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Hansolo1977
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Posted - 2009.05.30 21:46:00 -
[1]
I'm blazing through level 3 missions now, running them in a Megathron, or a Mrymidom. I rarely get into to much trouble and have to warp out, only on full agro, and then only once in a blue moon. How much more difficult are level 4's over 3's? Is it as big a jump from level 2's to 3's? 1-9 million a mission is nice, but I want more. I can usually finish the average mission in 20 minutes, with salvaging after in a Catalyst.
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Zakarazor
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Posted - 2009.05.30 21:50:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Hansolo1977
I'm blazing through level 3 missions now, running them in a Megathron, or a Mrymidom. I rarely get into to much trouble and have to warp out, only on full agro, and then only once in a blue moon. How much more difficult are level 4's over 3's? Is it as big a jump from level 2's to 3's? 1-9 million a mission is nice, but I want more. I can usually finish the average mission in 20 minutes, with salvaging after in a Catalyst.
the difrence between a lvl 3 and a lvl 4 is bigger than between a lvl 2 and a lvl 3. if you got problem with lvl 3s stay awya from lvl 4s...
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Dracthera
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.30 23:02:00 -
[3]
As long as you read through the mission guides and know what to expect, you can try running some L4's and see what happens. Just be prepared to warp out - get aligned with a planet or station as soon as you get inside the mission deadspace and make sure you kill any scrambling frigs first.
You can also set up a separate instance of the test server (SiSi) on your PC and try running them there as a trial. You don't risk losing your ship for real, and it's a great learning environment if you can deal with the occasional glitches.
Apto Quod Ususfructus |
Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.05.31 01:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Hansolo1977
I'm blazing through level 3 missions now, running them in a Megathron, or a Mrymidom. I rarely get into to much trouble and have to warp out, only on full agro, and then only once in a blue moon. How much more difficult are level 4's over 3's? Is it as big a jump from level 2's to 3's? 1-9 million a mission is nice, but I want more. I can usually finish the average mission in 20 minutes, with salvaging after in a Catalyst.
Just to give you an idea of the difference; I run most l4 missions in around 20 minutes or less now, and have a tank such that if I had to nip for a bio break in the middle of things I wouldn't have to warp out first. I recently went back and did a few level 3 missions for standings and everything except the extravaganzas and the timed spawn missions were taking me under 5 minutes, and many under a minute. In most cases it took me longer to get to the mission and back than it did to complete it.
If you are having to warp out 'occasionally' on a level 3 then you aren't ready for a level 4. when you are so bored with them that you can do them with your eyes closed, or more pertinently looking at the map screen as I had to do for a while, then you are ready for them.
I would suggest at least at first you find one or two other people who are at the nearly level 4 stage and gang up with them. You can then all concentrate on your tank secure in the knowledge your combined firepower will take anything down.
Thinking of starting a Corp? Corp Chief wanted, new players considered, click above for details |
TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.31 08:10:00 -
[5]
It's a similar jump in that some L4s may as well be L3s whereas a lot will hurt if you tried to do them underprepared.
Also if you don't aggro carefully some of them just turn nasty.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.05.31 09:07:00 -
[6]
Do not start level 4 missions until you have T2 light drones available.
When you do start, take friends who can help with spider tanking or even just remote repping from a logistics cruiser. Make sure everyone reads the mission guide to know what to expect.
The gap between level 3 and 4 is about the same as the gap between your first ever mission when you started the game (go and shoot that target drone) and level 3 missions.
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Maria Kalista
Amarr
Emerald Forest Securities
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Posted - 2009.05.31 09:17:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Maria Kalista on 31/05/2009 09:18:55
For level 4's to run you need to be able to run at least T2 hardeners + T2 large armor rep on a continuos base. (If you armor tank, no idea what the needs are for shield tanking).
Most (Sansha, Bloodraiders for example ) levels can be run with
2x T2 EM hardeners + 2x T2 Thermal hardeners + T2 LAR and maybe an T2 EANM (energized adaptive nano membrane)
Sometimes you need to add 2 extra hardeners (Ditch the EANM), sometimes you can do with less, depends on your skills and mission.
Try to see if you can run your BS with 5 T2 hardeners + 1 LAR more or less cap stable. If so, you can give it shot. What do you have to loose but your ship? 
Do load fully up on (T2) <-- edit) drones, carefully read the mission reports and have your ship aligned so you can warp out in case the mission is way over your head.
Watch out for web scramblers and drone aggro. Because without your drones you'll have a hard time whipping of the frigs from your hull.
Train up those long range targeting skills. Non dead space missions can be accessed with you 100+ KM away from the rats (warp to mission, cancel warp, warp again but now to a set distance). Sniping them off will make live so much easier, like in the 'blockade' or 'gone berserk' for example.
