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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:43:00 -
[1]
This will be a BOND style offering
Length - 9 months Percentage - 7% Interest paid - monthly Total amount being sought - 3.5b
Bond holders will be tracked via ledger and they are NOT transferable.
The capital raised from this bond will be used to purchase one to four prints of the various capital fitting modules and the neccessary start up minerals. When possible prints will be purchased fully researched, however the OP has access through NER to perform any necessary research on new prints.
The OP has identified 7 modules in two different regions that consistently return on average of 15-20% using Jita direct buy mineral cost.
Extrapolating this out over every module the OP has calculated a consistent return of approx 750m. Interest costs at approx 245m This gives the OP a pure profit of approx 500m per month. This excess will be saved to close out the bond at the end of the 9months and should be more than enough to close out the bond.
This might seem short and sweet, but the OP doesn't really think it gets any simpler than that. I see a market need and lack the existing capital to take advantage of it.
Some questions that might arise
Will you undergo an audit? No
Where are these items going to be built? High sec, Gallente Sov space and then trucked to sale locations. Any trucks through low sec will be done personally using a blockade runner.
To the next question.. where are they going to be sold that you think you can move this many? 5 different stations. Each of the 7 modules move on average 3 to 6 units a week depending on the location.
Do you have the skills to build these? Yes, and 30 slots between every toon on this account so I think I won't have a problem meeting the building deadlines. The plan requires at least a total of 40 units moved per month to meet interest payments. This is at worst, 40 days of build time. So even just two alts can handle the build load.
How are you going to source your minerals? At the build locations to be honest. Camping mineral buy orders is not on my high priority list so while deals will be attempted when its recognized that a particular mineral is on the up swing, for the most part minerals will be bought and source directly at the build locations for whatever sale price it is.
Even just 3 units requires upwards 9m trit, not something Im keen on collection and hauling myself or coordinating with others.
I see this as a very low maintenance operation of Log in. Check prices, buy minerals, stick unit in cooker, send interest payments, log out.
Do you plan any expansion? No, once the bond is done it will be done. You get your investment back and the final interest payment and I get to keep the prints and the operation going. If the calculations are correct, I should have more than enough to keep things running and a nice and tidy half a bil a month to profit from.
Why are they not transferable? I loathe extra work, and Im not going to get involved in a ****ing match between people who say they've paid someone else and hadn't, etc... Its just a giant ball of screw that I won't touch.
Why won't you go under an audit? I don't feel it would change anything and I don't want to pay anything either.
Will you lock the prints down with a trusted party? No
Why? Because, you'll either trust Im not a moron and a scammar or you don't. That and the build alt is actually in their own corp with standings, etc... Its just more work and I've already said I loathe extra work.
Will you offer buybacks? Yes, staged buybacks will be offered.
At 3 months 50% of your purchase will be available for buy back and any remaining amount after that at 6 months.
...any other questions will be answered here. If reservations are made and the required amount reached a start date will be determined and we can proceed.
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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:43:00 -
[2]
reserved |
Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:49:00 -
[3]
Forgot to add that there is no min or max in the amount of bonds you wish to purchase and that they will be sold in 100m blocks |
Mme Pinkerton
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:50:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Hardashi
Why won't you go under an audit? I don't feel it would change anything and I don't want to pay anything either.
It would change something - without an audit you won't have a realistic chance to raise public funding.
" Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. " |
Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:51:00 -
[5]
You won't undergo an audit, you won't offer collateral, and you don't offer any history to encourage trust in your offering.
Because you won't undergo an audit, we have no means to verify your statements regarding your capabilities, your market, or anything else.
I can't see why any investor who values their capital would invest in this.
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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Vikarion You won't undergo an audit, you won't offer collateral, and you don't offer any history to encourage trust in your offering.
Because you won't undergo an audit, we have no means to verify your statements regarding your capabilities, your market, or anything else.
I can't see why any investor who values their capital would invest in this.
Understandable.
I feel it is possible though, so here I am to answer any questions. |
Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hardashi
Will you undergo an audit? No
Will you lock the prints down with a trusted party? No
Neither of these really make any sense unless you want to scam.
