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Dragon Greg
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Posted - 2009.06.01 13:34:00 -
[31]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
1. Priorities?
2. You know how much you pay to transfer a char?
The seller pays, the buyer doesn't. Everything else is just isk.
Training multiple characters on same account through this hickup has occured in the past, and was addressed. Same thing applies here as such.
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Esu Nahalas
The Night Corporation
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Posted - 2009.06.01 13:36:00 -
[32]
"Tell me again why we cant train alts at the same time?"
Why, did you listen the first dozen or so times?
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.06.01 13:38:00 -
[33]
Prolly been mentioned about 43 times so far, but it would reduce CCCP's income.
Next topic. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Wang LeeMei
Ero Guro DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.06.01 13:41:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Wang LeeMei on 01/06/2009 13:40:59 CCCP
i guess the soviet union gives a **** bout subscriptions in eve
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.06.01 13:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dragon Greg
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
1. Priorities?
2. You know how much you pay to transfer a char?
The seller pays, the buyer doesn't. Everything else is just isk.
Same principle applies to PLEX's. Someone else is paying.
Technically, unlike other MMO's where you have to re-roll to play a different class, the idea in Eve was that you will have 1 char, and you can train anything you like. It's actually far quicker to train 1 char to do 50 things than it is to train 2 char's on the same account to do 25 things each. (because of prerequisites and overlap etc.
The other two characters are just a nicety to allow other play styles (eg pirate vs empire hugger).
That people power-play and run multiple accounts doesn't hurt CCP any either. People are now also training quite a bit faster than when the game was released. I imagine if people could choose between being able to train 3 accounts at once, or just being able to train 3x as fast, most people would choose the latter. The rest just haven't figured out yet why that's always better.
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Styxia Acheron
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Posted - 2009.06.01 14:04:00 -
[36]
Originally by: slave10011001 You are confusing the method of training a skill with the ability to train a skill. Two very different things and it makes your argument moot.
Take it down to the basic level. A character on an account can train a skill, or as in other MMO's, gains experience thus training a skill or levelling up. Ergo, training a skill in Eve is equal to gaining experience or training in other MMO's.
So much for the "there are no levels in Eve" argument, but then that was always more then a bit of a joke.
Anyway, I think you're glossing over the relevant factor. Leveling fishing in WoW requires constant user input. You have to cast, watch the bobber, and pull it in when it splashes. Leveling Minmatar Cruisers V requires no input beyond putting it in your queue.
For one the character has to be logged in and playing for advancement to occur, in neither instance is there a mechanism for you to be logged into two characters on the same account at the same time. For the other whether I'm logged in or not doesn't matter, and there is a mechanism for me to be logged out on more then one character.
The method of training is relevant because it addresses inherent gameplay reasons. For one there is an inherent reason why you can't level on more then one character, for the other, by its very nature, there isn't. There is an obvious gameplay reason why I can't level fishing on two characters on the same account at once, there is no inherent gameplay reason -- beyond "CCP wants to sell you multiple accounts", which is all fine and dandy -- explaining why I can't train more then one character's SP at a time.
Honestly the question I've had since starting this game is not why you can't train more then one character at once -- the answer is obvious -- by why they bother with giving you three character slots per account.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.06.01 14:14:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Styxia Acheron Honestly the question I've had since starting this game is not why you can't train more then one character at once -- the answer is obvious -- b[ut] why they bother with giving you three character slots per account.
