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Eve Elitist? your views

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Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity	Posted - 2009.06.14 18:06:00 - [1] No matter how hard i try to get past this I just dont seem to be able to. So please put your views. Dapto
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.06.14 18:10:00 - [2] Anybody who argues that there's no elitism in the eve-o community is wrong
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity	Posted - 2009.06.14 18:17:00 - [3] Well you'd know lavista you've been playing for ages and have been a csm twice. TBH it makes you want a new mmo in the same vain to start up so you can get in on the ground floor. Dapto
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange	Posted - 2009.06.14 19:49:00 - [4] Yeah, Eve is fairly snooty, but it's not about "the ground floor" as much as it is about the attitude. Eve is bloodthirsty, and the Eve community(or at least, a big and vocal section of it) has no respect for you unless you are too. That doesn't even mean you're necessarily a killer pirate, but you'd better at least be good about your industry, trade, or whatever else, and you'd better not cry too hard when something you worked months for goes up in a pretty light show because you did something stupid with it. If you're willing to man up, take the bad with the good, and not expect the game to give you freebies, then you're pretty much part of the "elite" as a day-old character. And if you're not, well, you can have been playing since the beta, and still get "GB2WoW" thrown at you whenever you open your mouth. It's not necessarily bad, though it certainly is when people go too far with it, but I'd say "elitism" is a fair term for it.
Fille Balle Dissolution Of Eternity	Posted - 2009.06.14 20:09:00 - [5] Um, well now. It depends. Some ingame circles are very elitist (BoB anyone?), but in the long run they suffer for it. Goons for example, don't care who (or what) you are, as long as you don't whine too much and are a member of SA. Forums? Well, it seems the most elitist of them all are also the most vocal on the forums. I believe it has something to do with the fact that in game only the people in the same channel are able to hear you. That, and they fact that people are probably sick of listening to the same record repeating itself in game. All in all, I'd say most of the players aren't very elitist. I have found that it is in fact a small minority that thinks of themslves as better than the average player. Sure, if somebody thinks there ought to be a safe way for them to obtain the best gear in the game, most people will tell them b2wow. I've found that no matter how silly your question is, people will generally be helpful, as long as the approach is right. It's more about attitude than anything else.
Zelphinine	Posted - 2009.06.15 22:07:00 - [6] Edited by: Zelphinine on 15/06/2009 22:07:38 EVE in a nutshell
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.06.16 06:54:00 - [7] This game is more hardcore, demands more and is focused more heavily on player competition, than most modern MMOs. Removing those hardcore features would be very damaging to this game. EVE can't cater to everyone equally or the dynamic and complex world we have will die or change to MMO clone #???. So while the attitude we have is at times very aggressive and rude, it has a basis in the context of this game. We love this game, we have tried other games, so we know what they are like and copying their features would kill everything we love about this game. So how exactly am I supposed to answer to people too stupid to usually even see the effects their ideas have to the game? Should I pretend their ideas have merit, because they are blind or don't care about those effects? It really doesn't seem unwaranted to say, that their ideas should never be implemented in this game and direct them to a game I know already caters to their desires. I don't think I'm better than them, but I don't value the things they value and love the things they hate. What I think makes my views better, is that I try to take into consideration the whole context. That context is EVE. Any person that ignores the dynamics and the nature of the game(insert the usual whine about the harsness and lack of handholding) in his views, deserves a few harsh words. People that see the whole picture and disagree with me or point out the flaws in my thinking are OK in my book.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.16 22:43:00 - [8] Edited by: RedSplat on 16/06/2009 22:43:51 Yes. Its a good thing. Horrible game changes arent hard to trace to whining from 'new blood' used to other MMO's that think EVE is too hard or 'unfair'. I dont like people ****ing in the sandbox. I am considering finding out just how horrible i can be to players i dont think 'fit' this game before i am into banhammer territory. Call it a pre-emptive strike if you will, or maybe i had an unpleasant childhood or maybe i am a real life sociopath!
