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Selissa Shadoe
39
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Posted - 2012.05.15 13:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the upcoming wardec changes that will not allow wardecs to be 'scraped off', it makes me wonder how it will be possible to have an industrial company (mining etc.) when any 1 man corp idiot can wardec you and effectively shut you down for a week.
Yes you and the corpies can jump into frigates and try and do something about it other than be blown up, but it still disrupts what you were WANTING to do. It's disrupting the play styles of a number of people so that other people can get their jollies being a-holes.
I wonder how many subscriptions will lapse because of people being forced to play war when they really don't want to, just so some socially inept morons can have their 'tears'.
I'm curious what other industry types think about this. |
Skorpynekomimi
191
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Posted - 2012.05.15 13:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just hire someone to deal with them. |
Nyreanya
Astrum Research Pina Colada Armada
31
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Posted - 2012.05.15 13:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Or alliance-up with a bunch of other industry corps. You don't have to work together, cooperate, or anything, just pack as many bodies into that alliance as you can. Makes everyone involved much less likely to get dec'ed. |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
65
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Posted - 2012.05.15 13:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mine in low sec... or mine in high sec and pretend it is low sec. Use a non-corp alt to bring your goods to market. Map out instant-undock bookmarks at your most frequently visited stations during the 24 hour warning period. Temporarily re-locate to a system you normally don't operate out of.
The only indy corps really at risk are the ones with high sec POSes who don't have the means to defend them properly. Everything else can continue as normal. Those who do have the means of building and fueling a POS probably have the means to hire some mercs to defend it.
If you let a war deccer disrupt your playstyle, they have already won, even if they don't pop any of your ships or get you to pay the surrender amount.
Think of it this way: If some 1-man corp war decs you for the lulz, that makes further decs against you from other...potentially more lethal... threats more expensive.
If 1 person can shut your corp down, you aren't doing enough to protect yourself. And remember, "Protect yourself" doesn't have to involve training up and hopping into combat ships and duking it out. This is EVE. Guns are not the only tool at your disposal.
I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
285
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Posted - 2012.05.15 13:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
A year or so ago, when dec shielding was considered an exploit, it was similarly impossible to just "scrape off" war decs. And war decs then cost 2m isk.
Under the new system, war decs will be similarly impossible to scrape off and decs will cost 50m.
Ie. the risk to small indy corps will end up being the same as it was a year ago. Given that small indy corps existed a year ago I think we'll be fine. Yes you'll get stomped on if you're unlucky, or piddle in someone's cheerios, or just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time; but this in reality is no different to the situation a year ago. |
Salo Aldeland
Luma Operations
42
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Posted - 2012.05.15 14:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
If being war-deced and attacked didn't disrupt your industrial output, that would be pretty silly wouldn't it?
Budget for increased security and pass the bill along to your customers. Just the cost of doing business. |
sodney
corporation 32191
13
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Posted - 2012.05.15 14:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nyreanya wrote:Or alliance-up with a bunch of other industry corps. You don't have to work together, cooperate, or anything, just pack as many bodies into that alliance as you can. Makes everyone involved much less likely to get dec'ed.
if someone dec`s 20 miners, why wouldnt they want to dec 200 miners?
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Samillian
Moonshine Industries The Last Chancers.
151
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Posted - 2012.05.15 14:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shoot them, repeatedly.
There are few problems in EvE that the application of continuous DPS cannot solve. |
Salo Aldeland
Luma Operations
42
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Posted - 2012.05.15 14:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Samillian wrote:Shoot them, repeatedly.
There are few problems in EvE that the application of continuous DPS cannot solve.
If brute force doesn't work you aren't using enough. |
Haulie Berry
72
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Posted - 2012.05.15 14:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Selissa Shadoe wrote:
Yes you and the corpies can jump into frigates and try and do something about it other than be blown up, but it still disrupts what you were WANTING to do. It's disrupting the play styles of a number of people so that other people can get their jollies being a-holes.
Yes, hi, hello. Welcome to "multiplayer" gaming. Sometimes what other people want to do conflicts with what you want to do. Learn to cope.
Quote: I wonder how many subscriptions will lapse because of people being forced to play war when they really don't want to, just so some socially inept morons can have their 'tears'.
I'm curious what other industry types think about this.
I think you need to HTFU. Recruit allies, train combat pilots, join an alliance, hire mercenaries. War decs are part of the game. It is INTENDED that people are able to interfere with you. That's the entire point of war decs. The ability to trivially scrape them was clearly a loophole that needed fixing. You are essentially complaining that you will no longer be able to exploit a broken mechanic to avoid an intended gameplay feature. |
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Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
65
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Posted - 2012.05.15 14:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Salo Aldeland wrote:Samillian wrote:Shoot them, repeatedly.
