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Dapto
Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.19 06:15:00 -
[1]
I'll try and post this for the third time.
I have this issue not only in my corp but with old friends ive meet along the way and these people are in my address book.
Should I boot them or remove them from my address book or maybe they log in when im not on i've no idea.
I know in the corp you can tell "over a month" since they logged on. Err for BS lvl5 I probably wont log on for 35 days either like alot of my corpies. Dapto |
Dapto
Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.19 06:18:00 -
[2]
Also CCP you should look at wiping all inactive accounts that are over 3 years old. Do you honestly think these people will all of the sudden log in and pay-play again? its just more database clutter you can get rid of. Dapto |
Treelox
Amarr Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.06.19 06:25:00 -
[3]
I'm not sure I would want this sort of imformation to be public, it gives away way to much intel about a corps actual active roster.
btw, I have known people who quit in 2004 and 2005, to come back for the first time in 2009 and restart their old chars.
TL:DR gives out too much intel to reds. --
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Dapto
Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.19 06:35:00 -
[4]
I am aware of this maybe this is a way to address the concerns of other players have i.e How anyone can put you into their address book to see it there on.
So in effect to be on someones address book requires you to accept a buddy list request. Dapto |
Treelox
Amarr Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.06.19 06:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Dapto I am aware of this maybe this is a way to address the concerns of other players have i.e How anyone can put you into their address book to see it there on.
So in effect to be on someones address book requires you to accept a buddy list request.
I would have no problems with buddy list additions having to be a mutual thing, but good luck convincing many other players to give up what has been a long established WT intel status gathering tool.
--
I see what your "problem" is in your intial post, and I too have "lost" friends in eve. I wonder aswell if they even log on anymore, I just dont see your first or your second solution gathering much support. Sorry. --
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Moloch Baal
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.06.19 14:19:00 -
[6]
quite recently, some 2005 guys I know, came back on their accounts. So yeah, it's a good thing they keep it. Then again, they can track all the trial accounts that never payed or used PLEX's, they should delete those. Loads of names have been taken up due to this too...
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Syringe
Oedipus Complex
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Posted - 2009.06.19 16:12:00 -
[7]
Not in support of any of this.
I don't need people knowing when my alts are or are not active.
Keep them in your address book and boot them after a certain period.
Set your corp policy to allow people to re-apply if they've been booted for hiatus, and you shouldn't have many issues if your corpies tend to not log in for extended periods of time.
Deleting old player accounts is a BAD idea. No mainstream MMO does this that I'm aware of. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.06.19 17:28:00 -
[8]
All directors of a corp can see last login/logout of corp members, so the "Over a month" thing isn't a big deal. How you use your buddylist for intel is your business, I don't see why any rules changes are needed there. And for a subscription-fee game, you NEVER, EVER wipe old accounts. The database clutter is meaningless, whereas the ability to bring old players back in more easily is valuable.
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.06.19 18:49:00 -
[9]
They should have a character archive database. Any character that hasn't logged on in over a year should be moved there. If the owner of the character wishes to restore it, they would be able to do so in the Account Management Services.
There are several benefits in doing this:
- Character database backup and maintenance would take much less time, thus possibly reducing the length of weekly maintenance.
- Searching for a character in game wouldn't return inactive characters anymore
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Dapto
Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.19 19:18:00 -
[10]
Herschel i've forgotten the ammount of times ive started and quit this game since 2003 and all the alts created when major changes are made are my 60 various inactive accounts really viable ? Dapto |
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Fille Balle
Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.19 19:31:00 -
[11]
Hi Dap, sorry I can't play soo much these days. The family needs me badly these days. Hopefully this will change sometime in the near future, but no promises.
Either way, I believe your right. There ought to be a way to know if people have not been on for a while. Maybe even a way to figure out if they've de-subbed. In the corp I joined after leaving disso, the CEO suddenly left without any warning.
I don't hold that against him, but I still think there should be a way to figure out what's going on. If he had desubbed, there would have been more reason to form a new corp. As it was, there was no way of knowing, and we went on for 6 weeks before taking action. This didn't help morale to put it mildly.
I read a story about a guy that played wow and passed away, and his guild was like: "omg, did we say something to upset him? Did he leave? Does he not care about us anymore?" His daughter had to get him account info from Blizzard and contact the people in the game to restore his honour (e-honour). I know that might sound lame, but it meant a lot to him, and his guild was very appeased by the message that they got at last.
In fact, one guy thought he had left because of an arguement they had the day before. I can very easily imagine him living his life out with that feeling of guilt. I now it's just a game, but the people are real.