Originally by: Jacharian
This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in.
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Contralto
GCHQ
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Posted - 2009.05.31 11:32:00 -
[8]
Good advice above.
I would add that you should go for Serpentis missions to start with, Gallente ships have optimal resists for Serps. Fit an AB and get range as soon as you warp in. If webbed use lights to kill the frigs and continue out to 50km or more. From that range you can easily kite the rats and will take very little damage. If your using Blasters on the Mega you will have to turtle tank resulting in a lot more problems with keeping out of BS range.
Avoid Angel and/or missile spammer missions till you are comfortable with Serps. I would recommend the good old Domi over the Thron anyday. especially if you can use T2 sentries.
Corporation standings transfer service for Hisec Pos, 9.99 to Gallente, 9.64 to Minmatar
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skeljita
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Posted - 2009.06.01 01:51:00 -
[9]
level 4s become as easy as level 3s over time once your skills and ships/gear get better.
You will be running through them in 20 minutes eventually.
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Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.06.01 03:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: skeljita
level 4s become as easy as level 3s over time once your skills and ships/gear get better.
You will be running through them in 20 minutes eventually.
Redundant post as I said this already.
Player Since 2005
Over 4000 hours logged
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Agent Known
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.06.01 06:51:00 -
[11]
Good advice for me seeing how I'll be heading towards L4s in a few days.
That being said, what do you think I should be able to tank DPS-wise? Currently I have a passive-tanked drake that can handle 400 DPS (and it can tank all but 1-2 L3s permanently). Would somewhere around that be enough? Or should I think about using a Domi (cap stable...but total T1 fit except for drones)?
I might be rushing to L4s, but that's because my wallet's growing slim... 
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Maria Kalista
Amarr
Emerald Forest Securities
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Posted - 2009.06.01 07:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Agent Known
Good advice for me seeing how I'll be heading towards L4s in a few days.
That being said, what do you think I should be able to tank DPS-wise? Currently I have a passive-tanked drake that can handle 400 DPS (and it can tank all but 1-2 L3s permanently). Would somewhere around that be enough? Or should I think about using a Domi (cap stable...but total T1 fit except for drones)?
I might be rushing to L4s, but that's because my wallet's growing slim...
No idea about the drake, but domi wise....
I wouldn't even try it without T2 hardeners and a T2 LAR.
And 400 DPS? Some level 4 missions go well over 900 DPS.
About your rush toward level 4's, you do salvage/loot your missions do you?
Originally by: Jacharian
This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.06.01 10:45:00 -
[13]
Edited by: TraininVain on 01/06/2009 10:49:45
Well, a drake is adequate for some of them.
Probably much better with purger rigs though.
I find the missions it works for are the small ship heavy ones with only a few BS where mobility is a plus.
You can basically kite/speed tank most of the damage.
High than regular damage ammo is nice for the BSs.
OTOH others are quite BS heavy and it really does come down to a tank and spank contest at which point I'd rather have my BS.
Mind you that said, a 2SPR, 2LSE, 3 Hardener, 3 Core Purger rig shield tank is quite tough on a drake. I'd still worry about the lost DPS though.
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Dracthera
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.01 15:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Agent Known
That being said, what do you think I should be able to tank DPS-wise? Currently I have a passive-tanked drake that can handle 400 DPS (and it can tank all but 1-2 L3s permanently). Would somewhere around that be enough?
How much DPS you need to tank depends a lot on how much DPS you can dish out. You should be shooting for something on the order of 1000 combined DPS+Defense, so in your case if you're only tanking 400 rat-specific DPS you'll need about 600 DPS of your own to offset it for L4's. I'm guessing your Drake can only do about 250 DPS at the moment, so shoot for something closer to 700 rat-specific defense to start with.
Apto Quod Ususfructus |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.01 16:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tranka Verrane
Originally by: skeljita
level 4s become as easy as level 3s over time once your skills and ships/gear get better.
You will be running through them in 20 minutes eventually.
Redundant post as I said this already.
Please. No post police.
If one player says something - whoever they are - it only means so much. After all, most of what is being stated here is opinion. If another person posts the same thing - that serves to reinforce that opinion, so that the reader gets a collective impression from all the posts they read.
Of course if fifty people are all mouthing the same mindless dogma people spout because that's what everyone says ... it still doesn't mean anything. Outside of dogma drools though confirming posts tend to emphasize a thesis and plant it more clearly in the persons mind.
If you are writing a paper - you are supposed to say everything three times specifically for the purpose of reinforcing your ideas in the readers mind. In the Introduction - you tell them what you're going to tell them. In the Body of your work - you tell them. In the Summation you tell them what you told them. But - posts in threads don't allow enough space for that - thus, another player chiming in with their opinion is helpful. As in various systems Redundancy can be a good thing.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Sophia Truthspeaker
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.06.01 18:13:00 -
[16]
Ever did the bonus room of angel extra lvl3?