As a place to store your alts one you've trained them to useful levels? Or as a place to keep your forum-warrioring alts… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Fentaan
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Posted - 2009.06.01 14:24:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Fentaan on 01/06/2009 14:24:57 Actually in regards to all of the comments of "No other MMO lets you level two characters at the same time"
I set astrogeology V to train and it takes 12 days
Warcraft player A levels his character from level 1-80 in that 12 days
Warcraft player B levels two characters from level 1-80 in the same number of days because he plays 8 hours a day
The warcraft player is able to level two characters at the same time, because his characters progression is actually tied to playing the game, interacting with the game environment, fighting battles etc, and doing more of these things allows you to progress at a faster rate, versus the static rate of skill progression in eve
And no I am not saying that this should change at all, merely that in other games you can progress two characters in the same time it would take another player to progress one, whereas in Eve no matter how much you play you cannot affect the rate of skillups (learning skills dont count, everyone can have them)
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Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.01 15:57:00 -
[39]
If you could train all 3 at once, everyone would have a PVP, manufacture, and research alt and there would be little demand for any line of work-for-profit since anyone could just relog and do it themselves. I like having specialized characters.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2009.06.01 16:06:00 -
[40]
Money.
Delenda est achura. |
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar Northern Storm Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.01 16:29:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 01/06/2009 16:30:56
Originally by: Fentaan Edited by: Fentaan on 01/06/2009 14:24:57 Actually in regards to all of the comments of "No other MMO lets you level two characters at the same time"
I set astrogeology V to train and it takes 12 days
Warcraft player A levels his character from level 1-80 in that 12 days
Warcraft player B levels two characters from level 1-80 in the same number of days because he plays 8 hours a day
The warcraft player is able to level two characters at the same time, because his characters progression is actually tied to playing the game, interacting with the game environment, fighting battles etc, and doing more of these things allows you to progress at a faster rate, versus the static rate of skill progression in eve
And no I am not saying that this should change at all, merely that in other games you can progress two characters in the same time it would take another player to progress one, whereas in Eve no matter how much you play you cannot affect the rate of skillups (learning skills dont count, everyone can have them)
This is the closest thing to a valid argument against single character training I've seen in this thread. Unfortunately that's just the nature of EVE. In WoW/WAR/AoC/LoTRO etc, your progression is tied to the input you put into the game. I understand that, and in the example you give above, the player who spends that 8 hours a day does see more improvement to his character than his counterpart who is playing EVE.
But consider this second example:
I go on a vacation for 2 weeks.
As my WoW/WAR/AoC/LoTRO characters would sit idle, my EVE toons continue to train, advancing much much farther than 8 hours of game play may have gotten me ahead in another game.
It is a double edge sword, and the nature of the MMO we play.
Get used to it, it is not going to change.
Edit: (last point directed not to the quoted poster but to the OP) ________
Please resize sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.06.01 17:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Krystal Vernet
Largely irrelevant, as other major MMORPGs level skills actively, not by simply pushing "TRAIN NOW" and waiting X min/hours/days. In World of WarCraft, if I want to train my weapon skills, I equip that weapon (making sure I can) and then go hit things. If I want to train Alchemy profession, I get materials and make pots, etc, until I get the point I want it at. In Eve Online, if I want to fly a Thrasher, I have to push TRAIN NOW on Minmatar Frigate to IV, make sure Spaceship Command is at III, then Destroyers to I. I could log off entirely between pushing TRAIN NOW. There's no interaction other than the initial right-click -> Train to Level 1/2/3/4/5.
In fact, there are people that dedicate an account to that. Just train a character and sell it when it's at a good point. No interaction. No actually playing the character. Guy in a noobship with the skills to fly a faction-fitted CNR or something. Very different from other major MMORPGs.
Yes but can you run around and train your sword skill on one character and train alchemy on another on the same account at the same time? We're not talking about the differences in how skills are acquired, but how many can acquire them at once.
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slave10011001
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.01 17:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Styxia Acheron
Originally by: slave10011001 You are confusing the method of training a skill with the ability to train a skill. Two very different things and it makes your argument moot.
Take it down to the basic level. A character on an account can train a skill, or as in other MMO's, gains experience thus training a skill or levelling up. Ergo, training a skill in Eve is equal to gaining experience or training in other MMO's.
So much for the "there are no levels in Eve" argument, but then that was always more then a bit of a joke.
Anyway, I think you're glossing over the relevant factor. Leveling fishing in WoW requires constant user input. You have to cast, watch the bobber, and pull it in when it splashes. Leveling Minmatar Cruisers V requires no input beyond putting it in your queue.
