modules.
Other than that, as long as you jet-can mine, there aren't that many options. You can reduce the amount of ore you jet before getting your hauler, in order to save as much as you can from pirates.
Anyway good luck. Mining is a decent quiet money making profession. Don't give up :) |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
0
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Posted - 2011.09.16 14:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
I used to jet can mine but don't anymore. It is fairly easy to find good mining systems even near trade hubs that are fairly quiet that enable you to do jet can mining. Especially systems with no stations in them. Occasionally you will get caught out but not often. If you do get caught just add the offender to your contacts list so they come up on-screen when they log on. Flippers will usually stay in the same area so if they have logged on stop jet-canning. Can flippers get famous fairly quickly. 'Armtoe' is the most famous one I know of. 'Silas Cooper' & 'Edward Flint' are other notables although they have supposedly moved onto industry and nul-sec respectively. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
4
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Posted - 2011.09.16 15:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
I've been mining for years and have never once had a can of mine flipped. The best way to handle it is just to find a quiet backwater system and mine there in peace. Just find a dead-end system atleast 6-7j from any major trade hub with less than 10 belts and it should be pretty quiet most of the time.
Another option is to get a friend/alt with an Orca and mine into them, that completely removes the can and gives you a ton of room and some nice boosts. It's not for the solo miner though, mostly for small to med groups of miners. |
Gabbie Tinks
0
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Posted - 2011.09.18 08:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quote:Rees Noturana wrote: Alatine Rayl wrote: Oh, and a totally unrelated question: is mining even a good way of making ISK?
At last month's ore prices I think a maximum skilled Hulk pilot with a mind linked Orca mining director might have been able to hit 10 million ISK per hour.
This seems like quite a low estimate, as one full can of non-prime arkanor (with perfect refine, I believe) is around 10 mil in a decent market. Can fill almost 4 cans of anything in a lil under 2 hours myself, assuming I have t2 crystals for the Ore in question. And my skills are not maxed, I'm sure.
Your assuming there is arkonor to mine, Original post said mining in retriever so I'd assume he is mining in high sec as 0.0 rats would tear up a retriever very easily, and why can flip in 0.0 ....for high sec the numbers are pretty close. 1 jet can of Veldspar is about 2.8million. 4 per hour would be 11.20 mill per hour. Assuming no stops, no hauling, no anything but just grinding rocks.
http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore Excellent site to price ore per jet can to decide what to be mining. |
Mudkest
Adventurers Matari Visionary Coalition
0
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Posted - 2011.09.18 09:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
how to deal with can flippers? easy, dont mine near densly populated areas. Mine in jita or rens and your can will be flipped, go some 10-15 jumps away and it'll be a rare day to get your can flipped |
bootow
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.18 14:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Before my alt got to fly industrials i would drop multiple cans with 1 or 2 ore in them. rename them some random code. Just remember the main can you're using. |
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BRAKA
Nexus Research and Development United Destiny
0
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Posted - 2011.09.19 05:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
only two ways to deal with it effectively :
#1 - bm a few spots in the belt with a decent amount of ore around your ship.... mine till your full then dock and drop off what you've mined. Warp back to one of your bm's and repeat
#2 - get a second account or a friend and use an orca |
Karak Bol
Cable Innovations
0
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Posted - 2011.09.19 06:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
I prefer to stay calm, chat them up and then... I scam them by jettisoning a single Veldspar
No really. Every second this flipper wastes guarding his can, is a second another miner can do his work. And its really fun smacking this guys for hours |
Zephyrus II
Ganarak Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.09.19 16:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
When I do it, I don't screw around. If they start playing games then you know they probably aren't ever going to take the can anyway. In that case, if there's an indy buddy around, I bring him in and get him to take the ore. If not, I just pop the can. More efficient by far. |
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
3
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Posted - 2011.09.19 16:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mudkest wrote:how to deal with can flippers? easy, dont mine in densly populated areas. Mine in jita or rens and your can will be flipped, go some 5-10 jumps away and it'll happen a lot less(if at all depending on the system you are in)
This is really it in a nutshell. All the other suggestions are great but don't do much for a guy flying a retriever. |
stavrious
Plovdiv Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 08:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Alvar Kesh wrote:Another trick I saw is that you change to a noob ship and flip the can back. This way you get flaged but all the flipper can shoot is a noob ship, no big loss for you if it kills you and you can keep this up until he gets mad. The ore than you can retrieve using an alt or friend or wait out the 15min.
if you do that he will simply can flip it again and you end up exactly in the same situation minus one noob ship |
Satav
Latinum Exports
11
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Posted - 2011.09.21 18:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Invest in an alt. an Orca alt to be precise.
Most things in eve take at least 2 account to be practical in time and money. ________________________________________________________________________________________________
"250 Hellcats inbound sir! They have us outmanned and outgunned. What are we going to do?" "catnip of course......." |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
7
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
[quote=mxzf]I've been mining for years and have never once had a can of mine flipped. The best way to handle it is just to find a quiet backwater system and mine there in peace. Just find a dead-end system atleast 6-7j from any major trade hub with less than 10 belts and it should be pretty quiet most of the time./quote]
100% this. Also, there won't be any competition for the roids. The only time I'd mine in a busy system would be if I were in the mood to mess around with a can flipper for lulz.
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Alain Kinsella
2
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Posted - 2011.09.21 22:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Mudkest wrote:how to deal with can flippers? easy, dont mine in densly populated areas. Mine in jita or rens and your can will be flipped, go some 5-10 jumps away and it'll happen a lot less(if at all depending on the system you are in) This is really it in a nutshell. All the other suggestions are great but don't do much for a guy flying a retriever.
You can always do what I did at the time - mine ore in an Ice system. Keep Local (or other appropriate intel) in a separate window, dock when WTF messages start popping up.
Also, Retrievers are pretty easy to recoup their cost. I think I had mined enough to buy another (/w insurance) after an hour or so.
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Zleon Leigh
7
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Posted - 2011.09.22 03:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
A GSC's drop line does work very well, but of course a bit of work to get installed. One nice benefit is that if you don't feel like hauling when you finish mining you can just come back to them later.
1) Highly recommend that you anchor them right after downtime if at all possible. They have to be 2K meters away from any roids for the anchor to take. If someone has mined out a roid within the 2K limit it will pop the GSC when it respawns after the next downtime.
Beware! There is a bug that can cause GSC's to pop after a downtime, even if no asteroids are within the 2K limit. It is tied to a bug related to the 30 day access timer. I went round and round on a petition, them claiming that I hadn't revisited the GSC's within 30 days, even though I had anchored right after DT the day before. It was only when I was able to point out that I hadn't even been in the game 30 days, therefore not even owning any GSC's much less having anchored them, that I finally convinced them that there was a bug. Apologies and replacements were then provided, but left a really bad taste in my mouth about the handling of bugs by CCP. Never saw a release claiming to have fixed the problem, so bug is very likely still in play.
2) Agree with prior suggestion about anchoring in multiple systems - you can just mine until you drop, then came back and haul until you drop. :)
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. |
Mmily Ylimm
Zeewolf Corporation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.22 09:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Try to cut down travelling time for the hauler between GSCs by planting two or more lines 5 m apart, then you can do your mining / hauling down the middle of them. |
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