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Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi there,
I was and is wondering what's up with that "bright" idea of stacking penalty? If i have 2 computers they both work at full capacity and not like stack to 1.2 or 0.4 of their full power.
Same everywhere else. Its not like 2 nuclear reactors "stack" up to 1.2 or whatever else number of their full capacity.
What's up with this nonsense and why everyone tolerates it. It simply does not makes any sense.
I think its time to remove this thing from the game. |

Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty |

Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
443
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Your first fail was drawing a comparison with real life.
Your second fail was not noticing that the stacking penalties actually provide a kind of in-built 'balancer' to the game.
And your third fail is actually a kind of success, as I have just noticed your corp name. Congratulations! |

Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty
So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily. |

Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gorki Andropov wrote:Your first fail was drawing a comparison with real life.
Your second fail was not noticing that the stacking penalties actually provide a kind of in-built 'balancer' to the game.
And your third fail is actually a kind of success, as I have just noticed your corp name. Congratulations!
Thanks :)
Still stacking does not makes sense. In any world. It's either on everything or on nothing. Why torpedo launchers dont have stacking? They use cpu. Why reactors have stacking? It's not comparison to real world. Its comparison to basic logic. |

Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.
you just want 90-100% resists too easily. NO.
EVE is hard mode. Even in hi sec (see Suicide Gankers/War Dec griefers, Shiny mission ship gankers, ninjas, incursion griefers). |

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
256
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
2 people will run a mile faster than 1 person and if we get 10,000 people we can build a house in about 2 minutes. |

Kaaeliaa
Ministry of War
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
It won't be going anywhere without a significant overhaul of the entire game.
Just as an example, an Apocalypse Navy Issue has 8 low slots. Fill them up with Imperial Navy Heat Sink modules. You now have +100% damage if there's no stacking penalty. That's why the stacking penalty exists; damage and resistances would be off the wall without it. |

Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kaaeliaa wrote:It won't be going anywhere without a significant overhaul of the entire game.
Just as an example, an Apocalypse Navy Issue has 8 low slots. Fill them up with Imperial Navy Heat Sink modules. You now have +100% damage if there's no stacking penalty. That's why the stacking penalty exists. Damage and resists would be off the wall without the penalty.
Thank you, quite clear explanation.
Also it fuels economy on destroyed items since to make the item effective you need to stack 2-3 items there. I wasn't actually referring to resists. More toward dampeners but resists argument also works.
CCP should come with overhaul or whatever else because "stacking" makes no sense and contradicts logic in so many cases in world of EVE and real world. |

TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression Hedonistic Imperative
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.
Two computers working side by side would indeed process the data twice as quick. But the computing power required is expenential. It's not that there's a penaltiy, it's more than getting 100% resist is insanely difficult. Going from 25% resist to 47% requires the computing power of one invuln but to get to 69% would take more than twice the processing power because the maths is more difficult.
Is that close enough to some kinda plauseable lore for you or do I have to say things like higsboson and mention then hiesnburge differential or some crap?
can you shut up and **** off now? |

Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
444
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Our ships fly in a space that's more akin to oil than vacuum, and you complain about this?! |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
469
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 09:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kaaeliaa wrote:It won't be going anywhere without a significant overhaul of the entire game.
Just as an example, an Apocalypse Navy Issue has 8 low slots. Fill them up with Imperial Navy Heat Sink modules. You now have +100% damage if there's no stacking penalty. That's why the stacking penalty exists. Damage and resists would be off the wall without the penalty. Actually, it would be, uh, 523%.
Alex Sinai wrote:This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily. Sounds to me like you should quit and find a more realistic video game. |

Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:Alex Sinai wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily. Two computers working side by side would indeed process the data twice as quick. But the computing power required is expenential. It's not that there's a penaltiy, it's more than getting 100% resist is insanely difficult. Going from 25% resist to 47% requires the computing power of one invuln but to get to 69% would take more than twice the processing power because the maths is more difficult. Is that close enough to some kinda plauseable lore for you or do I have to say things like higsboson and mention then hiesnburge differential or some crap? can you shut up and **** off now?
Can i ask just one question concerning it? Then why having two torpedo launchers not causing stacking? What about not possible to fit two Damage Controls? Or how about fitting 6 salvagers not causing "stacking" due to higher requirements of power and cpu? Stacking is a good excuse but bad solution.
Thank you for attempting to explain it within the lore but no thank you for being rude. |

Kaaeliaa
Ministry of War
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Son of a biscuit. I forgot they were multiplicative. Fortunately, it doesn't change my argument. |

Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:
So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.
2 completely separate computer sure does work at their full capacity. But engineer would be called moron if he puts 2 completely separate computer into an aircraft. usually you want some level of interoperability. Or at very least use the very same set of input and output devices (for the cost sake). And at that point you get "stacking penalty" in real aircraft as well. |

Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Kaaeliaa wrote:It won't be going anywhere without a significant overhaul of the entire game.
Just as an example, an Apocalypse Navy Issue has 8 low slots. Fill them up with Imperial Navy Heat Sink modules. You now have +100% damage if there's no stacking penalty. That's why the stacking penalty exists. Damage and resists would be off the wall without the penalty. Actually, it would be, uh, 523%. Alex Sinai wrote:This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily. Sounds to me like you should quit and find a more realistic video game.
I will think about quitting right after you quit dear and please dont forget to contract your stuff to me while door hits you in the ***. |

Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
122
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
So with that logic if I put two engines in my car in theory that should give it 2x the speed, strangely this doesn't happen.
Or if I put 2 barrels in my gun I can kill two people with one shot ? No that didn't work either; Oh darn it looks like adding 1 + 1 isn't always 2 in RL.  |

Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Shpenat wrote:Alex Sinai wrote:
So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.
2 completely separate computer sure does work at their full capacity. But engineer would be called moron if he puts 2 completely separate computer into an aircraft. usually you want some level of interoperability. Or at very least use the very same set of input and output devices (for the cost sake). And at that point you get "stacking penalty" in real aircraft as well.
Surprise. Boeing uses 5 to 7 completely separate backup systems that backs each other in case of fault and no they dont have any "stacking" penalties. |

Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Baneken wrote:So with that logic if I put two engines in my car in theory that should give it 2x the speed, strangely this doesn't happen. Or if I put 2 barrels in my gun I can kill two people with one shot ? No that didn't work either; Oh darn it looks like adding 1 + 1 isn't always 2 in RL. 
If you put two barrels you get twice the firepower. If you add two engines you spend twice on fuels. Depends on point of view. :p |

Kaaeliaa
Ministry of War
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
I feel bad now, because I totally responded to what is now becoming an obvious troll thread. |

Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
I already got the answer kindly provided by Kaaeliaa and thanks very much to her for excellent explanation.
But still i think that CCP should come with more logical stuff then "stacking" that makes so low sense in logic. It's plausible but that is exactly it. Just plausible not sound. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
470
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Surprise. Boeing uses 5 to 7 completely separate backup systems that backs each other in case of fault and no they dont have any "stacking" penalties. 8/10 |

Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Posting in a troll thread. |

Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Shpenat wrote:Alex Sinai wrote:
So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.
2 completely separate computer sure does work at their full capacity. But engineer would be called moron if he puts 2 completely separate computer into an aircraft. usually you want some level of interoperability. Or at very least use the very same set of input and output devices (for the cost sake). And at that point you get "stacking penalty" in real aircraft as well. Surprise. Boeing uses 5 to 7 completely separate backup systems that backs each other in case of fault and no they dont have any "stacking" penalties.
actually, backup system are example of stacking penalty. most of the time, there is no benefit from that much safety. |

