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Dantax Minmatar Europa Trade Federation	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:10:00 - [1] Edited by: Dantax on 12/06/2009 09:11:09 Background Information: Background information on this IPO Corporation Details Coporation Name: Europa Trade Federation Corporate Director: Dantax Number of members: 1 Trade speciality: Munitions Audit:Open to public audit Investment Details Share quantity available for purchase: 990 Value of shares per unit: 1 million ISK per 10 shares Operational length of IPO: 1 month Expected return on investment: 50% Committment to investment: 1 month Investment report frequency: Weekly (Sat/Sun) Exit strategy Details Upon wrapping up this IPO all shares will be bought back at 100% of their original value, remaining assets will be liquidated and passed onto investors as profit. IPO Start date:17th June 2009 Shares are now available for reservation. safeguards for investors:100 million ISK will be transfered to a 3rd party for holding to safeguard 100% of investors investment. The 3rd party holding will be arranged and named before investors are required to transfer share costs. Investors are required to transfer the ISK equivalent to share values purchased to Europa Trade Federation before the official launch. Investors who reserve shares will be notified via eve mail to complete the transfer of ISK and shares. DO NOT TRANSFER MONEY NOW - YOU WILL BE NOTIFIED BY EVE MAIL WHEN TO TRANSFER ISK.* Any ISK transfered to Europa Trade Federation before the official transfer will be returned. Thank you Dantax - Corporate Director Europa Trade Federation Great sig, just it's over 24000kbs :) - Cortes
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:12:00 - [2] Has anyone noticed that following a resounding scam the number of IPOs always shoot up? Black Sun Empire
Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp Legio Mithras	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:16:00 - [3] I'll take 990 shares based upon the OP. Regards
Dantax Minmatar Europa Trade Federation	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:17:00 - [4] Originally by: YouGotRipped Has anyone noticed that following a resounding scam the number of IPOs always shoot up? Cause & Affect Great sig, just it's over 24000kbs :) - Cortes
Emmgel	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:18:00 - [5] Edited by: Emmgel on 12/06/2009 09:18:51 Reserve 990 shares on the basis that 100m isk is secured by a third party of repute on this forum -BadBobby is my assumption on the basis of previous earlier posting. Emmgel
Dantax Minmatar Europa Trade Federation	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:20:00 - [6] Originally by: Keyser Kahn I'll take 990 shares based upon the OP. Regards Thank you Your shares shall be reserved and you will be notified via Eve Mail as to the 3rd party holding the collateral and when to complete the transfer. Great sig, just it's over 24000kbs :) - Cortes
Dantax Minmatar Europa Trade Federation	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Emmgel Edited by: Emmgel on 12/06/2009 09:18:51 Reserve 990 shares on the basis that 100m isk is secured by a third party of repute on this forum -BadBobby is my assumption on the basis of previous earlier posting. Emmgel The full shares available for purchase have now been reserved. Thank you for your interest. Great sig, just it's over 24000kbs :) - Cortes
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Emmgel Edited by: Emmgel on 12/06/2009 09:18:51 Reserve 990 shares on the basis that 100m isk is secured by a third party of repute on this forum -BadBobby is my assumption on the basis of previous earlier posting. Emmgel I don't think that has actually been discussed, but I have no issue with holding the isk for a month. Although I find the premise behind doing this bizzarre at the best. I could understand it if we were talking about items used as collateral, but isk collateral for isk is just silly. The whole transaction serves no purpose. Originally by: Dantax Originally by: Keyser Kahn I'll take 990 shares based upon the OP. Regards Thank you Your shares shall be reserved and you will be notified via Eve Mail as to the 3rd party holding the collateral and when to complete the transfer. So, is there any particular reason why you are snubbing Oi U's offer for the same, in the previous thread?
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Bad Bobby I could understand it if we were talking about items used as collateral, but isk collateral for isk is just silly. The whole transaction serves no purpose. Reeks of yet another fallen prey to the (unfathomable) compulsion to pointlessly try to "build a reputation" via public offerings on the forums, to me.
Dantax Minmatar Europa Trade Federation	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:43:00 - [10] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Emmgel Edited by: Emmgel on 12/06/2009 09:18:51 Reserve 990 shares on the basis that 100m isk is secured by a third party of repute on this forum -BadBobby is my assumption on the basis of previous earlier posting. Emmgel I don't think that has actually been discussed, but I have no issue with holding the isk for a month. Although I find the premise behind doing this bizzarre at the best. I could understand it if we were talking about items used as collateral, but isk collateral for isk is just silly. The whole transaction serves no purpose. Originally by: Dantax Originally by: Keyser Kahn I'll take 990 shares based upon the OP. Regards Thank you Your shares shall be reserved and you will be notified via Eve Mail as to the 3rd party holding the collateral and when to complete the transfer. So, is there any particular reason why you are snubbing Oi U's offer for the same, in the previous thread? Not snubbing his offer at all, the previous thread was purely for feedback and questions. As there is no minimum or maximum share purchase required the reservation has already been met. And to clarify why I am doing this with other peoples money and not my own is because I want to establish trust and build reputation by running a profitable and trustworthy IPO. My idea was to start small and to build up slowly offering low investment and low risk IPO's until I and potential investors feel comfortable enough to invest larger sums. And if you are happy to act as 3rd party in holding 100 million ISK for my IPO I would be most grateful. Let me know what charge or compensation you require for your services.