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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Neither of these really make any sense unless you want to scam.
I like my privacy, but it is each individual persons call |
Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:01:00 -
[9]
So much for privacy, guys, I'm sorry to say that Hardashi is actually a Goon alt looking to steal your money. Sorry for wasting your time here, but I'm just trying to keep MD clean.
Wait, what's that? You claim you're innocent? Guess you need an audit now to prove you aren't a Goon alt.
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Beovylf
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hardashi
Why won't you go under an audit? I don't feel it would change anything and I don't want to pay anything either.
Yes, but an audit can improve or in this case, create, bondholder confidence that you are not a scammer. So... it's actually a rather sound investment.
Quote:
Will you lock the prints down with a trusted party? No
Ah, okay... but...
Quote:
Why? Because, you'll either trust Im not a moron and a scammar or you don't. That and the build alt is actually in their own corp with standings, etc... Its just more work and I've already said I loathe extra work.
You loathe the extra work and yet you are creating a bond offer with monthly payouts? If you loathe extra work, do what I do and invest with other people.
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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Wait, what's that? You claim you're innocent? Guess you need an audit now to prove you aren't a Goon alt.
While I'm not...
Technically an audit wouldn't remove that either. The zombie mob of my fictional goon army could be on a myriad of other accounts.
Nope just a guy with an idea and not much capital to work with. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:05:00 -
[12]
Quote:
This might seem short and sweet, but the OP doesn't really think it gets any simpler than that. I see a market need and lack the existing capital to take advantage of it.
Some questions that might arise
Will you undergo an audit? No
If you ask a yes off investors, why your no to an audit?
Yes is mutual.
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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Beovylf
You loathe the extra work and yet you are creating a bond offer with monthly payouts? If you loathe extra work, do what I do and invest with other people.
I loathe extra work. Of which having the prints locked down would cause since I would have to shuffle corporations and lose standing with the research toon's corporation. This is because the build times will require two characters building in unison.
The workload this bond will consist of is pretty cake.
Buy mins at location A Build at location A Sell some units at location A Ship some 4-5 jumps to location B
There is no more than a few hours of work there a week. |
Sol Mag'Ar
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:13:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sol Mag''Ar on 29/05/2009 18:16:01 Obvious scam is obvious.
This bond seems to be going the same route as 720's.
Well-written. Good grammar. Refuses an audit. No security whatsoever. Conflicted reasoning. (Loathes extra work but is starting a bond.)
Is that enough to break investor confidence? Perhaps not.
There is also a fundamental flaw in his plan that throws up a red flag. He claims that he will be buying all minerals at the station he's building because he can't be bothered to maintain Buy Orders, delivery contracts from bulk mineral sellers, or the logistics of mineral moving.
Deduction: At best, OP is lazy and isn't willing to put in much effort on this venture. He's in it for the quick isk. At worst, because the OP is lazy and wants quick isk, he is scamming.
~Solisk
P.S. I would also like to point out how unlikely it is for someone to be able to research markets for viable items and manufacture capital construction equipment without having a couple billion isk to start up this venture.
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Krathos Morpheus
Gallente Legion Infernal Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:18:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 29/05/2009 18:23:37
Originally by: Hardashi
Will you undergo an audit? No
Why won't you go under an audit? I don't feel it would change anything and I don't want to pay anything either.
Will you lock the prints down with a trusted party? No
Why? Because, you'll either trust Im not a moron and a scammar or you don't. That and the build alt is actually in their own corp with standings, etc... Its just more work and I've already said I loathe extra work.
We have seen recently that good words means nothing here. A good BP means nothing without the skills and claims that enables it. You're not asking for trust. Trust is built around facts, you're asking for faith. I think no level of supply should enable free isks for anyone. If you're asking for money you must provide all securities you can to make trust possible. Audit to ask money is like blueprints to building, if you want to get build or loan you have prerequisites you must fullfil first. It costs you, but you can not build without it. It's absurd to even try it.
