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Heiriess	Posted - 2004.09.13 03:39:00 - [31] That is crazy! As anyone knows, in a large fleet battle, with the lag you metioned anyone logging back in would be looking at a stuck screen. If, as a fleet, you can't organize your force enough to kill many battleships in 2 minutes, then you shouldn't even be in the fight. With two battleships focus firing on a tanked battleship, it generally does not last more than a minute, especially if you are talking about high damage setups (gankageddons etc). There is no way they were logging off, and logging back in and fighting effectively. The GMs can monitor log offs, so if on the off hand you are correct, they can trace the actions if you have the names. This is probably not the case so if you are going to whine about it, you should go back to mining.
Heiriess	Posted - 2004.09.13 03:39:00 - [32] That is crazy! As anyone knows, in a large fleet battle, with the lag you metioned anyone logging back in would be looking at a stuck screen. If, as a fleet, you can't organize your force enough to kill many battleships in 2 minutes, then you shouldn't even be in the fight. With two battleships focus firing on a tanked battleship, it generally does not last more than a minute, especially if you are talking about high damage setups (gankageddons etc). There is no way they were logging off, and logging back in and fighting effectively. The GMs can monitor log offs, so if on the off hand you are correct, they can trace the actions if you have the names. This is probably not the case so if you are going to whine about it, you should go back to mining.
Sally	Posted - 2004.09.13 04:42:00 - [33] ... Someone cycle jammed you, warped away and logged off because you bored him to hell with your triple numbers. Now you want the game mechanics changed so you can kill someone outnumbering him 3 to 1. Yawn. -- Stories: #1 --
Sally	Posted - 2004.09.13 04:42:00 - [34] ... Someone cycle jammed you, warped away and logged off because you bored him to hell with your triple numbers. Now you want the game mechanics changed so you can kill someone outnumbering him 3 to 1. Yawn. -- Stories: #1 --
C4w3	Posted - 2004.09.15 10:02:00 - [35] It¦s called WTFPAWNEGE. Cycle jamming is no exploit it¦s your own no0bness. We were beating you 3-1 and there is no magic to it, just expirience. And if you are wondering why you die so fast, here is a free tip of the day. Train PVP. Sincearly C4w3 CEO Corp 1 Field Marshal of the Curse alliance Forces. "If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and begin to taunt me, I will pull out a conventional one.
C4w3	Posted - 2004.09.15 10:02:00 - [36] It¦s called WTFPAWNEGE. Cycle jamming is no exploit it¦s your own no0bness. We were beating you 3-1 and there is no magic to it, just expirience. And if you are wondering why you die so fast, here is a free tip of the day. Train PVP. Sincearly C4w3 CEO Corp 1 Field Marshal of the Curse alliance Forces. "If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and begin to taunt me, I will pull out a conventional one.
Sun Wu	Posted - 2004.09.15 10:55:00 - [37] It's simple really. 1. Make ships stay in space with pilots in them when they log off. 2. Make ships in space with and without pilots in them show on the map. Problem solved. ________________________________
Sun Wu	Posted - 2004.09.15 10:55:00 - [38] It's simple really. 1. Make ships stay in space with pilots in them when they log off. 2. Make ships in space with and without pilots in them show on the map. Problem solved. ________________________________
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2004.09.15 11:21:00 - [39] Yes, make the ships stay in space forever. F'ing tired of puzziez logging off. If you lose your ship due to a CTD, tough *****, get a new ship.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2004.09.15 11:21:00 - [40] Yes, make the ships stay in space forever. F'ing tired of puzziez logging off. If you lose your ship due to a CTD, tough *****, get a new ship.
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.09.15 13:02:00 - [41] Is it me or have CA got a guilty conscience? Maybe its just me seeing them trying to palm of the idea of this happening? Hey, I could be wrong ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.09.15 13:02:00 - [42] Is it me or have CA got a guilty conscience? Maybe its just me seeing them trying to palm of the idea of this happening? Hey, I could be wrong ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
Rhonstet	Posted - 2004.09.15 13:55:00 - [43] See, its stuff like this which is why I play EVE for PvE and Planetside for PvP. Any tactic which includes the word 'log off' kinda takes away from the game. Since, you know, you're not actually playing at that point. The Monkeysphere
Rhonstet	Posted - 2004.09.15 13:55:00 - [44] See, its stuff like this which is why I play EVE for PvE and Planetside for PvP. Any tactic which includes the word 'log off' kinda takes away from the game. Since, you know, you're not actually playing at that point. The Monkeysphere
Amthor	Posted - 2004.09.15 14:24:00 - [45] LOL, you're killing me!! Ok, think back a second for me.. Did the fleet you were fighting have 1 or 2 scorps? ....... Got EW? Now do you see? Logging off in a fleet battle IS a death sentence. Your mods turn off and cease to be effective, drones stop attacking and any shield or repair mods stop working.... there is no advantage to logging off. I personally don't have enough experienced in cloaks to know if you can or can not cloak in combat. Just a thought. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I live, I will kill you, if I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Amthor	Posted - 2004.09.15 14:24:00 - [46] LOL, you're killing me!! Ok, think back a second for me.. Did the fleet you were fighting have 1 or 2 scorps? ....... Got EW? Now do you see? Logging off in a fleet battle IS a death sentence. Your mods turn off and cease to be effective, drones stop attacking and any shield or repair mods stop working.... there is no advantage to logging off. I personally don't have enough experienced in cloaks to know if you can or can not cloak in combat. Just a thought. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I live, I will kill you, if I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Keltin	Posted - 2004.09.15 14:51:00 - [47] I do the exact same thing Rhonstet. With people complaining about large battles, and all the problems with them, I just prefer my nice cookie cutter Planetside guy. Go in shoot some people and get back out. I enjoy the PvE element of EVE if they get a really good lag free working version of PvP I'll probably take a more active role. Right now it just seems silly the way people argue about this stuff daily. "I have never had so much fun playing a game that I have trouble staying awake playing!"