Oi U	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:44:00 - [11] Aye! So a pirates gold not good enough for ye? Ye lubbers are all the same! Worth nout but for plunder.
Dantax Minmatar Europa Trade Federation	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Lui Kai Originally by: Bad Bobby I could understand it if we were talking about items used as collateral, but isk collateral for isk is just silly. The whole transaction serves no purpose. Reeks of yet another fallen prey to the (unfathomable) compulsion to pointlessly try to "build a reputation" via public offerings on the forums, to me. I disagree, I don't think it's pointless at all when EVE's greatest and hardest to obtain assets are in-fact trust and a good reputation; which in my opinion has to be earned and not expected.
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Dantax I disagree, I don't think it's pointless at all when EVE's greatest and hardest to obtain assets are in-fact trust and a good reputation; which in my opinion has to be earned and not expected. Well, that would be a valid argument, except: 1. A reputation isn't something you choose to build or not build, it's a natural byproduct of your behavior, personality, and actions. This forum likes to pretend that one can enforce artifically created "rules" around whether or not someone has "a reputation," but it's something we all do, to everyone we interact with, ever. Automatically. For example - to me, you now have a "reputation" of being someone who's planning on asking for a bigger amount later, and is willing to do pointless legwork in the here and now to appease strangers - rather than applying that time towards a higher degree of self-sufficiency and self-leverage upward (which would negate the need to ask for outside assistance). 2. Anyone who consciously works to gain trust is best not given any. Though, I freely admit the above may be my bias showing through. You may consider all this tail-chasing work worthwhile, to get your chance for a bit of forum posturing. It's your time. ----------------
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Lui Kai Originally by: Bad Bobby I could understand it if we were talking about items used as collateral, but isk collateral for isk is just silly. The whole transaction serves no purpose. Reeks of yet another fallen prey to the (unfathomable) compulsion to pointlessly try to "build a reputation" via public offerings on the forums, to me. It could be that, I grant you. But I'm more suspicious of someone offering high returns but selecting who they will accept their investment from. For all we know it could be a sham offering. Originally by: Dantax Originally by: Lui Kai Originally by: Bad Bobby I could understand it if we were talking about items used as collateral, but isk collateral for isk is just silly. The whole transaction serves no purpose. Reeks of yet another fallen prey to the (unfathomable) compulsion to pointlessly try to "build a reputation" via public offerings on the forums, to me. I disagree, I don't think it's pointless at all when EVE's greatest and hardest to obtain assets are in-fact trust and a good reputation; which in my opinion has to be earned and not expected. You cannot build up a reputation for being trustworthy without being trusted with anything. Do this without collateral and you can earn trust, do it with an audit of your trading activities and you can have it on record that you are able to trade on a small scale, what you are doing here gets you neither. In fact, the lack of logic at work here does more harm to your reputation than good.
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:12:00 - [15] After reading your 4 hour burnout from before, I'd say this whole debacle would have been more honest if you just offered to directly pay people willing to call you trustworthy.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Lui Kai After reading your 4 hour burnout from before, I'd say this whole debacle would have been more honest if you just offered to directly pay people willing to call you trustworthy. Bribes? Now we're talking, I new I spent all this time building a rep in MD for a reason.
EVEHelpisSeriousBusiness	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:21:00 - [17] Poasting in an epic thread.
Dantax Minmatar Europa Trade Federation	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Lui Kai After reading your 4 hour burnout from before, I'd say this whole debacle would have been more honest if you just offered to directly pay people willing to call you trustworthy. You can make your assumptions about my intentions but it seems like you are trying to bait me into a b**ching war, which I won't rise to.
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:24:00 - [19] I will provide 100m in collateral but require only 90 m isk. Payout 60m. Invest in me instead of the op.
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:25:00 - [20] No, no ***ing war. I just like honesty. And, since you've said above that you: A) Have the isk in the amount you're trying to raise, liquid and available. and B) Are doing this to gain an oh-so-valuable forum-rep Then A + B = "I'm paying you to prove I'm trustworthy" It's a logical fallacy at best, and functional ****ation at worst.
