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Soveriegnty and bubbles are why people dont go to 0.0

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Ghoest	Posted - 2009.06.19 16:38:00 - [1] So stop wondering why people stay in high sec.(low sec is really really empty because its not profitable.) And why much of 0.0 is empty. The whole point of sovereignty and bubbles are to keep people out of a space. Yes it doesnt keep the more aggressive players out but it actually succeeds wonderfully against the majority of players not in a major alliance. If they just want a fight anyone has a reasonably good chance of getting that in 0.0 But only a small handful of people can make it in 0.0 unless they are in blue space. This isnt really a bad or a good thing its just the way it is.
Holy Lowlander Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.06.19 16:43:00 - [2] yup you are totally right there \o/

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.06.19 16:52:00 - [3] wooohooo nullifier subsystem are win. But I don't got to 0.0 beacuse I need to get new pants every time and laundry sucks.

Vidi Angelus Caldari Crystal Dynamics Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.06.19 16:53:00 - [4] Edited by: Vidi Angelus on 19/06/2009 16:53:24 Sov Sucks, I'll agree completely there. But bubbles? Don't be daft. If bubbles didn't exist I'd leave 0.0 right now.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.06.19 16:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Chribba wooohooo nullifier subsystem are win. But I don't got to 0.0 beacuse I need to get new pants every time and laundry sucks. Just don't wear pants. They're overrated anyway.
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.06.19 16:56:00 - [6] too much NBSI not enough NRDS
Bestofworst Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.19 16:57:00 - [7] ^^ very true. But people need to learn to scan and avoid drag bubbles.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:02:00 - [8] I typically only see bubbles once I'm already in 0.0.. I never see them on the way in, but once you are there it seems they are so lonely they want you to stay.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Vidi Angelus Edited by: Vidi Angelus on 19/06/2009 16:53:24 Sov Sucks, I'll agree completely there. But bubbles? Don't be daft. If bubbles didn't exist I'd leave 0.0 right now. UMM. Where did I say bubbles "suck"(or for that matter sovereignty.) Bubbles are essentially a gatekeeper tool. Gatekeepers keep people out of the gated area.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:04:00 - [10] Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2009 17:05:34 Originally by: Vidi Angelus But bubbles? Don't be daft. If bubbles didn't exist I'd leave 0.0 right now. Words of a true null sec warrior.. No need for tactics or fitting ships to capture the other guy with sensor boosters, using real skill and so on.. Sitting on gates all day with bubbles.. yes bubbles is the only way to play..
Etien Aldragoran DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:07:00 - [11] I'm sorry, but your argument fails. There are NPC regions in 0.0 which are completely removed from the sovereignty claims of alliances. And bubbles aren't meant to keep people out, they're meant to keep people in.
Hoo Is	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Etien Aldragoran I'm sorry, but your argument fails. There are NPC regions in 0.0 which are completely removed from the sovereignty claims of alliances. And bubbles aren't meant to keep people out, they're meant to keep people in. Goonie... this is GD not CAOD, I think you are lost
Sloth Arnini Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Sloth Arnini on 19/06/2009 17:10:37 Originally by: Mutnin Words of a true null sec warrior.. No need for tactics or fitting ships to capture the other guy with sensor boosters, using real skill and so on.. Sitting on gates all day with bubbles.. yes bubbles is the only way to play.. Quiet you. You have no idea how hard it is to resist the subliminal mind control messages contained in bubble visual effects. THAT is the true test of an EVE PVPer, not catching stabbed up covops in Rancer.
Sir Muffoon Backdoor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Hoo Is Originally by: Etien Aldragoran I'm sorry, but your argument fails. There are NPC regions in 0.0 which are completely removed from the sovereignty claims of alliances. And bubbles aren't meant to keep people out, they're meant to keep people in. Goonie... this is GD not CAOD, I think you are lost Keeping up the standard of GD I see.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:12:00 - [15] The Goonies was a good movie.