EVE Knowledge
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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sol Mag'Ar
There is also a fundamental flaw in his plan that throws up a red flag. He claims that he will be buying all minerals at the station he's building because he can't be bothered to maintain Buy Orders, delivery contracts from bulk mineral sellers, or the logistics of mineral moving.
Perhaps a clarification should be made about the purchase of materials.
They will be bought at the station/system the units will be built at.
If trit is going for a spread of 4.2 sell / 4.01 buy, I will place an order for all required minerals at 4.1. My theory reasoning is that the order will fill quickly, within a day. This will be done especially on mats like mex, which has a spread of 28/32 last I looked.
Often the unit can be sold at the exact build location, you can confirm this yourself by searching for the various capital fittings and making a note of the station locations. There are only a few units in a few regions which would require any real transport and even then the distances are short. Within 3-6 jumps. Easy to be ferried in a Itty since I'll only be building 3 units of any one type at a time for the most part. |
Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sol Mag'Ar
P.S. I would also like to point out how unlikely it is for someone to be able to research markets for viable items and manufacture capital construction equipment without having a couple billion isk to start up this venture.
Clarification, these are not for the parts for the ships. These are for the fittings. Capital armor rep, shield boost, transfer, etc... |
Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sol Mag'Ar
P.S. I would also like to point out how unlikely it is for someone to be able to research markets for viable items and manufacture capital construction equipment without having a couple billion isk to start up this venture.
Not necessarily, there are niches out there to be had. I'm selling dreads in low-sec, but not the modules because its just too much hassle to keep track of all of them and keep them in stock constantly. There's certainly an opportunity for someone else to come in and sell mods in the same system I'm selling hulls.
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Sol Mag'Ar
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hardashi
Originally by: Sol Mag'Ar
There is also a fundamental flaw in his plan that throws up a red flag. He claims that he will be buying all minerals at the station he's building because he can't be bothered to maintain Buy Orders, delivery contracts from bulk mineral sellers, or the logistics of mineral moving.
Perhaps a clarification should be made about the purchase of materials.
They will be bought at the station/system the units will be built at.
If trit is going for a spread of 4.2 sell / 4.01 buy, I will place an order for all required minerals at 4.1. My theory reasoning is that the order will fill quickly, within a day. This will be done especially on mats like mex, which has a spread of 28/32 last I looked.
Often the unit can be sold at the exact build location, you can confirm this yourself by searching for the various capital fittings and making a note of the station locations. There are only a few units in a few regions which would require any real transport and even then the distances are short. Within 3-6 jumps. Easy to be ferried in a Itty since I'll only be building 3 units of any one type at a time for the most part.
Normally people with a Business Plan try to reduce as many unknown variables as possible. There is always a chance that you will not be able to fill your mineral requirements and don't seem to have a backup plan in place.
I also don't believe that you even have the skills to build any capital ship components. However, an audit would prove me wrong.
Also, you didn't seem to respond to my statement regarding the unlikelyhood of your meager finances. If you don't have the financial saavy to have 3.5bisk available to you to fund the project yourself, then why should anyone else trust you to manage their money?
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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sol Mag'Ar
Normally people with a Business Plan try to reduce as many unknown variables as possible. There is always a chance that you will not be able to fill your mineral requirements and don't seem to have a backup plan in place.
I also don't believe that you even have the skills to build any capital ship components. However, an audit would prove me wrong.
Also, you didn't seem to respond to my statement regarding the unlikelyhood of your meager finances. If you don't have the financial saavy to have 3.5bisk available to you to fund the project yourself, then why should anyone else trust you to manage their money?
The locations the units are being built at (Ours, Jita, Amarr) will have more than enough minerals.
Finances are small but not that meager. I could liquidate some ships, etc... and purchase a quarter of the planned operation focusing on some of the higher earning prints. The rest is tied up in a very small rig production operation which nets a very easy (it follows the same model as the proposed) return of 200m-300m or so a month. This amount gets turned into play time, so is not available to help fund expansion.
