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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:23:00 -
[31]
I have seen a med drone perma tanking a gallente plex. Meanwhile caldari plexes got those nice things called perma jam + npc 'cerbs' spamming light missiles doing thermal damage in addition to all the kinetic damage they do. |
Hurtado Soneka
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:32:00 -
[32]
try doing a gal medium or above plex yourself, your constantly damped to 5km so its the same difference as a jam, also if you know the dmg type your enemy is doing tank accordingly... |
Hadrielloress
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:45:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Hadrielloress on 08/06/2009 15:47:01
 Originally by: Hurtado Soneka
loving the idiots saying caldari run from pvp, when infact the gals only really engage if they have twice the numbers 
Your kidding right? Caldari has more people in FW then the Gals, and your going to make a point that their fleets are twice the size of Caldari fleets.
Are all Caldari pilots this illogical.
You wont win any argument about the Plexing while cloaked and stabbed thing. You cant win arguments about PvP, you say they can engage in plexs but why would they when they would have to go get t1 frigs and such to engage you in them. By the time they get it all together to meet you in there the plex would be done etc.
The only thing that still remains constant is the Caldari did everything they could to not fight straight up.
Why dont you try getting a fleet together that matches theirs. You have the Numbers to do so.
This is just sad. |
Hurtado Soneka
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:50:00 -
[34]
Never said nothing about the gal fleet being twice as large as the caldari one, am saying gals dont like to engage unless they have twice the numbers.
Another point to add actually is, most of the bulk of the caldari FW is actually inactive alts/spies/people generally interested in FW but not interested enough to take part. We dont have as many people as the raw numbers would say  |
Flashh Gorden
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:54:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Flashh Gorden on 08/06/2009 15:55:42
Gallente rats use nos and sensor dampners and can be a pain in the arse but the plexes of both sides can be speed tanked by an AF with an afterburner.
Its just one of the many Myths the Gallentee cling too to try to justify such a heavy defeat.
Fact is most the Feds were unorganised lazy unable to look at the map and see what areas were the most at risk.
Those who did plex for the feds did not have enough back up to either take or defend a system and it was quite easy to brake their moral.
The biggest factor of all for the defeat is lack of leadership and a poor example by some of the most experianced players on the Federal side who wan to buff up thier K/D ratio in Tama rather than help their less experianced team mates.
We won because we very rarely lost a plex fight if we did lose we would come back again in greater strengh.
Half the people talking crap about the war have never taken a system and dont realise how difficult it can be.
You cant take a system just by loging on after DT thats rubbish.
If you log on after DT and plex a system you might slow an attacker up or you might hasten an attack but you still need to dominate the the system and sourounding systems for about week the odd after DT plexing will not make much of a diferance other than time taken.
Everyone can see the map getting brighter and brighter as a system gets close to flipping giving both sides ample time to defend or attack.
Numbers is another total fantasy. Most the plexing on the Caldari team was done by 3 or 4 corps and some superhuman individuals.
We proberly had the same if not fewer plexers than the feds at one time.
The diferance is we knew where to plex and when. With priorty systems for both defensive and offensive opperations.
We learnt the art from Foom who seemd to have no problem taking caldari systems rats or no rats.
Still you do have all those kills to cling too in Tama.
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Hadrielloress
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Posted - 2009.06.08 16:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hurtado Soneka
Never said nothing about the gal fleet being twice as large as the caldari one, am saying gals dont like to engage unless they have twice the numbers.
Another point to add actually is, most of the bulk of the caldari FW is actually inactive alts/spies/people generally interested in FW but not interested enough to take part. We dont have as many people as the raw numbers would say
Go back to reading comprehension 101.
Plus, "Never said nothing". I mean really a double negative, really? Guess with that my first point in this post is pointless.
You admit you have more people in FW, you say you use many as spies? Could that be to avoid PvP fights maybe? Almost everything you say and most other caldari faction war members say is a joke, especially that you try to defend it as anything but cowardly afraid to fight BS.
You have twice the numbers just How many alts can there be? out of all those numbers you should be able to put together a fleet that is larger then an gal fleet 100% of the time. If you cant your FCs and militia is even more of a joke.
As for plex's the only ones that have an easy time in them is the Amarr, Mimitar militia has to deal with NOS and tracking disruptor. In order of difficulty its Caldari NPCs, Gal NPCs, Amarr NPCs, Mimitar NPCs. |
Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.08 16:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Hadrielloress
You have twice the numbers just How many alts can there be? out of all those numbers you should be able to put together a fleet that is larger then an gal fleet 100% of the time. If you cant your FCs and militia is even more of a joke.
Aside from the fact that if the objective of those Caldari forces is to take complexes and capture systems vs kill as many Gallente as possible, it can be much more efficient having 4 (or more) fleets all half the size (or smaller) of 1 Gallente fleet.
The killboard focused Gallente fleets spends its time chasing around 1 of the 4 Caldari fleets, while the other 3 are able to focus on their objective of taking complexes and systems.
Superior tactical ability/capability does not equal superior operational or strategic ability/capability.
But all those T1 ship kills must be awesome! I enjoy the business it sends me anyway. |
Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.06.08 16:54:00 -
[38]
Caldari Militia chat is never over 250~300 people.
And you summed it up when you said Gal's didn't want to hop in T1 frigs to fight in the plexes... they'd rather Gate Hump in BS's and T2's
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Lukye Charms
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Posted - 2009.06.08 17:07:00 -
[39]
The Alliance only wins because they have paladins....
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Hadrielloress
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Posted - 2009.06.08 19:50:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dex Nederland
Originally by: Hadrielloress
You have twice the numbers just How many alts can there be? out of all those numbers you should be able to put together a fleet that is larger then an gal fleet 100% of the time. If you cant your FCs and militia is even more of a joke.