For one the character has to be logged in and playing for advancement to occur, in neither instance is there a mechanism for you to be logged into two characters on the same account at the same time. For the other whether I'm logged in or not doesn't matter, and there is a mechanism for me to be logged out on more then one character.
The method of training is relevant because it addresses inherent gameplay reasons. For one there is an inherent reason why you can't level on more then one character, for the other, by its very nature, there isn't. There is an obvious gameplay reason why I can't level fishing on two characters on the same account at once, there is no inherent gameplay reason -- beyond "CCP wants to sell you multiple accounts", which is all fine and dandy -- explaining why I can't train more then one character's SP at a time.
Honestly the question I've had since starting this game is not why you can't train more then one character at once -- the answer is obvious -- by why they bother with giving you three character slots per account.
The method of training is irrelevant. The fact you do not have to be logged in at all has no bearing on why you should be able to train more than one character at once and is a red herring if ever there was one.
As I previously posted, do not confuse the METHOD of skill or experience gain across MMO's. Compare how many you can train at the same time on one account, and you will find it is one. So Eve is no different in that respect. You do have a pause button on your character skill queue so you can press that and go and train another character. In other MMO's you log one character off and start playing it. The slots are there to give you choice and flexibilty. Other MMO's may offer more or less slots. For example, SWG when it was launched offered you only one.
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Random Womble
Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.06.01 18:00:00 -
[44]
CCP could just give us one character slot per account if you realy have such a big issue with it and i dont think thats an idea anyone would like
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So'Lar Wynde
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.07.21 09:26:00 -
[45]
I am resurrecting this topic simply because I came here to ask the very same question and a search produced this thread. After reading through this, I see that both sides of the argument have some valid points, but for the life of me, I still canÆt see why the limit is imposedà
- The argument that æno other MMO allows more than one player per account to train at the same timeÆ is valid only in the fact that it is true. But that doesnÆt make it a hard-and-fast, unbreakable rule in online gaming. EVE is an innovative, ground-breaking game like no other MMO out there, so why should CCP & EVE stick to the status quo? I suggest that this argument is null and void.
- The statement that CCP would lose revenue is pure conjecture. No one knows exactly how different scenarios of multiple character training would affect the overall profits. It could just as easily generate more accounts than cause a drop. As an example û Personally, I just started playing three weeks ago but started right off with two accounts. I knew that there were three character slots available per account, but was unaware of the single-character training limit. I purchased two accounts thinking that I could train all of the characters simultaneously. How many others would do the same? To actually use two characters at the same time, you still need multiple accounts regardless of how many you can train, and most people with multiple accounts do so for just that reason.
- As for people selling trained alts, they do so anyway. How would that affect profits? You still need an account to use that trained alt, and actually, why would anybody want to buy a trained alt (except for a few lazy noobs who wouldnÆt last long in the PvP environment of EVE anyway because they would have no idea how to use what they bought) when they can train their own alts?
- On the other side of the coin, why even have the extra slots without being able to train them? Their use is so limited that they are all but worthless with a few minor exceptions like mining. But even at that, to get them to a point of some usefulness you still lose those precious training minutes from your main. Those extra slots are nothing more than empty gift boxes û pretty to look at, but void of anything of value.
IÆve read a few ideas for simultaneous training, none of which looked very promising, so I submit the following ideaà
Allow simultaneous training of all three characters on one account with the following rules, bonuses, and penalties:
- Each character must be designated as Main, 1st Alt, and 2nd Alt at the Character Selection screen depending on how many are or will be training simultaneously. This setting can be changed as often as a player wishes, but if skills are already being trained by one or more characters, the change in status wonÆt take effect until that skill is completed. If a character is being newly added to the training sequence as Main or 1st Alt, that character wonÆt start training until the previous Main or 1st Alt has completed the skill already being trained at that status rate.
- If only one character is training, then that character receives a bonus -1% reduction in training time after all bonuses for attributes are subtracted.