There are few problems in EvE that the application of continuous DPS cannot solve. If brute force doesn't work you aren't using enough.
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail".
I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
196
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Posted - 2012.05.15 15:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tekota wrote:A year or so ago, when dec shielding was considered an exploit, it was similarly impossible to just "scrape off" war decs. And war decs then cost 2m isk.
Under the new system, war decs will be similarly impossible to scrape off and decs will cost 50m.
Ie. the risk to small indy corps will end up being the same as it was a year ago. Given that small indy corps existed a year ago I think we'll be fine. Yes you'll get stomped on if you're unlucky, or piddle in someone's cheerios, or just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time; but this in reality is no different to the situation a year ago.
This.
How soon people forget. For years the situation existed where Dec shielding wasnt an option. Yet somehow these indy corps managed.
Now at least it is better than then, as it costs alot more for the average Dec against a corp. |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
27
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Posted - 2012.05.15 16:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Also remember that there lot in this for the defending corp.
- You can add merc corps to your war, and it's quite possible a lot of mercs will be looking be added to wars just to get more targets. - While it's harder for you to flee corp it's harder for them as well. - The cost has greatly increased to dec even a one man corp. It's quite possible that we'll see the rise of HS alliance for indy corps. Joining these alliances would greatly boost the cost of a war, and a small fee per corp could get enough isk to hire a merc corp(s) to defend the alliance. - POS bashs in HS become extremely risky with advent of merc corps. An attacker could incap a POS and the defender could hire or find allies to defend the POS for the period when the timer ends. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
95
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Posted - 2012.05.15 19:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
It's time for industrial corps to rally under an Alliance banner the same way all of the PVP corps do. It'll have it's own PVP member, but Indy corps have the opportunity to make a dent in Eve just like the pewpewers do. The lore tells us that BUSINESS corps made eve what it is; or is that just more boolshite? ;-) |
Haulie Berry
72
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Posted - 2012.05.15 19:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:It's time for industrial corps to rally under an Alliance banner the same way all of the PVP corps do. It'll have it's own PVP member, but Indy corps have the opportunity to make a dent in Eve just like the pewpewers do. The lore tells us that BUSINESS corps made eve what it is; or is that just more boolshite? ;-)
I don't really see the draw, tbh. On a per-target basis, it's cheaper to wardec a larger organization. Someone can pay 50 mil to shoot at JUST me, if they want, or they can pay a FEW times more than that to shoot at MANY times more targets. Hell, they can pay the same amount to shoot at over 100 targets. This almost guarantees that a high profile carebear alliance will attract hostile attention. I can trivially work around the occasional war dec (and have never once had to resort to "shedding" a dec) - it would be much more annoying to work around a persistent one.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
694
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Posted - 2012.05.15 20:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Selissa Shadoe wrote:I'm curious what other industry types think about this. Instead of 2m / week for the wardec, it now costs a minimum of 50m / week. That alone will stop many random wardecs from 2-member and small corps, which in my experience is the majority of hisec wardecs.
Other than that, I don't really see a change, as we've never used the dec-shield mechanic.
Some industrialists need to buck up and learn how to pilot at least a BC. Wardecs are a part of hisec life. |
TravisWB
50
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Posted - 2012.05.16 03:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Like it or not CCP is going to turn EVE into a shooting gallery.
Micro corps are not actually beneficial to the game, hence the current all out war on hisec.
Combine up with people that you have things in common with, move to another region from time to time and ...I don't know. Look for another game.
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company Assassin Confederacy
51
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Posted - 2012.05.16 04:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
One man corp war decs you?
Who cares!
You should have orca with good tank and energy transfer on it with a logi if your mining anyway. (( don't get ganked ))
Just keep a good interceptor around and let your big group of hulks use a big ball of combat drones.
If he is a real bugger bring a heavier tackle with ecm and neuts.
If you have no real option of fighting back as your really tiny and new just use a dead end area and keep an alt scout or cloaked corp member out in front when your one man target logs on.
On a side note: if you skipped mining cruiser to go straight for a barge you did it wrong! |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2012.05.16 04:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
About two and a half years ago, My industrila corp got wardeced. by a one man corp. We moved system and set up traps, but he didnt show. so we went back to mining. the wardec lapsed, and we figured he was just looking for cheap kills and moved on.
Two days after the dec lapsed, he ganked one of my corpmates hulks. and then another and another. after four he deced us again. we killed his Enyo and several other ships. he backed off, sitting cloaked and running away when we showed fighting ships.