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.17 04:32:00 - [9] I not sure what you mean... eve players being elitist in regard to other MMO players or eve elite acting elitist toward other eve players. Look at it this way: it takes a certain amount of leverage to be able to assert ones elitism successfully. If someone who has no leverage over you acts elite...ignore them.
Terrigal	Posted - 2009.06.17 11:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Terrigal on 17/06/2009 11:12:23 Hey Red, seen your post in C&P so im sure you can and would. I think the op means elitism as in i've been around since xxxx and and have 40mil sp's plus, Or our alliance has been in control of xyz 0.0 constellation for the last x years. If you want to come here you pay, for any one wishing to try and forcably take any part from these elitist groups would be a costly mistake. Its this elitism that makes this game extremely tough for newer players under 2 years old and for them to team up and do anything of any consequence or substantial. So players are left with if i cant beet them join them and we're seeing that now with the goons. They did say they'd take over all of 0.0 one day and if this situation stays the same they probably will as theyll be the last man standing so to speak. In real life they say time is money, in EVE time is skills points, isk and power.

Terrigal	Posted - 2009.06.17 11:28:00 - [11] I have been thinking about a scheme that would make become elitist too. Lets say i've come into a subtantial windfall and I dont need the money. In this hypothetical I can afford to buy 1000 GTC's, with these i flood the market and sell them for say 500mil each. For me as a player I'll recieve 500bil isk for everyone else buying and selling GTC's they either compete or they wont buy them. Do you honestly think in doing this I wont control the market?. Do you think its any different ingame? I think not.
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.06.18 20:15:00 - [12] I can't say I regret an elitist quality to EVE. I like the environment and the ruthless quality of it. I've been on the receiving end of many an unkind volley but that's the nature of the beast. I don't particularly enjoy seeing my ship explode but it is part and parcel of the experience. Some people find they are not cut out for the callous, indifferent nature of the EVE universe. I see their tiny boats floating near stations and stargates. So be it. Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.	Posted - 2009.06.19 03:02:00 - [13] I get where your comming from and I accept that as part of the game. But do we really want another new form of elitism a "Millionaires War". A situation where im rich as hell out of game battle it out ingame. Who else is this game is a "Millionaire" ? Dapto
mazzilliu	Posted - 2009.06.19 14:36:00 - [14] Edited by: mazzilliu on 19/06/2009 14:36:11 the learning curve in this game is so steep anyone that can manage to tell the difference between their ass and their face is pretty elite. thankfully in eve after about 3-6 months or so anybody can be about as elite as anybody else so long as they put a lot of effort into learning the game and provided they allocated their skills correctly. 3-6 months is about as much time as you need to fly one ship about as well as you will ever fly it, skillpoints-wise. i dunno why you posted this in the csm forums, what are we supposed to do about eve's elitism anyways~
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.	Posted - 2009.06.19 19:46:00 - [15] Mazzilliu I brought it up in here because as time goes on this will get worse. I remember when i started again i saw like all noobs all these 2003-6 players and thought i'll never catch up never even get close to the skills these players have. In time though I've met 2005 players with less skill points than me, though I do think thats not the general case. Take an example its 2013 and i log on and create an account for the first time see all these players who on the face value are 10 years old characters. What will a noob think then?. Its just something to keep in mind as the industry I work in used to be and still is somewhat elitist, and trying to get a foot in the door is still almost impossible. This has been a detriment overall as its difficult to find people who will stick around to learn the ropes as like EVE, it has a huge learing curve and its also a harsh uncaring enviroment where you can loose your job on someones whim. I just see this as a looming issue that needs to be looked at even if its not addressed. Dapto
Lexa Hellfury Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.06.19 22:47:00 - [16] Originally by: Dapto Take an example its 2013 and i log on and create an account for the first time see all these players who on the face value are 10 years old characters. What will a noob think then?. You seem to be making the mistake that skillpoints = elite. This is not the case. Just last night I beat a character in a 1v1 who has about 4 times the SP that I do. Eve, more so than any other MMO out there, is about player development rather than in-game character development. If you bring the right ship and fittings for the job, then skillpoints are merely complimentary. If you specialize in one particular area properly, then the only advantage a higher SP character has is the ability to fly a wider variety of ships. Having Recons 5, HAC 5, Command Ship 5, BS 5 and Carrier 5 really isn't an advantage in a fight because you can still only fly one ship at a time, and if a 6 month old character brings the right setup to counter that ship, then it doesn't make a bit of difference.