Aside from the fact that if the objective of those Caldari forces is to take complexes and capture systems vs kill as many Gallente as possible, it can be much more efficient having 4 (or more) fleets all half the size (or smaller) of 1 Gallente fleet.
The killboard focused Gallente fleets spends its time chasing around 1 of the 4 Caldari fleets, while the other 3 are able to focus on their objective of taking complexes and systems.
Superior tactical ability/capability does not equal superior operational or strategic ability/capability.
But all those T1 ship kills must be awesome! I enjoy the business it sends me anyway.
What did you gain strategically again by capturing things that offer no rewards? While they blow your ships up and loot them winning on a more relevant strategic front. You know the thing that is the reality of eve Economic warfare. |
Hadrielloress
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Posted - 2009.06.08 19:51:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Caldari Militia chat is never over 250~300 people.
And you summed it up when you said Gal's didn't want to hop in T1 frigs to fight in the plexes... they'd rather Gate Hump in BS's and T2's
So you are saying you know exactly where they are, what they are in, and how they fight. And you cant come up with a way to fight that.
I love that you only help highlight how much fail caldari militia is. |
Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.06.08 19:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Hadrielloress
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Caldari Militia chat is never over 250~300 people.
And you summed it up when you said Gal's didn't want to hop in T1 frigs to fight in the plexes... they'd rather Gate Hump in BS's and T2's
So you are saying you know exactly where they are, what they are in, and how they fight. And you cant come up with a way to fight that.
I love that you only help highlight how much fail caldari militia is.
Yup, and the Frogs know the Caldari pilots are at the plexes in T1 frigs.
I believe you just highlight the fact that the Gall's refuse to do anything other than hump gates and hug stations.
You do realize CCP took the time to add Plexes specifically to FW because they wanted the fights to be ship size limited right?
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Sky Grunthor
Minmatar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.06.08 20:18:00 -
[43]
sheesh, your all bickering like a bunch of children :)
1) "X" doesn't engage unless they have 2x the numbers is a stupid argument. Doesn't matter which side. Its both true and meaningless. When it is true, well SO WOULD YOU. When it isn't true its ignored.
2) Galente chose to largely ignore the plexing mechanic with only a few corporations entering that battleground. I know, I was one of those few. Its EVE and truthfully nothing has been won or lost because right now in the current mechanic its meaningless who holds what space. THERE ARE NO BENEFITS.
3) Caldari chose to play the plexing game, I think largely in response to FOOM endeavors, but beyond that bit of self boistery, Caldari play the plexing game well. There are several factors to this but the largest and most significant at this point is phycological. They have won so much, hard won early on and with so little opposition now, that at this point and time, why should gallente really care about it?
As to the mechanics itself.
Anyone claiming that the rat types don't matter haven't got a clue. Yah they don't matter when your not fighting over a plex, but they sure as hell matter when you are actively fighting for plexes against an opponent. A rat that limits your engagement range vs a rat that shuts you down entirely is a VERY large advantage for one side. The largest advantage is however positional, who gets into the plex first with the most number of destroyers cruisers and frigs.
The other big advantage that caldari had was the number of pilots willing to plex post downtime. When FOOM was involved this worked to slow us down tremendously. We where a US TZ group and we where also actively opposed in our goals. It made it very difficult to take and hold space because all of our work durring our TZ could be undone in a matter of a day or two if we werent actively on at unnatural times. (for US TZ that is)
Does that matter now? Don't know beyond the thought that the existence of more pilots willing to plex in post DT time on the caldari side makes their job easier and the gallente side (while not undoable) harder.
It just comes down to this. Caldari in general view plexing as pve with pvp combat potential and rather enjoy that. Gallente view plexing as PVE with pvp lightly frosted on top and don't care to PVE at all. PVE is for isk making.
If attitudes have changed among the gallente, its probably too late at this point. The plexing match has been won, hopefully not irrevocably.
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Search: Sky Grunthor |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.08 20:31:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Caldari Militia chat is never over 250~300 people.
And you summed it up when you said Gal's didn't want to hop in T1 frigs to fight in the plexes... they'd rather Gate Hump in BS's and T2's
Which pretty much proofs that caldari outnumber us more than you would think when looking at the total ammount of people in militia, we also got relative more inactives.
Good luck perma tanking a caldari plex with npc cerbs who fire thermal missiels (so you cant focus your tank on kinetic), and who do basicly full damage on an AF. When you get some of them spawned (lets say 3+), they do serious damage to an AF who tries to orbit the button.
And ecm is far worse than damps. If you enter a gallente plex with thorax for example, with enemy on warp in, you can lock and close on target before you get damped, which make the damps useless. Meanwhile in caldari plexes they just perma jam you. |
Tarodir
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Posted - 2009.06.08 22:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Caldari Militia chat is never over 250~300 people.
And you summed it up when you said Gal's didn't want to hop in T1 frigs to fight in the plexes... they'd rather Gate Hump in BS's and T2's
Which pretty much proofs that caldari outnumber us more than you would think when looking at the total ammount of people in militia, we also got relative more inactives.
Good luck perma tanking a caldari plex with npc cerbs who fire thermal missiels (so you cant focus your tank on kinetic), and who do basicly full damage on an AF. When you get some of them spawned (lets say 3+), they do serious damage to an AF who tries to orbit the button.
And ecm is far worse than damps. If you enter a gallente plex with thorax for example, with enemy on warp in, you can lock and close on target before you get damped, which make the damps useless. Meanwhile in caldari plexes they just perma jam you.
So useing one tanked ship to draw aggro and one to kill the caldari npcs or two to draw aggro and two to kill the npcs doesn't work? So what you're saying is that their is only one person in gallente militia online?
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