After the second dec, he just followed one of my corp mates through several other corps. ganking hulks.
the wardec system really doesn't mean anything. for the people that use it it will mean pretty much the same thing that it did before. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
20
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Posted - 2012.05.16 07:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
With a 50m base cost, if you're under 30 or so members, you're probably going to have to **** someone off for them to come after you. Mind your own business and I doubt you will have problems. I honestly think that this change will result in less wardecs for corps <50 people. |
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Vqu
NSIDE Finance Of Sound Mind
0
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Posted - 2012.05.16 09:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why is it that the war dec system should work any different for a industry corporation than for any other corporation? Being war dec'ed is just as annoying for everyone else as it is for you. Corporations are rarely happy to hear that they got war dec'ed (unless you are the attacker) but it's just something we all have to deal with.
There are quite a few ways to prepare yourself during the 24 hour countdown.
Find out as much as possible about the attacker. Corp members, killboard, timezone and possible what area they stage from. Evegate and google will get you a long way. Send a corporation wide mail to you members and ask them to put each and every member of the attacking corporation on their watchlist. Knowing if a war target is online is very important and it can safe ships. Run locator agents! Being able to know where that single war dec target logged out makes everything eaiser. Have a alt on standby to locate him should he suddenly log ind. For POS owners - Please stop running POS'es without any defence anchored. You shouldn't have done it when guns affected the fuel cost, and now when the cost is the same with or without guns is there no reason not to have them.
And remember no one can "Win" a non-mutual war dec. It's your job as the defending corporation to deny the attakcers from getting any kills, because any kills you give them is just another reason to war dec you again. NSIDE Finance [EPAX] is a Science and Industry Corporation. We specialities in research of Capital BPO's and Ship Manufacturing.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
242
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Posted - 2012.05.16 10:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
you can win any highsec war by making the aggressors killboard look weird and very embarrassing for him
get some blackbirds and a lot of noobships, bait with an overtanked orca, warp in the blackbirds, jam them and kill them with noobships
after some noobshib kills you can be pretty certain that the war will end very soon |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2012.05.16 14:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:you can win any highsec war by making the aggressors killboard look weird and very embarrassing for him
get some blackbirds and a lot of noobships, bait with an overtanked orca, warp in the blackbirds, jam them and kill them with noobships
after some noobshib kills you can be pretty certain that the war will end very soon
This tactic is dependent on having enough pilots to drop enough noob ships. but its an idea that i really really like. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
Selissa Shadoe
39
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Posted - 2012.05.16 15:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Great ideas from everyone. I appreciate the responses. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
99
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Posted - 2012.05.16 20:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Gilbaron wrote:you can win any highsec war by making the aggressors killboard look weird and very embarrassing for him
get some blackbirds and a lot of noobships, bait with an overtanked orca, warp in the blackbirds, jam them and kill them with noobships
after some noobshib kills you can be pretty certain that the war will end very soon This tactic is dependent on having enough pilots to drop enough noob ships. but its an idea that i really really like.
High-sec wardec'ers tend to look for corps with very few members or easy-target small or medium towers. If you have enough members to take a pro-active approach to a wardec in your indy corp, chances are you won't get a wardec unless you're baiting. |
Jurinak
White Water.
4
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Posted - 2012.05.16 22:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:High-sec wardec'ers tend to look for corps with very few members or easy-target small or medium towers. If you have enough members to take a pro-active approach to a wardec in your indy corp, chances are you won't get a wardec unless you're baiting.
small Corps are very boring to dec them. You want targets whenever someone of your corp log in, the best is something between 50 to 100 Member active around the clock.
Tiny corps are only interesting for rookie pvper who want to make there first experience |
sitar seaton
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.05.19 06:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Log out and play another game till the wardec wears off. Lots of fun games out there, mw3, bf3, d3....all threes....hmmm |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2012.05.19 13:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Selissa Shadoe wrote: With the upcoming wardec changes that will not allow wardecs to be 'scraped off', it makes me wonder how it will be possible to have an industrial company (mining etc.) when any 1 man corp idiot can wardec you and effectively shut you down for a week.
I'm curious what other industry types think about this.
20,000 + Goons and CFC can War Dec your 1-Man Corp and shut you down permanently at this very moment. No changes needed and they won't stop them anyway. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2012.05.19 13:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jurinak wrote:
Tiny corps are only interesting for rookie pvper who want to War Dec and then not undock at all for the next week.
^^ Just made a minor correction there for you. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
I am not worried about it at all. I keep all the mods to turn my research high-sec pos into a D*ck-Star at a nearby station. Obviously I keep all valuable BPOs locked away safely in the station. If someone wants to spend 6 hours shooting down my empty POS they are welcome to it, a new med pos is not that expensive. |
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