mazzilliu	Posted - 2009.06.19 23:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Dapto Mazzilliu I brought it up in here because as time goes on this will get worse. I remember when i started again i saw like all noobs all these 2003-6 players and thought i'll never catch up never even get close to the skills these players have. In time though I've met 2005 players with less skill points than me, though I do think thats not the general case. Take an example its 2013 and i log on and create an account for the first time see all these players who on the face value are 10 years old characters. What will a noob think then?. Its just something to keep in mind as the industry I work in used to be and still is somewhat elitist, and trying to get a foot in the door is still almost impossible. This has been a detriment overall as its difficult to find people who will stick around to learn the ropes as like EVE, it has a huge learing curve and its also a harsh uncaring enviroment where you can loose your job on someones whim. I just see this as a looming issue that needs to be looked at even if its not addressed. after i played this game about a year- whatever i wanted to do, besides flying caps, could pretty much be done and the only thing getting in the way was what i did or did not decide to do with myself. the only advantage vets have is more spread out skill training and more of it, but in most situations you can only use a certain # of mil SP at a time. any feelings of inferiority after 6 months to a year of playing are just because the player imagines they are inferior. ~~probably because they are~~ but that's a self fulfilling prophecy and not the fault of the game. what do you mean losing a job? you mean getting kicked out of your corp? so i guess newbies are the only ones vulnerable to getting kicked out by their CEO on a whim?
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.	Posted - 2009.06.20 05:43:00 - [18] I think i've got a solution to Yes you're probably right Mazziliu the perception from new players of elitism. But first i'll respond to the whim statement, I work in international entertainment industry and getting Fired, told to go take a walk, on "whim" can come from the artists, promoters, managers, senior crew. I've seen it done often I'm even guilty of it myself, wake up on the wrong side of bed, someone riles you, they get their marching orders. This it seems to happen in EVE too. Solution is like Certificates that be can make non public, do the same thing for character creation date and corps joined. If you wish to apply to a corp you can make that information available then. In this way no one will know who's how old and possibly more people will PVP from this change. Dapto
mazzilliu	Posted - 2009.06.21 02:52:00 - [19] that would make recruitment a horrible nightmare. no reason to **** up everybody else's lives because someone has some false feeling of inferiority due to their regdate. MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.21 10:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Dapto Solution is like Certificates that be can make non public, do the same thing for character creation date and corps joined. If you wish to apply to a corp you can make that information available then. In this way no one will know who's how old and possibly more people will PVP from this change. I like that idea. Why should an entire career history be public knowledge?

Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.	Posted - 2009.06.21 10:55:00 - [21] Mazz i dont see this as an issue with recruiting as the applicant can be asked for them to show you their corp history. BTW If this is no concern of CCP's why are they releasing a parrel game in Germany shortly ?
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.	Posted - 2009.06.21 11:08:00 - [22] Also Mazz if I applied to sniggerdly I'd be told go take a hike as I do not have a kill board that wouldnt impress a gnat and possibly not enough skills point yet. Even though I'm keen, ingame rich, own caps, can build T2 on my alt. I'm aware that a corp/alliance like yours doesnt want time waisters and people who no idea of the game. There are many people in Eve who would be a benifit to sniggerdly even though they dont meet your requirements. "Elite" come to mind.
mazzilliu	Posted - 2009.06.21 13:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Dapto Also Mazz if I applied to sniggerdly I'd be told go take a hike as I do not have a kill board that wouldnt impress a gnat and possibly not enough skills point yet. Even though I'm keen, ingame rich, own caps, can build T2 on my alt. I'm aware that a corp/alliance like yours doesnt want time waisters and people who no idea of the game. There are many people in Eve who would be a benifit to sniggerdly even though they dont meet your requirements. "Elite" come to mind. being involved in this huge war has really skewed our recruitment. but hopefully this will go back to the way it was. "the way it was" meant we would take on 2 month old newbies when they show the ability to learn and play well with the knowledge they gained- and of course kill boatloads of stuff. all the "elitism" entirely comes down to fear of spies, and the simple fact that fewer people keep spy alts for years then they do for months. inferiority in eve as well as a lot of other things in life always boils down to whether the pilot feels himself inferior and unworthy, or does not. anyways in practical recruiting terms getting them while they're young more likely ensures their loyalty to you.