- If two characters are training, the Main trains at +10% over the standard training time he would have received normally with all attribute bonuses. The Alt trains at +25% over the standard training time he would have received normally with all attribute bonuses.
- If three characters are training, the Main trains at +20%, the 1st Alt trains at +35%, and the 2nd Alt trains at +50% over the standard training time they would have received normally with all attribute bonuses.
Did I miss or overlook anything? And does anyone think this merits it's own thread or CSM proposal? The Original Adder
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.07.21 09:33:00 -
[46]
Gratz on two points.
1. Resurrection. Always fun. 2. Assuming CCP will change something without ruining it. Last time they looked at training they gave us the nearly useless skill queue the muppets had been crying for, and took away the invaluable ghost training that could never diminish in value.
If CCP start looking at training 3 alts, you can bet that what they take with the other hand will hurt a lot more than what they gave with the first, as is always the case.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.07.21 12:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Dragon Greg actually it seems you can have multiple characters on the same account training at the same time, but it's a bug of sorts. If one character on the account is training, and you buy another character which is also training and have it transferred to that account both will keep training until you log in to any character that is training on that account or until either skill finishes training ...
Bugreport submitted.
A very useful bug, too. Thanks for reporting it. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.21 13:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tiny Tove Gratz on two points.
1. Resurrection. Always fun. 2. Assuming CCP will change something without ruining it. Last time they looked at training they gave us the nearly useless skill queue the muppets had been crying for, and took away the invaluable ghost training that could never diminish in value.
If CCP start looking at training 3 alts, you can bet that what they take with the other hand will hurt a lot more than what they gave with the first, as is always the case.
lolwut?
The skillqueue is fantastic. It has saved me a huge amount of time and effort.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.07.21 14:18:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Tiny Tove Gratz on two points.
1. Resurrection. Always fun. 2. Assuming CCP will change something without ruining it. Last time they looked at training they gave us the nearly useless skill queue the muppets had been crying for, and took away the invaluable ghost training that could never diminish in value.
If CCP start looking at training 3 alts, you can bet that what they take with the other hand will hurt a lot more than what they gave with the first, as is always the case.
lolwut?
The skillqueue is fantastic. It has saved me a huge amount of time and effort.
I disagree. Would love to hear about this "huge amount of time and effort". Actually I wouldn't. I mean, I would. But by time I've read what you describe as "huge amount of time and effort" I'm pretty convinced I will just want those seconds adding back onto my life.
Because there is no huge amount of time and effort associated with clicking on a skill to train and leaving it until it is done.
There was a "slightly inconvenient" timing window with skills that train in slightly more hours than you play, but less than you sleep, meaning you had to train half a skill one evening and the other half the next evening, and maybe even having to stagger the ending of a long skill over the next evening too. I can remember training Battle Cruiser 5, of the torture of having waited 26 days of having to wait one more.
Is this slightly inconvenient end time the "huge amount of time and effort" to which you refer?
Christ. I've almost got myself interested now. Go on, let's hear it. I'm going to regret I'm sure, but go on.
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.21 14:27:00 -
[50]
in other MMOs you can't play two chars (from same account) at the same time and lvl them...
however you can achieve your goals much faster in other MMOs due the fact that most of them have a top lvl, top high end gear, etc.
in other MMOs you can transfer the alt to another account too. but most of them don't allow any sort of character vending. which means that you can only transfer to accounts with the same VISA, name, email or whatever. and ofc they CHARGE for this service.
now... correct me if i am wrong but: what CCP is doing, is not only forcing people to pay a second account for every alt, but ALSO you have to pay if you want to transfer that alt to another account? yeah nice, what's next? charging for the air we breathe?
but then you look at it from the other side... is there any other MMO where you can convert ingame currency to gametime, which means you basically can end up playing FOR FREE? CCP surely needs to make money somewhere...
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.21 14:42:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Malcanis on 21/07/2009 14:44:54
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Tiny Tove Gratz on two points.
1. Resurrection. Always fun. 2. Assuming CCP will change something without ruining it. Last time they looked at training they gave us the nearly useless skill queue the muppets had been crying for, and took away the invaluable ghost training that could never diminish in value.
