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Securitas Protector Final Conflict UK Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.22 09:58:00 - [1] Before I begin, I'd like everyone to understand that I do have a bit of experience, as I am a blackops FC...so not wild conjecture here. A few things that makes bombers very effective for their size and cost: -6-8 Torp bombers can take out a small pos in 1-2 hours and a medium in 2-3. --With guns? Yes if they are in a single clump and non-faction. Excellent for marauding enemy space -Bombs, while seemingly limited in scope, can have a DRASTIC effect on fleet battles. Reason I say this: I'm on vacation, and while I was gone, my blackops team got 56(yes, FIFTY SIX) kills in one fell blow as an enemy hotdrop failed rather magnificently. This and the fact that they can move cloaked, do a lot of damage, and often come with EWAR, makes the bomber often underestimated. They aren't exactly overpowered because if you manage to tackle one, it's as good as dead, but... just saying. Thanks, Sec
Ash Bringer	Posted - 2009.06.22 10:14:00 - [2] ofc they are FOTM. In groups they are DEADLY. Can kill 100 men BS fleets or make them runaway + kill Poses (btw in groups is not a 60 men gang but 12 or so SB to agress 100men BS fleet). But again, they are cheap so probably anyone can afford 1 Every race have nearly same SBs. (Perfect racial balance :P) They are annoying but when pointed dead Solo (can camp JBs) but you should have patience of an u-boat captain or fail at solo roaming :P Tbh cloak warping might be a little too much. As no one is using covops for scouting nowadays. And because it makes stratagically repositioning very very easy. But then again everybody can fly one so its a balanced FOTM.(and probably it will stay that way if not changed)
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.06.22 10:23:00 - [3] Unless you're shoehorning an expanded probe launcher on your Bomber, it's not replacing covops for scouting. Unless, I suppose, your idea of "scouting" is "look at local".
Reynaldo	Posted - 2009.06.22 12:07:00 - [4] Yeah, the new and improved bombers are fun to fly. I would like feedback on this cap-stable setup on my Hound that seems to work; 2x BCU II's 1x Co-Processor II 1x Catalyzed Cold Gas Arc-jet Thruster (mwd) 1x Phased Weapon Nav Generation Extron (painter) 1x Cap Recharger II 1x Covert Ops Cloak II 3x Arbalest Seige Launchers 1x Bomb Launcher Hydraulic Bay Thruster I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I The PWNAGE is for gang work and I can switch it to a Warp Disruptor for solo. I need to tweak some skills for power and cap, but overall it flies fine and stable. What do you think of it?
Brutus Proqqus	Posted - 2009.06.22 12:18:00 - [5] Originally by: Reynaldo Yeah, the new and improved bombers are fun to fly. I would like feedback on this cap-stable setup on my Hound that seems to work; 2x BCU II's 1x Co-Processor II 1x Catalyzed Cold Gas Arc-jet Thruster (mwd) 1x Phased Weapon Nav Generation Extron (painter) 1x Cap Recharger II 1x Covert Ops Cloak II 3x Arbalest Seige Launchers 1x Bomb Launcher Hydraulic Bay Thruster I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I The PWNAGE is for gang work and I can switch it to a Warp Disruptor for solo. I need to tweak some skills for power and cap, but overall it flies fine and stable. What do you think of it? i use something like this for camps: [Purifier, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Inertia Stabilizers II Medium Shield Extender II Sensor Booster II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] I havent checked on rigs yet
Reynaldo	Posted - 2009.06.22 12:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Brutus Proqqus Originally by: Reynaldo Yeah, the new and improved bombers are fun to fly. I would like feedback on this cap-stable setup on my Hound that seems to work; 2x BCU II's 1x Co-Processor II 1x Catalyzed Cold Gas Arc-jet Thruster (mwd) 1x Phased Weapon Nav Generation Extron (painter) 1x Cap Recharger II 1x Covert Ops Cloak II 3x Arbalest Seige Launchers 1x Bomb Launcher Hydraulic Bay Thruster I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I The PWNAGE is for gang work and I can switch it to a Warp Disruptor for solo. I need to tweak some skills for power and cap, but overall it flies fine and stable. What do you think of it? i use something like this for camps: [Purifier, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Inertia Stabilizers II Medium Shield Extender II Sensor Booster II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] I havent checked on rigs yet I tried out a nanofiber internal structure on the Hound, but it didn't give me enough of a speed/agility boost to make much of a difference. I'm going to cross-train to a Purifier soon and will think about your setup. Thanks.