I normally don't give a donkey about people in games, but I must say, I've met some very interesting people in eve, and even though I don't consider e-buddies friends, I... well, um... *sigh* well ok, you see, they're good guys... and you know? Bah, allright, yes, I sort, of, well you know, kind of, percieve them as, friends... NOT THAT I DON'T have friends in RL. Don't get me wrong.
Meh, I've spilled the beans. Those guys are just too nice to not consider as friends. So yes, I think there should be options available. Maybe a "beg CCP to convey a message". Either way, I think a bit more clarity would help.
PS: I feel sorry for all of you guys out there that haven't made any friends in eve.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.06.19 19:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dapto Herschel i've forgotten the ammount of times ive started and quit this game since 2003 and all the alts created when major changes are made are my 60 various inactive accounts really viable ?
Would CCP rather get the meg of hard drive space back, or would they rather give you the choice to come back at some point in the future? They don't know that you're never going to reactivate them, and they can probably fit every character in the game onto the sort of hard drive you can get at Costco these days.
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.06.19 19:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Dapto Herschel i've forgotten the ammount of times ive started and quit this game since 2003 and all the alts created when major changes are made are my 60 various inactive accounts really viable ?
Would CCP rather get the meg of hard drive space back, or would they rather give you the choice to come back at some point in the future? They don't know that you're never going to reactivate them, and they can probably fit every character in the game onto the sort of hard drive you can get at Costco these days.
That's why I said they should instead move the inactive character in a sort of Archive database, so the main database is smaller and easier to maintain.
I'm sure there are millions of characters in the character database, if not billions. That's a hell of a lot of records to backup during maintenance. The game has been around since 2003, so I'm sure a great portion of those characters have been inactive for over a year. Cleaning them up would really help with database performance.
As I also said, if a player wishes to restore an archive character, they would be able to do so in the Account Management page. A process would then move the character from the archive back into the live database.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.06.19 21:53:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Dapto Herschel i've forgotten the ammount of times ive started and quit this game since 2003 and all the alts created when major changes are made are my 60 various inactive accounts really viable ?
Would CCP rather get the meg of hard drive space back, or would they rather give you the choice to come back at some point in the future? They don't know that you're never going to reactivate them, and they can probably fit every character in the game onto the sort of hard drive you can get at Costco these days.
That's why I said they should instead move the inactive character in a sort of Archive database, so the main database is smaller and easier to maintain.
I'm sure there are millions of characters in the character database, if not billions. That's a hell of a lot of records to backup during maintenance. The game has been around since 2003, so I'm sure a great portion of those characters have been inactive for over a year. Cleaning them up would really help with database performance.
As I also said, if a player wishes to restore an archive character, they would be able to do so in the Account Management page. A process would then move the character from the archive back into the live database.
In other words, you want to create more database issues for CCP....as if they didn't have enough of those.
No support for this thread. Figure out who is active and who isn't. Its not hard.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.06.20 04:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Dapto Herschel i've forgotten the ammount of times ive started and quit this game since 2003 and all the alts created when major changes are made are my 60 various inactive accounts really viable ?
Would CCP rather get the meg of hard drive space back, or would they rather give you the choice to come back at some point in the future? They don't know that you're never going to reactivate them, and they can probably fit every character in the game onto the sort of hard drive you can get at Costco these days.
That's why I said they should instead move the inactive character in a sort of Archive database, so the main database is smaller and easier to maintain.
I'm sure there are millions of characters in the character database, if not billions. That's a hell of a lot of records to backup during maintenance. The game has been around since 2003, so I'm sure a great portion of those characters have been inactive for over a year. Cleaning them up would really help with database performance.
As I also said, if a player wishes to restore an archive character, they would be able to do so in the Account Management page. A process would then move the character from the archive back into the live database.
In other words, you want to create more database issues for CCP....as if they didn't have enough of those.
No support for this thread. Figure out who is active and who isn't. Its not hard.
--Isaac
What!? Did you even understand what I said? It wouldn't create more strain on the database, it would REMOVE some! Please don't say stuff like that if you don't know what you're talking about. Removing records from a database can only be a good thing for its performance. I also wouldn't expect the "resurection" requests to come up very often, as usually, if a character hasn't logged on in over a year, he probably won't come back.
The archiving of old characters would only be done something like once a week or even once a month. The first time it's done would be the longest of course, but afterwards, only a few would be archived per batch. It's just typical archiving man, and it's very common. |
Dapto
Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.20 06:05:00 -
[16]
I agree with you Fille, I'd consider you an on-line friend and the only reason we're no rl friends is distance (5000km). Fille is not the only person i've made friends with in this game and TBH if they came to Australia I'd be more than willing to let them stay in one of my houses (Perth, Sydney, Brisbane). Yes I am very trusting but i only give people enough rope to hang themselves, not many people ever abuse my trust due to this.