Xianbei	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:23:00 - [16] SOV should be moved away from alliances and be a function of CORPs only alliances should be a "loose" affiliation of corps, not the all powerful entities they are now this would break up the power blocks somewhat and make 0.0 more accessible to everyone alliances and titans need to be nerfed
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Etien Aldragoran I'm sorry, but your argument fails. There are NPC regions in 0.0 which are completely removed from the sovereignty claims of alliances. And bubbles aren't meant to keep people out, they're meant to keep people in. NO 1 NPC regions have a much greater variety of people in them than sovereign 0.0 Especially they have more loners and small groups. 2 NPC regions do have bubbles. 3 Bubbles keep people out by sitting them on the other side of gates - duh. Also no one would want to be trapped.(seriously the "keep people in" response was pretty stupid - you should be ashamed.)
Bestofworst Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Etien Aldragoran I'm sorry, but your argument fails. There are NPC regions in 0.0 which are completely removed from the sovereignty claims of alliances. And bubbles aren't meant to keep people out, they're meant to keep people in. NO 1 NPC regions have a much greater variety of people in them than sovereign 0.0 Especially they have more loners and small groups. 2 NPC regions do have bubbles. 3 Bubbles keep people out by sitting them on the other side of gates - duh. Also no one would want to be trapped.(seriously the "keep people in" response was pretty stupid - you should be ashamed.) If you plan on living in 0.0, you can make Tactical bookmarks, use them. you have an onboard scanner, use it. You can fit a MWD, use it. Stop being so terrible about bubbles, there are ways to avoid and deal with it and you just arn't trying. ---- My Music
Spurty Caldari Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:48:00 - [19] Edited by: Spurty on 19/06/2009 17:48:24 Originally by: Chribba But I don't got to 0.0 beacuse I need to get new pants every time and laundry sucks. Instead of licking and sucking your laundry, try a washing machine. amidoingitrite? Low Sec isn't as 'unpopulated' as people think/say. Bad things lurk there.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Bestofworst Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Etien Aldragoran I'm sorry, but your argument fails. There are NPC regions in 0.0 which are completely removed from the sovereignty claims of alliances. And bubbles aren't meant to keep people out, they're meant to keep people in. NO 1 NPC regions have a much greater variety of people in them than sovereign 0.0 Especially they have more loners and small groups. 2 NPC regions do have bubbles. 3 Bubbles keep people out by sitting them on the other side of gates - duh. Also no one would want to be trapped.(seriously the "keep people in" response was pretty stupid - you should be ashamed.) If you plan on living in 0.0, you can make Tactical bookmarks, use them. you have an onboard scanner, use it. You can fit a MWD, use it. Stop being so terrible about bubbles, there are ways to avoid and deal with it and you just arn't trying. Ummmmm. How am I being terrible? Im stating the truth bubbles make it much harder to mess around in 0.0 if you arent blue(or on a fleet op). This is just an obvious fact. This isnt rocket science - its why bubbles exist - to make it easier to catch and kill people trying to go through 0.0 gates.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:51:00 - [21] omg 0.0 sucks, i lost my ship due to a 200 man gate camp theres lag. I got ganked!! wahhhhhhh....... stop your whining op. seriously. 0.0 means free for #@%@#%$#@ all. There is 0.0 npc space which you can go hang out in and make money, but you still have to deal with roaming gangs, and the occasional, 1 cyno 200 caps surrounding it. Also if you think low sec isnt profitable, you are doing it wrong.
Dragon Greg	Posted - 2009.06.19 17:58:00 - [22] 0.0 is endgame content. That kinda goes hand in hand with effort. Sovereignty isn't the problem. The problem with sovereignty is the mechanisms that were designed with a much more limited scope in mind then what we use and abuse it for. Ever seen CCP force us to spam 80 moons in a system? No, we do this kind of stuff all to ourselves. The mechanisms need to provide more flexibility, and more entry points to mess around with them, but they also need upper limits. We always take the easy way out tbh.
Holy Lowlander Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.06.19 18:08:00 - [23] so what you basically want is to have happy hello kitty life in 0.0 ? in other words ,, what is the point you are trying to make ?