Alex Sinai
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jagga Spikes wrote:Alex Sinai wrote:Shpenat wrote:Alex Sinai wrote:
So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.
2 completely separate computer sure does work at their full capacity. But engineer would be called moron if he puts 2 completely separate computer into an aircraft. usually you want some level of interoperability. Or at very least use the very same set of input and output devices (for the cost sake). And at that point you get "stacking penalty" in real aircraft as well. Surprise. Boeing uses 5 to 7 completely separate backup systems that backs each other in case of fault and no they dont have any "stacking" penalties. actually, backup system are example of stacking penalty. most of the time, there is no benefit from that much safety.
If there wouldn't they would put 1 more system. Not 5. |

TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression Hedonistic Imperative
166
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:TheBlueMonkey wrote:Alex Sinai wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily. Two computers working side by side would indeed process the data twice as quick. But the computing power required is expenential. It's not that there's a penaltiy, it's more than getting 100% resist is insanely difficult. Going from 25% resist to 47% requires the computing power of one invuln but to get to 69% would take more than twice the processing power because the maths is more difficult. Is that close enough to some kinda plauseable lore for you or do I have to say things like higsboson and mention then hiesnburge differential or some crap? can you shut up and **** off now? Can i ask just one question concerning it? Then why having two torpedo launchers not causing stacking? What about not possible to fit two Damage Controls? Or how about fitting 6 salvagers not causing "stacking" due to higher requirements of power and cpu? Stacking is a good excuse but bad solution. Thank you for attempting to explain it within the lore but no thank you for being rude.
Monkey rude, deal with it.
Torpedo launchers are self contained units as are salvagers so although the command from the bridge is "fire" each individual unit is self contained and tracks\launches\salvages on it's own but as a group "note weapon grouping". Each gun is working on a seperate problem to the same standard, or working in parallel. This allows for guns to be destroyed and the others not be effected.
As for a damage contol, it's a central system that monitors all systems. Multiple damage controls would be detrimental as it would cause them to "fight" each other for control of systems and most likely result in jetisning morons into the cold harsh vacume of monkies heart... I mean space.
|

Generals4
Caldari State
724
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Jagga Spikes wrote:Alex Sinai wrote:Shpenat wrote:Alex Sinai wrote:
So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.
2 completely separate computer sure does work at their full capacity. But engineer would be called moron if he puts 2 completely separate computer into an aircraft. usually you want some level of interoperability. Or at very least use the very same set of input and output devices (for the cost sake). And at that point you get "stacking penalty" in real aircraft as well. Surprise. Boeing uses 5 to 7 completely separate backup systems that backs each other in case of fault and no they dont have any "stacking" penalties. actually, backup system are example of stacking penalty. most of the time, there is no benefit from that much safety. If there wouldn't they would put 1 more system. Not 5.
Euhm, you sure have little knowledge about this kind of stuff. Why they use 5 is because even though there is a stacking penalty something going wrong can cause so much damage it's better to be 99.9999% sure rather than 99.999%
And you may wonder how the stacking penalty works, well it's simple. Lets say the systems have 10% chance to fail, if you add a backup the chances for everything to fail (main+backup) are 1%, so you gain 9% safety. Now add an other back up system and your chances are reduced to 0.1% which is only a gain of 0.9% safety, etc. That's stacking penalty right there -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |

Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
ITS REAL TO ME, DAMMIT. |

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
483
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
One woman can give birth to one child in nine months. Nine women can give birth to nine children in nine months. By that logic, nine women should be able to give birth to one child in a single month.
EVE is a game first, a simulation second. The stacking penalties are there for game balance reasons. Don't look for an in-depth roleplay / physical / technological explanation behind them, there is none. |

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
879
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:it's so you can't get OMG UBER stats from stacking invul/other hardeners on top of each other. SEriously, you'd get 90-100% (EM :P ) resists FAR too easily with 4 Invuls if you trashed the stacking penalty So i can't get two separate computers work on same aircraft at their full capacity because of? Because you know two separate computers work at their full capacity on aircrafts and also everywhere else without any "stacking penalty". This thing is too far beyond logic and breaks immersion heavily.
If you have two computers solving the same problem, you do not solve the problem in half the time. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
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