And I even have several players email addresses because they told me they were leaving EVE. I presume that alot of players go thru the same thing everytime your subscription is due. I debate in my mind whether to carry on for another 6months on the account thats due. If I just dissapeared one day no one can tell what the hells going on. Dapto |
Dapto
Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.20 06:12:00 -
[17]
So maybe the solution is moving them to an in-active account statis and should the player wish to start again a quick email to ccp with account & log-in details to re-active this account.
This is no real different than existing system except that non active accounts will be known if you search for them.
And dont say but ive lost that information (login details) cause if you have you couldnt login anyway on any proposed system. Dapto |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.06.20 06:25:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 20/06/2009 06:30:24 Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 20/06/2009 06:28:50 Should have been more specific. You now want CCP to separate their database into two sections. (Or maybe even two different servers). You realize you just doubled CCP's workload. Doesn't matter if its small or huge. You double it with your idea. And quite frankly, CCP doesn't need more work than it already has. Its trying to reduce this.
Also, what if that character comes back? Now they have to wait for CCP to unarchive them? Great, that just increased their workload there. Whereas right now, there is very little, if any, work that needs to be done to "unfreeze" a character.
Its not going to happen. Right now, how things are, is just fine and balanced. Your idea just adds more work for YOUR convenience. Which in all honesty, is not saving you much "time".
"I also wouldn't expect the "resurection" requests to come up very often, as usually, if a character hasn't logged on in over a year, he probably won't come back."
BS. Do you honestly know how this goes? Only CCP does. I quit WoW for a year and then returned. (Quit again) I'm pretty sure if little old me does it in that game, that there is a lot more requests than you think in this game. I even know ppl that have returned after a year they were gone in this game. Why should they be left out?
Get my point? Its a lot of work, for a lot of nothing for really no reason at all except for a minor complaint/issue. CCP has a lot more things that take much higher priority than this.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Dapto
Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.20 06:31:00 -
[19]
Yes ive done that too left and come back this time just over a year ago oh yea and i started again lost and forgotten the password login details of the old 2 accounts. See ive plently of old accounts i cant even remember the account details on so your points invalid. Dapto |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.06.20 06:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dapto Yes ive done that too left and come back this time just over a year ago oh yea and i started again lost and forgotten the password login details of the old 2 accounts. See ive plently of old accounts i cant even remember the account details on so your points invalid.
Umm....what? So because you can't remember your password my point is invalid? That makes....sense......
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Dapto
Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.20 11:38:00 -
[21]
I give up you have no idea what im talking about Issac so go away and play in your sand box will all your no longer existant e-friends Dapto |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.06.20 13:22:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 20/06/2009 13:23:30
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 20/06/2009 06:30:24 Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 20/06/2009 06:28:50 Should have been more specific. You now want CCP to separate their database into two sections. (Or maybe even two different servers). You realize you just doubled CCP's workload. Doesn't matter if its small or huge. You double it with your idea. And quite frankly, CCP doesn't need more work than it already has. Its trying to reduce this.
Also, what if that character comes back? Now they have to wait for CCP to unarchive them? Great, that just increased their workload there. Whereas right now, there is very little, if any, work that needs to be done to "unfreeze" a character.
Its not going to happen. Right now, how things are, is just fine and balanced. Your idea just adds more work for YOUR convenience. Which in all honesty, is not saving you much "time".
"I also wouldn't expect the "resurection" requests to come up very often, as usually, if a character hasn't logged on in over a year, he probably won't come back."
BS. Do you honestly know how this goes? Only CCP does. I quit WoW for a year and then returned. (Quit again) I'm pretty sure if little old me does it in that game, that there is a lot more requests than you think in this game. I even know ppl that have returned after a year they were gone in this game. Why should they be left out?
Get my point? Its a lot of work, for a lot of nothing for really no reason at all except for a minor complaint/issue. CCP has a lot more things that take much higher priority than this.
--Isaac
Have you ever administered a database system? Cause I have, and still do as part of my job as a PHP/MySQL programmer, automation script programmer and database administrator. I do know what I'm talking about. All of this proccess would be automated. Do you you really think that the CCP dba's would manually run queries to move characters back and forth between the archive and the live db? Do you even know how database administration works? They would have scripts and automated systems to do the work for them, so this wouldn't add to any of their workload except for the development of it the first time. We're talking here about less than 1 month of work depending on the amount of resources they can allocate to this, but that month would be worth it afterwards. I know this for a fact.