Keltin	Posted - 2004.09.15 14:51:00 - [48] I do the exact same thing Rhonstet. With people complaining about large battles, and all the problems with them, I just prefer my nice cookie cutter Planetside guy. Go in shoot some people and get back out. I enjoy the PvE element of EVE if they get a really good lag free working version of PvP I'll probably take a more active role. Right now it just seems silly the way people argue about this stuff daily. "I have never had so much fun playing a game that I have trouble staying awake playing!"
Amthor	Posted - 2004.09.15 15:04:00 - [49] Edited by: Amthor on 15/09/2004 15:07:53 Originally by: Pychian Vanervi Is it me or have CA got a guilty conscience? Maybe its just me seeing them trying to palm of the idea of this happening? Hey, I could be wrong It's not that we have a guilty conscience. We know from experience, if you CTD or log out, you might as well be ready to buy a new clone and a ship. If for whatever reason they are still being "effective" with this perceived "log-out" then one of two things are true, they are useing a EW tactic or you are losing a battle to were the opposing fleet is only there half of the time. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I live, I will kill you, if I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Amthor	Posted - 2004.09.15 15:04:00 - [50] Edited by: Amthor on 15/09/2004 15:07:53 Originally by: Pychian Vanervi Is it me or have CA got a guilty conscience? Maybe its just me seeing them trying to palm of the idea of this happening? Hey, I could be wrong It's not that we have a guilty conscience. We know from experience, if you CTD or log out, you might as well be ready to buy a new clone and a ship. If for whatever reason they are still being "effective" with this perceived "log-out" then one of two things are true, they are useing a EW tactic or you are losing a battle to were the opposing fleet is only there half of the time. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I live, I will kill you, if I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Sparhawk	Posted - 2004.09.15 15:19:00 - [51] Edited by: Sparhawk on 15/09/2004 15:35:04 Edited by: Sparhawk on 15/09/2004 15:34:01 Reading this I've noticed that there have been some assumptions made. (1) The ships are logging on AND off. Perhaps the ships are not logging back on. It may very well be that they are logging off, and new ships are logging on. (2) CA is logging in and out, and your just getting owned. (3) It is an exploit. Currently logging is not considered an exploit. Belt camping is another instance where logging is used extensively.
Sparhawk	Posted - 2004.09.15 15:19:00 - [52] Edited by: Sparhawk on 15/09/2004 15:35:04 Edited by: Sparhawk on 15/09/2004 15:34:01 Reading this I've noticed that there have been some assumptions made. (1) The ships are logging on AND off. Perhaps the ships are not logging back on. It may very well be that they are logging off, and new ships are logging on. (2) CA is logging in and out, and your just getting owned. (3) It is an exploit. Currently logging is not considered an exploit. Belt camping is another instance where logging is used extensively.