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.06.19 18:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Mutnin Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2009 17:05:34 Originally by: Vidi Angelus But bubbles? Don't be daft. If bubbles didn't exist I'd leave 0.0 right now. Words of a true null sec warrior.. No need for tactics or fitting ships to capture the other guy with sensor boosters, using real skill and so on.. Sitting on gates all day with bubbles.. yes bubbles is the only way to play.. If they made it so quad remote sensor boosted HIC's could catch pods and shuttles then you'd have an argument. Right now with scan res over 2000 you can't catch a shuttle/pod on a gate. When you destroy a ship - you can't catch a pod that is spamming warp after ship destruction.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.06.19 18:15:00 - [25] LOLz at the responses calling this a whine. All Im stating how the game works and how people respond to it. No one is seriously challenging me that. My point is to demonstrate that you cant have it both ways. 1 Alliances want security - that is reasonable. 2 Security primarily involves keeping people out and that is why most non-alliance people stay out of 0.0 most of the time.
Dragon Greg	Posted - 2009.06.19 18:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Ghoest LOLz at the responses calling this a whine. All Im stating how the game works and how people respond to it. No one is seriously challenging me that. My point is to demonstrate that you cant have it both ways. 1 Alliances want security - that is reasonable. 2 Security primarily involves keeping people out and that is why most non-alliance people stay out of 0.0 most of the time. It's just that most of us can't take what you said seriously as it is so godawully similar to a troll post. EVE is tough. Often game mechanics are unbalanced, some favour one view and some the other. Deal with it. It's like dealing with a petition ...
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.06.19 18:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Chribba The Goonies was a good movie. The 'not ghost festival' sig made my day.
Decimo DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2009.06.19 20:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Mutnin Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2009 17:05:34 Originally by: Vidi Angelus But bubbles? Don't be daft. If bubbles didn't exist I'd leave 0.0 right now. Words of a true null sec warrior.. No need for tactics or fitting ships to capture the other guy with sensor boosters, using real skill and so on.. Sitting on gates all day with bubbles.. yes bubbles is the only way to play.. If they made it so quad remote sensor boosted HIC's could catch pods and shuttles then you'd have an argument. Right now with scan res over 2000 you can't catch a shuttle/pod on a gate. When you destroy a ship - you can't catch a pod that is spamming warp after ship destruction. Indeed. As it stands right now, with scan res of 2800 you can't catch shuttles, pods, or any type of cloaking ship (unless they totally blow it).
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.06.19 20:35:00 - [29] Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2009 20:40:26 Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Mutnin Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2009 17:05:34 Originally by: Vidi Angelus But bubbles? Don't be daft. If bubbles didn't exist I'd leave 0.0 right now. Words of a true null sec warrior.. No need for tactics or fitting ships to capture the other guy with sensor boosters, using real skill and so on.. Sitting on gates all day with bubbles.. yes bubbles is the only way to play.. Right now with scan res over 2000 you can't catch a shuttle/pod on a gate. When you destroy a ship - you can't catch a pod that is spamming warp after ship destruction. If they made it so quad remote sensor boosted HIC's could catch pods and shuttles then you'd have an argument. humm here is a novel idea.. have someone in your gang fly a ceptor. It's what all the cool kids in low sec do these days, and we catch pleanty of pods. Just because everyone in your gang "can" fly a HIC, doesn't mean the gang "needs" everyone in one. Bubbles = Lazy PVP /thread
rodensteiner	Posted - 2009.06.19 20:43:00 - [30] Have to say, since the corp I'm in moved to 0.0 something like 8-10 months ago, I haven't left. Granted, I leave 0.0 on the occasion to pick up ships or fittings, but other than that, I haven't had a reason to leave. Also, once you've been in a certain area for a while, you start to know where you can expect camps and bubbles.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.19 20:45:00 - [31] funny, soveriegnty (sic) and bubbles are the main reasons why i go to 0.0 that and the better exploration results. and no gate guns.