To be honest I don't care about knowing if a character is active or not, I just thought cleaning up the live database would help its performance and that archiving the old characters would be a good idea and help the admins manage updates and patches better.
Think of it this way. If you have to modify a database table that has over 4 million records (for example, adding a new field or something like that), the database engine will need to update every single record with that modification. 4 Million records would take a huge amount of time to update. Same goes with backups and optimization (compacting and indexing). Now let's say that in those 4 millioon records, 2.5 millions would be inactive characters that could be moved to the archive database. You would just cut the time it takes to update and maintain the db by half, which could be significant!
So please, if you don't know what you're talking about, refrain from commenting as if you did know. |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.06.20 17:14:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 20/06/2009 17:15:37 I heard what you guys are saying, its what I'm saying that your not listening to.
A: Your creating a need to put CCP's resources into an idea that quite frankly, is a waste of time. If it wasn't, why don't more MMO companies do it?
B: Your entire idea is based on the fact that your not sure if they are active or not. Here is an easy solution: Send them an evemail and ask if they are active. Keep them in your address book for a while and if they finally respond, then you know they are active. Wow, shocking, I just figured out an already-in-the-game mechanic that requires no resources to implement.
Also, don't you think CCP would have implemented this idea if they thought it would reduce their databases' load?
Your idea is just to make your life easier. Not CCP's.
--Isaac
P.S. Thanks for the personal attack. Its always appreciated. Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.06.20 19:31:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 20/06/2009 19:31:41
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar useless I know better than you dribble
Oh so you built the Database that CCP currently employs?
Wow... I guess you know everything! ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM! |
Tempest Inferno
Davy Jones Locker Enforcers of Serenity
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Posted - 2009.06.20 19:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 20/06/2009 06:30:24 Also, what if that character comes back? Now they have to wait for CCP to unarchive them? Great, that just increased their workload there. Whereas right now, there is very little, if any, work that needs to be done to "unfreeze" a character. --Isaac
Please think before you post. A simple script can be programed to run at account reactivation to pull the characters from the archive server to the main server. If a player has been dormant for over a year they probably have a lot of patching to do or a full client download so what little time it would take to copy and validate the account would be covered by that. If not simply have the resubscribe page say "Your account is being moved out of archive. This may take up to X min / hrs" The main servers would be cleared up some and an archive server would be alot easier to maintain since the data doesn't get changed much.
Also I agree that CCP should look through the database for trial accounts that were never activated after their 2 weeks was up. These accounts should be deleated. |
Xailz
Godless Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.21 11:07:00 -
[26]
If CCP were to change the way the address book works and organises contacts they could have it as if you're on their buddy list you can see information such as this otherwise I wouldn't support this
This would mean making the address book have sections to put war targets (since this is all I use my Address book for and I suspect many others)
As for old Characters I too see little chance of chars from back in 03 coming back to eve (or even remembering their passwords) but I don't think they will ever remove them
Xz |
Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.06.21 22:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto All directors of a corp can see last login/logout of corp members, so the "Over a month" thing isn't a big deal. How you use your buddylist for intel is your business, I don't see why any rules changes are needed there.
And this is another STASI thing that has go away. TMI with no reasonably need to know. I don't really care what resolution it gives out (hours, days, weeks, months), it should not be there. In WoW sh*t like that does not matter. Here it does.
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Dapto
Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.22 03:13:00 -
[28]
Ariane you say it dont matter well obviously you have never run a corp/alliance in 0.0. Well i'd like to tell yo it does matter whether your a renter or non renter you still have to contribute to the e-peen collective fund and paying for inactive accounts is not something I like to or do pay for. But however it's has happened to me several times after a the timer goes to over month ive kicked people only to find later that as it happens to us all that a rl event has occured and they wernt even able to log in for a few months even though there accounts were still active. Dapto |
Grez
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.06.22 16:29:00 -
[29]
Inactive characters don't do anything but take up database space, which means nothing to the database. There would be no point in deleting them (in fact, it would produce more load). Separating them would just be complicated. --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.06.22 17:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Grez Inactive characters don't do anything but take up database space, which means nothing to the database. There would be no point in deleting them (in fact, it would produce more load). Separating them would just be complicated.
That is completely wrong.
Sorting, indexing, optimizing and backuping a table that has 4 million records versus one that has only 2 will take much less time. It would also take less time to search that table and thus reduce the CPU load of the SQL server indirectly.
The advantage of this change wouldn't be as much for the players than it would be for the db admins.
Please stop saying stuff like that when you don't have a clue when you're talking about. |
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