Amthor	Posted - 2004.09.15 16:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Sparhawk Edited by: Sparhawk on 15/09/2004 15:35:04 Edited by: Sparhawk on 15/09/2004 15:34:01 Reading this I've noticed that there have been some assumptions made. (1) The ships are logging on AND off. Perhaps the ships are not logging back on. It may very well be that they are logging off, and new ships are logging on. Well, its not unheard of for people to CTD but I can see how this might be so about people "logging-in" if it took place around a gate as most battles do. Originally by: Sparhawk (2) CA is logging in and out, and your just getting owned. This almost sounds like you're pointing out a fact. Originally by: Sparhawk (3) It is an exploit. Currently logging is not considered an exploit. Belt camping is another instance where logging is used extensively. This "exploit" was solved with the ship still being in space for 2 mins a long time ago.. you are calling it an exploit due to fact that you can't kill a defenseless pilot in under 2 mins? Forgive me for asking but I have not been in empire space since the first 2 months of the game.. what is this belt camping exploit you speak of? For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I live, I will kill you, if I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Amthor	Posted - 2004.09.15 16:18:00 - [54] Originally by: Sparhawk Edited by: Sparhawk on 15/09/2004 15:35:04 Edited by: Sparhawk on 15/09/2004 15:34:01 Reading this I've noticed that there have been some assumptions made. (1) The ships are logging on AND off. Perhaps the ships are not logging back on. It may very well be that they are logging off, and new ships are logging on. Well, its not unheard of for people to CTD but I can see how this might be so about people "logging-in" if it took place around a gate as most battles do. Originally by: Sparhawk (2) CA is logging in and out, and your just getting owned. This almost sounds like you're pointing out a fact. Originally by: Sparhawk (3) It is an exploit. Currently logging is not considered an exploit. Belt camping is another instance where logging is used extensively. This "exploit" was solved with the ship still being in space for 2 mins a long time ago.. you are calling it an exploit due to fact that you can't kill a defenseless pilot in under 2 mins? Forgive me for asking but I have not been in empire space since the first 2 months of the game.. what is this belt camping exploit you speak of? For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I live, I will kill you, if I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Amthor	Posted - 2004.09.15 19:55:00 - [55] How about this, Get into a frig and test this theory of yours with another corp mate. Have you or your corp mate preform this "rapid fire log off tatic" and see who gets thier A$$ handed to them first.. Please post your findings. No really, try it out and get back with us. I'd really love to see if this is true or not. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I live, I will kill you, if I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Amthor	Posted - 2004.09.15 19:55:00 - [56] How about this, Get into a frig and test this theory of yours with another corp mate. Have you or your corp mate preform this "rapid fire log off tatic" and see who gets thier A$$ handed to them first.. Please post your findings. No really, try it out and get back with us. I'd really love to see if this is true or not. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I live, I will kill you, if I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Zak Kingsman	Posted - 2004.09.15 21:17:00 - [57] I don't see that logging off would have any advantage over just warping away except that you wouldn't have to align to warp. Logging in and flying back into the mess that is a fleet battle at the same time... ouch.
Zak Kingsman	Posted - 2004.09.15 21:17:00 - [58] I don't see that logging off would have any advantage over just warping away except that you wouldn't have to align to warp. Logging in and flying back into the mess that is a fleet battle at the same time... ouch.
Urfin	Posted - 2004.09.16 00:19:00 - [59] Edited by: Urfin on 16/09/2004 00:21:16 Logging off and logging on in battle/to surprise your enemy formally should be considered an exploit, because it is a deliberate use of game mechanics to obtain an advantage these mechanics are clearly not meant to provide. But that's a difficult issue, considering how many other factors have to be taken into consideration when designing log on/log off mechanics. There's just no point in saying this particular implementation of log on/log off mechanic is 'bad' without considering all the other circumstances and situations where this mechanic comes into play, and may in fact be 'good'. For a gate camping blackbird that can't kill in 2 minutes a jammed & scrambled tanking apoc that has logged to save his butt, this may be bad. For the apoc that has saved his preciousss butt by logging, this may be good. There's also the deciding point of view here, CCP's - i.e. 'bad' = clients disappointed about losing ships to connection failures because we made ships stay in space for too long when they're not logged on). On a side note, Rhonstet has some very interesting reading linkage in his sig. I humbly suggest everyone not familliar with it to go and read, because it's a perfect example that all of this has already been thought of, said, and argued over many, many, many times (not that it shouldn't be argued over some more, but the same old arguments & counterarguments aren't getting us anywhere).
Urfin	Posted - 2004.09.16 00:19:00 - [60] Edited by: Urfin on 16/09/2004 00:21:16 Logging off and logging on in battle/to surprise your enemy formally should be considered an exploit, because it is a deliberate use of game mechanics to obtain an advantage these mechanics are clearly not meant to provide. But that's a difficult issue, considering how many other factors have to be taken into consideration when designing log on/log off mechanics. There's just no point in saying this particular implementation of log on/log off mechanic is 'bad' without considering all the other circumstances and situations where this mechanic comes into play, and may in fact be 'good'. For a gate camping blackbird that can't kill in 2 minutes a jammed & scrambled tanking apoc that has logged to save his butt, this may be bad. For the apoc that has saved his preciousss butt by logging, this may be good. There's also the deciding point of view here, CCP's - i.e. 'bad' = clients disappointed about losing ships to connection failures because we made ships stay in space for too long when they're not logged on). On a side note, Rhonstet has some very interesting reading linkage in his sig. I humbly suggest everyone not familliar with it to go and read, because it's a perfect example that all of this has already been thought of, said, and argued over many, many, many times (not that it shouldn't be argued over some more, but the same old arguments & counterarguments aren't getting us anywhere).

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