Cruentiorus Detroit Metal Works	Posted - 2009.06.19 20:49:00 - [32] I think a start should be to eliminate anchorable bubbles period. With the advent of a mobile bubble machine (HICs) and the already underused dictors of old there is no need for a bubble that can be sat at a gate while a sole sniper fit HAC can control a whole entry point. My next step would be SOV... but that my friends involves my idea that you should have to skill to own systems, and the eliminations of alliances.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.19 20:54:00 - [33] Bubbles are fine. The ops main point is that many people avoid 0.0 space because the locals are, for the most part, extremely unwelcoming. The hostile local pilots use every tool available, including bubbles, to discourage visitors.
Joshua Calvert Caldari Safespot Industries	Posted - 2009.06.19 21:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Bubbles are fine. The ops main point is that many people avoid 0.0 space because the locals are, for the most part, extremely unwelcoming. The hostile local pilots use every tool available, including bubbles, to discourage visitors. They're protecting their ownership of space that isn't as profitable as empire space :P
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.06.19 21:23:00 - [35] Edited by: Ghoest on 19/06/2009 21:24:52 Actually 0.0 is profitable if you count the moon profit. Most of the grunts in 0.0 Alliances lose perspective on how the real money flows. Of course their are plenty of crappy alliances with no quality moons who also dont realize where the money is. And as Santiogo explained, EVE has given 0.0 alliances good tools for protecting their space(which is exactly what they want). My point was that is silly to suggest lures to get more people into 0.0 when its the security system working as intended that keeps them out. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Rally Against Evil	Posted - 2009.06.19 23:05:00 - [36] Originally by: Sun Clausewitz too much NBSI not enough NRDS Nope needs more NBSI, NRDS is dumb, if its not blue it shouldn't be there >:)
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.19 23:22:00 - [37] Originally by: Cruentiorus I think a start should be to eliminate anchorable bubbles period. With the advent of a mobile bubble machine (HICs) and the already underused dictors of old there is no need for a bubble that can be sat at a gate while a sole sniper fit HAC can control a whole entry point. My next step would be SOV... but that my friends involves my idea that you should have to skill to own systems, and the eliminations of alliances. If a sole sniper HAC can kill you before you clear the bubble you either need a faster ship or one with a half decent tank OR a ship that cloaks. Pretty much anything other than a t1 frig with no speed mods. One sniper HAC won't keep anyone out of an entry point if they put any effort into getting in. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.19 23:52:00 - [38] Quote: Sov Sucks, I'll agree completely there. I'm not sure why you completely agree... If sovereignty is bad, are you for getting rid of it? ...or are you for revamping it? Many people move to 0.0 specifically for rights to own and control territory (unlike those to choose to stay in concord controlled empire space). Keeping the masses at bay allows for many advantages... not the least of which is pristine asteroid belts or moons to mine. Sovereignty is only a tool by which you can control space.
StainLessStealRat Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.06.20 00:50:00 - [39] love these threads on 0.0, seems 90% of the people that comment have no idea. i have been in 0.0 90% of my eve time. I often run 20+ jumps through red space and make it out alive. 2 things i will mention the entry to a new region is allways through a giant of a gate that can only be bubbled by several LG bubbles that are not cheap and easy to pop. It is nearly impossible to catch anyone who uses the cloak MWD trick without a bubble (often a DIC or HIC is also not big enough) Every day i see neuts in fountain happy ratting away. how did they get there= Balls and brains. 0.0 has no rewards worth comming for Bahhhhhh leave providance/synd and you will find Riches beyond even any L4 mission runners dreams.(10/10 plex's Gass mining ABC roids officer & faction spawns and pirate missions too name but a few)