If CCP start looking at training 3 alts, you can bet that what they take with the other hand will hurt a lot more than what they gave with the first, as is always the case.
lolwut?
The skillqueue is fantastic. It has saved me a huge amount of time and effort.
I disagree. Would love to hear about this "huge amount of time and effort". Actually I wouldn't. I mean, I would. But by time I've read what you describe as "huge amount of time and effort" I'm pretty convinced I will just want those seconds adding back onto my life..
No more waking up at 4AM to train a skill, no more skill juggling because a skill ends at DT. Just make sure the queue is topped up before I log out and I can train what I want in the order that I want.
And no more god damb short skills that finish while I'm doing something interesting like eg: fighting and dont want to be fiddling with my character sheet. The next skill just starts. This was pretty nice when I was training up all those short subsystem skills.
Skillqueue is just convenient. What's so bad about that?
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Haakelen
Gallente Nation of Muppets
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Posted - 2009.07.21 14:46:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai now... correct me if i am wrong but: what CCP is doing, is not only forcing people to pay a second account for every alt, but ALSO you have to pay if you want to transfer that alt to another account? yeah nice, what's next? charging for the air we breathe?
A business, operating to produce a profit?! Well.
Originally by: Kayna Eelai but then you look at it from the other side... is there any other MMO where you can convert ingame currency to gametime, which means you basically can end up playing FOR FREE? CCP surely needs to make money somewhere...
You're stupid. Someone has to buy the GTC with non-internet spaceship currency. CCP makes money off every GTC transaction.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.07.21 15:40:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Malcanis Skillqueue is just convenient. What's so bad about that?
What was taken away. ie, half price training. Being lied to by CCP who said it was a feature, then conveniently deleted all reference to it. Having people start by saying "huge amount of time and effort" only to find out all they meant was "extremely minor inconvenience". Not that I said it was bad to have a queue, what I said was bad was that when the whiners win, CCP respond by taking something off us. But hey, let's not let those fkn annoying words that I actually used cloud up a damm good whine and exaggeration session.
And I was right twice now. I do regret it. Being right doesn't always feel good. I want those seconds back.
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Borun Tal
Minmatar Virtual Rock Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.21 15:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Personally, with the dedicated playerbase this game has, I doubt it would affect profits any.
You kidding? I have more than one account right now. If I could train multiple alts at the same time in an account I sure wouldn't be paying for as many as I am, that's for damn sure.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:15:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Tippia on 21/07/2009 16:15:28
Originally by: Tiny Tove Being lied to by CCP who said it was a feature, then conveniently deleted all reference to it.
Are people still spouting this nonsense, even after repeadely being asked to produce just a shred of support for the claim that it was an intended and advertised feature and failing to do so? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:18:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 21/07/2009 16:15:28
Originally by: Tiny Tove Being lied to by CCP who said it was a feature, then conveniently deleted all reference to it.
Are people still spouting this nonsense, even after repeadely being asked to produce just a shred of support for the claim that it was an intended and advertised feature and failing to do so?
spouting nonsense like being asked to produce was has been destroyed? Hmmmm... it's a bit like genius, only the opposite.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:27:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tiny Tove spouting nonsense like being asked to produce was has been destroyed? Hmmmm... it's a bit like genius, only the opposite.
So you're referring to the player guide then I take it? The guide that shows how the game works, not how it's supposed to work? The guide that wasn't written by CCP?
Yeah… that's not quite the same as advertising it as a feature, you know. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
KaarBaak
Minmatar Squirrel Team
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:31:00 -
[58]
I'm sorry...is the question "Why can't EVE be like all the other MMOs?"
Why doesn't EVE have swords and shields and spells?
Why doesn't EVE have flying mounts?
KB
KB
Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:59:00 -
[59]
Because they're alternates, alternatively you train them or you train another.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.07.21 17:08:00 -
[60]
This is not your first MMO, go back to GW/WOW/EQ/LOTR/WAR/ETC. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
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