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:28:00 - [21] Confirming that I'm receiving the isk. Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
Dantax Minmatar Europa Trade Federation	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Lui Kai No, no ***ing war. I just like honesty. And, since you've said above that you: A) Have the isk in the amount you're trying to raise, liquid and available. and B) Are doing this to gain an oh-so-valuable forum-rep Then A + B = "I'm paying you to prove I'm trustworthy" It's a logical fallacy at best, and functional ****ation at worst. All businesses have to start somewhere and start small and I am happy walking before running. One thing I have learned from this forum is that many new IPO's which require high investment are claimed to be scams and yes probably some are, so to offer low investment low risk initially I think is good practice to earn trust and to build a reputation for future ventures. Great sig, just it's over 24000kbs :) - Cortes
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:35:00 - [23] So functional ******ation, then. Gotcha. ----------------
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:38:00 - [24] Lui you forgot about frequent flyer miles.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:40:00 - [25] Quote: You cannot build up a reputation for being trustworthy without being trusted with anything. Do this without collateral and you can earn trust I think this "build rep" issue is on the same plane of what happens in the rookie chat when you start the trial. As you enter, all you read is how you are supposed to mine as best thing ever and no never try low sec or to try it when you have 20M SP (good game, the guy will die like a noob then, and lose expensive implants). In MD, the "thou shall have rep" is often echoing like it's a prerequisite to be min max grinded like you'd grind agents standings. See, it's not about having an ill intention, it's really how the market "package" is sold for what a MD newbie can learn. What we need is that someone "famous" posted what's said on SCC-Lounge. It was a sudden realization at how distant from the truth are the "grind rep" indirect advices.
Alua Oresson Broken Sphere	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:49:00 - [26] You have to admit, quite a few of these IPOs/Bonds are amusing to read. To be honest, the more out there the prospective manager is, the more I would like to invest in them actually. My question is, why care about your "rep"? With all this work you are doing to "build your reputation" you could be making more money than what you are borrowing could ever hope to achieve.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Dantax And if you are happy to act as 3rd party in holding 100 million ISK for my IPO I would be most grateful. Let me know what charge or compensation you require for your services. Sure, I'll do it and I'll do it for free. But you should really rethink this approach, you're not earning anything positive out of it. You should have left out the collateral and just let someone snap it up on the basis of "100m isk in and 150m isk out".
Romanov DeBeers Gallente Small Gods	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:28:00 - [28] I can talk from experience on 100% collateral and I would not now recommend them at any level. 100% collateral, whether it be isk or goods, is effectively printing money for the MD community and gives the IPO/Bond owner no real reputation. There is no risk for the MD community and therefore the MD community learns nothing about the IPO/Bond owner. <100% collateral does work when the IPO uses BPOs. Often these items are billion plus commodities that are not consumed. However these items are used in conjunction with minerals which will not be covered by collateral. An investor should only consider the unsecured portion of the IPO/Bond when reviewing rep so a 10B bond with 80% collateral should only be considered as a 2B reputation not a 10B reputation.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.12 16:27:00 - [29] Quote: One thing I have learned from this forum is that many new IPO's which require high investment are claimed to be scams and yes probably some are, so to offer low investment low risk initially I think is good practice to earn trust and to build a reputation for future ventures What part of "1. A reputation isn't something you choose to build or not build, it's a natural byproduct of your behavior, personality, and actions." is not clear?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.12 16:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Lui Kai Edited by: Lui Kai on 12/06/2009 10:37:34 So functional ******ation, then. Gotcha. MD is not a credit card. Borrowing money pointlessly to only immediately pay it back + interest doesn't raise your score. This I look for someone who while not be polished perfectly around the edges, has a plan that seems like it may work and is willing to bend when suggested.
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2009.06.12 23:24:00 - [31] Look at it this way: If a random stranger walked up to you on the street and said, "Hey I need to borrow $20. But to make sure I don't run off with it, I'll give you $20 to hold while I'm using it. Then when I'm done, I'll come back to you and give you $25, and you give me back my $20," you would naturally assume something very screwy was going on. Even if you agreed to the above and came out $5 richer, you wouldn't walk away with a sense of trust and respect for that person. You'd be laughing at him.
Mordou	Posted - 2009.06.12 23:31:00 - [32] Edited by: Mordou on 12/06/2009 23:31:53 So if I understand this IPO, (which I guess is more of a bond?) you are giving whoever invests 50 mil in essence? Why don't you just pick an MD regular and send them 50 mil and ask to get vouched for? Also, as a noob here myself, one of the things I have heard, is that the amount of isk you are loaned without collateral is how much people trust you. A 6 bil bond with 4 bil in collateral:the owner is only being trusted with 2 mil, etc... So in essence you are being trusted with no isk. I understand what you are trying to do, however you seem to be going about it the wrong way. Edit: Forgot, sarcasm goes in Italics

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