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.	Posted - 2009.06.21 17:18:00 - [24] Fair Point Mazz, and i know the spy issue is something that concerns me to. Anyway i'll leave this topic alone now as I can see you've thought about and have your own views and fair enough we all have the right to that. Oh BTW maybe one day we can chat on vent as I think it would be enlightening for both of us. Cheers Dapto Dapto
mazzilliu	Posted - 2009.06.21 19:54:00 - [25] oh ok, sure
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.06.22 22:47:00 - [26] Edited by: Uronksur Suth on 22/06/2009 22:47:29 Obviously there's some elitism in EVE. I'm sure everyone here has seen posts by people sneering at the "Carebears" Some people actually seem to actively dislike industrialists/Mission runners/miners which I've always found a bit confusing. So yes, I think there is a great deal of Elitism on the part of some of the more PvP obsessed. Most of the player base is fine, but there are a few that seem to think that just because you prefer mining and manufacturing to high-stakes combat most of the time, your must be a gutless degenerate.
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:16:00 - [27] Originally by: Terrigal i've been around since xxxx and and have 40mil sp's plus I am always embarrassed to tell people stuff like this due to the response I might get: You have close to 50mil sp and you did what??!!?? You noob! (followed by laughter on vent)
Photon Ceray	Posted - 2009.07.08 14:14:00 - [28] Well, I just made a noob character and played with it on evemon a bit, I trained this character to fly a vagabond decently (full t2 with most things level 4) and I was able to achieve that with some 8m SP and about 5 months. Then I have made him to fly a vagabond with max skills, and I was able to easily put 30m sp just into flying the vagabond and maximizing it, (hac V, med AC spec V, support gunnery, shields, nav and all to V). You cannot say that the elite pilot will not have a considerable advantage over the normal one, maybe 50-75% better overall even if they have the same intellectual skill! it is impossible to deny there is a strong degree of elitism in EVE, like someone said, in 2013 new players will have so much to catch up to, now the average requirement for a pvp corp is flying t2 hacs/recons, sniper/rr BS, but in a few years the standard will be flying, if not owning capital ships, maybe in 2017 ppl need to be able to fly a titan to be considered into good alliances! Something must be done about that, I have no idea what, but it is a problem.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.11 19:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Photon Ceray Well, I just made a noob character and played with it on evemon a bit, I trained this character to fly a vagabond decently (full t2 with most things level 4) and I was able to achieve that with some 8m SP and about 5 months. Then I have made him to fly a vagabond with max skills, and I was able to easily put 30m sp just into flying the vagabond and maximizing it, (hac V, med AC spec V, support gunnery, shields, nav and all to V). You cannot say that the elite pilot will not have a considerable advantage over the normal one, maybe 50-75% better overall even if they have the same intellectual skill! it is impossible to deny there is a strong degree of elitism in EVE, like someone said, in 2013 new players will have so much to catch up to, now the average requirement for a pvp corp is flying t2 hacs/recons, sniper/rr BS, but in a few years the standard will be flying, if not owning capital ships, maybe in 2017 ppl need to be able to fly a titan to be considered into good alliances! Something must be done about that, I have no idea what, but it is a problem. You have a point, the SP requirements make joining a good corp nearly impossible for new players. Of course unfortunately CCP can't do anything about that.
Vertinox	Posted - 2009.07.13 15:19:00 - [30] Originally by: Dapto No matter how hard i try to get past this I just dont seem to be able to. So please put your views. I have found the solution to be a rather gratuitous use of the block feature. It seems to the one weakness of people who trash talk.



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