About that hard are the normal lvl 4. The hard lvl 4 are... quite a bit harder than that, and you really need to know what you are doing.
_________
The truth is out there |
Agent Known
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.06.01 20:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker
Ever did the bonus room of angel extra lvl3?
About that hard are the normal lvl 4. The hard lvl 4 are... quite a bit harder than that, and you really need to know what you are doing.
Yikes...that means I have a lot of work to do then. I was able to pop a couple ships, but I escaped with 10% shields left (although I should've warped out sooner). Then again, ALL the ships aggro you immediately, which makes it a bit difficult to do to begin with.
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Chathe
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.06.02 17:25:00 -
[18]
The biggest difference between level 3 and level 4 is the addition of alot of battleships to the mix.
So you get a mix of
frigates that jam and web you, that you can't kill with the weapons you need to take out..
The battleships that you need decent dps to break there tanks and kill them fast enough so that they don't break yours.
And a mix of cruisers / BC that add dps to the mix and can hit whatever you've brought.
So you need to be able to fit a ships that can drop BS's fairly quickly / then have something ( drones ) / partner to kill the frigates.
Then it's just the matter of watching the triggerships and killing them last, then the fitting of the right hardners etc.
I recently made the jump and it wasn't as scary as folks make it out to be.
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Sophia Truthspeaker
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.06.02 18:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chathe
The biggest difference between level 3 and level 4 is the addition of alot of battleships to the mix.
So you get a mix of
frigates that jam and web you, that you can't kill with the weapons you need to take out..
The battleships that you need decent dps to break there tanks and kill them fast enough so that they don't break yours.
And a mix of cruisers / BC that add dps to the mix and can hit whatever you've brought.
So you need to be able to fit a ships that can drop BS's fairly quickly / then have something ( drones ) / partner to kill the frigates.
Then it's just the matter of watching the triggerships and killing them last, then the fitting of the right hardners etc.
I recently made the jump and it wasn't as scary as folks make it out to be.
Another thing is, if there a bc, try to kill those first (if not trigger). They pop easily and have a lot of damage, by killing them pretty soon you remove a lot of imcoming dps.
_________
The truth is out there |
Kes Yogaila
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.03 23:16:00 -
[20]
The main difference is, if things go wrong you need to warp out, you need to have the capability of killing 3 elite scrambling frigates in worst case scenario. That means drones 5 with interfacing 3++.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.06.05 01:20:00 -
[21]
If you're flying a drake, just stick an afterburner and overdrive injector on it, train to T2 drones, read the mission guides carefully, and you'll be fine. You can slowly grind your way through a level 4 mission in an hour or so. Yes it's slow, but the income is far higher than a level 3 in the same ship.
Same deal in a myrmidon with a drone bay full of lights and mediums (all T2 of course).
Make sure you're aware of all the different forms of damage control and mitigation: shield tank, armour tank, speed tank, gank tank, and plain old "don't be where they can shoot you" aka range tank.
If your shield tank never falls below 30%, you're over-tanking. Of course, if your shield tank falls below 30% you're broken. If you're armour tanking and your capacitor never falls below 30%, you're over-tanking. Of course, if your capacitor falls below 30%, you're broken.
Never underestimate the power of the Dar... sorry, the utility of speed tanking. Even in a battleship, moving at 100m/s will reduce the damage of incoming missiles. Moving at 300m/s is better, of course.
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Kassa Daito
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Posted - 2009.06.05 03:04:00 -
[22]
I don't want to scare you away from 4s too long but you are probably not ready for level 4s if you ever needed to warp out of a level 3 since your last ship upgrade. The biggest difference between 3s and 4s is that in a 3 you can only really lose a ship by messing something up (not aligning, not warping out, hardeners turning off due to no cap, etc). However, in 4s you have to deal with warp scrambling frigates commonly so you can actually die in a L4 because you just aren't good enough (skills/fitting/tactics) for them.
For a level 4 as an armor tanker you should have:
5 T2 small drones & preferably medium drones with at least level 3 of Drone Interfacing
3-4 T2 Active Hardeners
and ability to perma-run (with at least 300-400DPS offense at the same time) either
1 T2 LAR (with rails/beam lasers/artillery)
or
2 T1 LARs (with pulses/blasters/autocannons)
If you can't permatank at least 600 DPS and/or pump out over than 500 DPS at >50km with a turret-based weapon (missiles can't pop frigates before they web you) you WILL lose your ship. You might get a hard mission on your first L4 or you could run for a week before you get scrammed and popped but it is inevitable without the right DPS & tank.
***************
Disclaimer: The above comments are generally my own opinions and do not necessarily represent those of my corporation or alliance. |
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