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.20 00:59:00 - [40] Originally by: StainLessStealRat love these threads on 0.0, seems 90% of the people that comment have no idea. i have been in 0.0 90% of my eve time. I often run 20+ jumps through red space and make it out alive. 2 things i will mention the entry to a new region is allways through a giant of a gate that can only be bubbled by several LG bubbles that are not cheap and easy to pop. It is nearly impossible to catch anyone who uses the cloak MWD trick without a bubble (often a DIC or HIC is also not big enough) Every day i see neuts in fountain happy ratting away. how did they get there= Balls and brains. 0.0 has no rewards worth comming for Bahhhhhh leave providance/synd and you will find Riches beyond even any L4 mission runners dreams.(10/10 plex's Gass mining ABC roids officer & faction spawns and pirate missions too name but a few) I agree with 90% of this post! ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.20 06:46:00 - [41] bubbles are meh, it has more to do with getting blobbed to hell and back, pos shooting, ratting giveing less income then level 4s in highsec, and veldspar being the most valuable ore in most systems.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.20 07:11:00 - [42] Per usual the OP is missing the point. The idea of bubbles and sov is that the 'owners' can defend their land meaning they can reap the rewards off that land, which means that owning land is profitable, which in TURN means there'll be lots of fights about control over these assets. If people wouldn't have means to defend their land they wouldn't build expensive infrastructure (stations etc) because the expense couldn't be justified considering the lack of defense. Yes, SOV has it's issues and needs to be reworked, but NOT with the OP's reasoning in mind. p.s. low sec is SO not worth it that there's poses everywhere and a young combat char can make a hefty income from ratting (have an alt doing it for fun, got surprised by how much he makes from low sec ratting).
Pnandor	Posted - 2009.06.20 10:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Chribba The Goonies was a good movie. True
Vidi Angelus Caldari Crystal Dynamics Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.06.20 10:59:00 - [44] Originally by: Barbara Nichole Quote: Sov Sucks, I'll agree completely there. I'm not sure why you completely agree... If sovereignty is bad, are you for getting rid of it? ...or are you for revamping it? Many people move to 0.0 specifically for rights to own and control territory (unlike those to choose to stay in concord controlled empire space). Keeping the masses at bay allows for many advantages... not the least of which is pristine asteroid belts or moons to mine. Sovereignty is only a tool by which you can control space. For Revamping it, Fighting for territory shouldn't be easy, but POS grind is painfully dull.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.06.20 18:08:00 - [45] Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 20/06/2009 18:08:33 ppl stay in hi sec because its so much easier to make isk there while listening to curzon dax surely its nice to have a noob island but at some point everyone should have reason to consider leaving it at least once in a while for greater profits, regardless of profession. It surely doesnt make sense that pirates got to kill each other for loot. In addition bubbles are fine but sovereiginty system sucks.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.06.20 19:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Dragon Greg 0.0 is endgame content. That kinda goes hand in hand with effort. Sovereignty isn't the problem. The problem with sovereignty is the mechanisms that were designed with a much more limited scope in mind then what we use and abuse it for. Ever seen CCP force us to spam 80 moons in a system? No, we do this kind of stuff all to ourselves. The mechanisms need to provide more flexibility, and more entry points to mess around with them, but they also need upper limits. We always take the easy way out tbh. 0.0 is end game content? Funny, because with over 50,000,000 skill points I couldn't want to stay farther from 0.0. Not only does being a cog in a giant (dare I stay stupid) 0.0 alliance sound awful... but I'm also not too fond of POS sieges, nor the good ole' primary, pop, primary, pop, primary... lag... lag... pop... lag... ctd... log back-in, oh look I'm in a station 40 jumps from the fight. You see, for a lot of us 0.0 just sucks donkey balls and end-game for us is small gang pvp in low-sec. That's what great about EVE. Its a giant sandbox and end game is what you want it to be. For some its 0.0 and for some it isn't. -Karlemgne My sig don't fracking work.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.20 20:28:00 - [47] Originally by: Mutnin Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2009 17:05:34 Originally by: Vidi Angelus But bubbles? Don't be daft. If bubbles didn't exist I'd leave 0.0 right now. Words of a true null sec warrior.. No need for tactics or fitting ships to capture the other guy with sensor boosters, using real skill and so on.. Sitting on gates all day with bubbles.. yes bubbles is the only way to play.. Don't warp directly from gate to gate. Sling bubble alignment is gnat's ass precise. Off by a few degrees, and they're useless. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.

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