And I am honest that while you shouldn't technically trust me, I feel confident that the plan is solid stands on its own merits and warrants discussion. Hopefully there are enough potential investors out there willing to take a risk on me. |
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Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:38:00 -
[21]
I personally cannot fathom why anyone would invest in a venture where the OP effectively states that he is lazy. How is he going to run a successful business if he doesn't like work?
Work = ISK.
In any case, no audit and no collateral = scam, in my book.
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Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hardashi And I am honest that while you shouldn't technically trust me, I feel confident that the plan is solid stands on its own merits and warrants discussion. Hopefully there are enough potential investors out there willing to take a risk on me.
Translation: I hope there are enough blithering idiots out there who will give me undeserved funding.
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Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vikarion I personally cannot fathom why anyone would invest in a venture where the OP effectively states that he is lazy. How is he going to run a successful business if he doesn't like work?
Work = ISK.
In any case, no audit and no collateral = scam, in my book.
Following the same model as I do for rigs, it would only add another 2-4 hours a week of my time. |
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hardashi And I am honest that while you shouldn't technically trust me, I feel confident that the plan is solid stands on its own merits and warrants discussion. Hopefully there are enough potential investors out there willing to take a risk on me.
There is a difference between your plan and you.
If anyone invests in this, you're an idiot and I will mock you after the OP scams.
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Beovylf
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 29/05/2009 18:23:37
Originally by: Hardashi
Will you undergo an audit? No
Why won't you go under an audit? I don't feel it would change anything and I don't want to pay anything either.
Will you lock the prints down with a trusted party? No
Why? Because, you'll either trust Im not a moron and a scammar or you don't. That and the build alt is actually in their own corp with standings, etc... Its just more work and I've already said I loathe extra work.
We have seen recently that good words means nothing here. A good BP means nothing without the skills and claims that enables it. You're not asking for trust. Trust is built around facts, you're asking for faith. I think no level of supply should enable free isks for anyone. If you're asking for money you must provide all securities you can to make trust possible. Audit to ask money is like blueprints to building, if you want to get build or loan you have prerequisites you must fullfil first. It costs you, but you can not build without it. It's absurd to even try it.
Quoted for win.
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RothimusPrime
Honored By Death
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Posted - 2009.05.29 19:25:00 -
[26]
I'm always looking for an investment, but there are far too many unknowns here.
Initially I would take 200 mill worth if you put up the collateral or provided an audit. However, I doubt anyone will even give you the time of day after the downward progression of this topic throughout the day.
And 9 months is a LONG time... _______________________________
CEO of Honored By Death [HBDG] www.hbd-gaming.com |
Hardashi
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Posted - 2009.05.29 19:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: RothimusPrime I'm always looking for an investment, but there are far too many unknowns here.
Initially I would take 200 mill worth if you put up the collateral or provided an audit. However, I doubt anyone will even give you the time of day after the downward progression of this topic throughout the day.
And 9 months is a LONG time...
Which is why Im offering buy backs after 3 months and 6 months.
It might be possible to offering some collateral. I do have approx 1b in ships. Technically 1.5b with the orca, but I would need that to move minerals if needed. I do have in possession an unanchored large caldari tower as well. I had planned on anchoring this with the research alt corporation some time in the future though, but concession can be made.
I would also state that 3.5 is not a total requirement. The project could move forward in limited form with less prints and then expand as it profits. There are three key prints that could earn approx 30-50m per week each. Total cost to get the prints in all regions is approx 400m NPC price with an additional billion required in start up minerals. |
Chaos Dreams
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Posted - 2009.05.29 19:47:00 -
[28]
Don't let the naysayers get you down.
So you don't want an audit or collateral... This doesn't necessarily mean you're going to scam, but it does make people more reluctant to invest. I'll purchase the entire bond if you can prove you're serious. Tell you what, you send me ISK as a show of good faith and I'll return it at a 2:1 ratio upto the full bond amount.
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Mystafyre
Caldari Dark Materials Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.05.29 19:50:00 -
[29]
Just get the audit, MD will never approve anything without audit...
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.29 20:23:00 -
[30]
Well, since I'll have to start from somewhere, I offer to audit and eventually lock escrow stuff down for free (feel free to pay if you wish ).
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