Rordan D'Kherr Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.22 13:38:00 - [7] nerf bombers?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.22 13:48:00 - [8] My experience of being bombed by ED/IRC is that they can be effective if deployed correctly, but very often they are little more than a nuisance - and there is a great risk of losing the bomber. you need multiple bombers and you need the correct targets, and you need the co-ordination to deploy effectively. A solo bomber launching a bomb off at a battleship blob will accomplish nothing.
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp.	Posted - 2009.06.22 15:16:00 - [9] CCP gave all those who trained missiles up a huge cookie. Also, this particular cookie has no tank so all of us F1 - F7 missile spammers now have to learn to fly. At what point are we at tho? SB blob as FOTM, rarity, giggles, or trend
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.22 15:43:00 - [10] lol why do you need a cap stable fit. You are not flying it right if you need to be able to run your fit for multiple minutes at a time.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Marcus Druallis lol why do you need a cap stable fit. You are not flying it right if you need to be able to run your fit for multiple minutes at a time. maybe to be able to solo in bomber?
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp.	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Marcus Druallis lol why do you need a cap stable fit. maybe to be able to solo in bomber? I can get my dog to walk on his hind legs. It's a circus trick. ANY pilot can pop you if you are tackled. If you are not already aligned you might not survive warrior IIs even if you start to warp as soon as your shields are touched. The SB, the new WTFSOLOPWNMOBILE!
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:39:00 - [13] God I hope the bomber fad continues as personally I have endless dreams about dropping my 'sader into a bomber wing and the happy carnage that would then ensue.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:43:00 - [14] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 22/06/2009 18:44:47 Originally by: AnKahn Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Marcus Druallis lol why do you need a cap stable fit. maybe to be able to solo in bomber? I can get my dog to walk on his hind legs. It's a circus trick. ANY pilot can pop you if you are tackled. If you are not already aligned you might not survive warrior IIs even if you start to warp as soon as your shields are touched. The SB, the new WTFSOLOPWNMOBILE! http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3511077 http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3540383 phoon escaped me on 20% hull (i was orbitting at 23km, way too close to edge of scram). he had full set of valks t2 on me but they dont do much. So yeah bombers rock for solo. And i can hold warriors t2 for a bit before they eat thru shields. And tbh its harder to actually catch targets (viva NPCing bots and macro ravens who log as soon as you enter local) than kill them. Just select proper bomber for your targets. Originally by: Stuart Price God I hope the bomber fad continues as personally I have endless dreams about dropping my 'sader into a bomber wing and the happy carnage that would then ensue. Yeh ceptors are annoying. Thats why its worth to have rapier+ razu (or 2) with you.
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp.	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:26:00 - [15] Deva, I really like the new SB. I realize that a good pilot can beat a bad pilot in one. That goes for about any pair of ships. Maybe not a Caracal Vs. a Carrier. But really, if the OMG I can solo in a SB stuff becomes a TREND, then they will nerf the poor little ships back to uselessness. All I'm saying.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:38:00 - [16] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 22/06/2009 20:44:44 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 22/06/2009 20:41:26 It wont become trend because there are too many "what ifs" situations. All they can do is kill NPCers (if you bring correct damage type) and crap fit ships. Also bomber gangs are actually easy to kill if you bring proper counters. Sniper hacs, ceptors spell doom for bombers. So yeh, they are good actually very good (and FUN to fly). But far from FOTM. EDIT: but back to quotes above etc. If you go for MWD+disruptor fit you need cap recharge to sustain it. From what i've seen one guy even used injector (no extender) to keep his bomber going when soloing NPCers. I prefer AB myself + MSE (thats how i tanked valks, still have to try vs warriors but i guess its only 30 seconds of play and i need to GTFO). Also AB speed is a bit "meh" for me - even with gistii and 2x aux rigs it barely reaches 1-1,1km/s :( EDIT2: also i forgot to congratulate OP. I read about that bomber move on SHC and it was nicely executed. Bombers are PROPER blob breaking tool (id only change one thing: increase bomb HP so you can launch 10 or so of them) - and IMO they should have this role instead of titans. Btw, did you come up how to use em as a wing after fight with us? Coz back then you were still throwing bombs at us one at a time :X
Valadeya uthanaras Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.06.23 05:06:00 - [17] Edited by: Valadeya uthanaras on 23/06/2009 05:06:58 Originally by: Deva Blackfire EDIT: but back to quotes above etc. If you go for MWD+disruptor fit you need cap recharge to sustain it. From what i've seen one guy even used injector (no extender) to keep his bomber going when soloing NPCers. I prefer AB myself + MSE (thats how i tanked valks, still have to try vs warriors but i guess its only 30 seconds of play and i need to GTFO). Also AB speed is a bit "meh" for me - even with gistii and 2x aux rigs it barely reaches 1-1,1km/s :( that person would probably be me, and as for soloing , I killed so much in my purifier I started to faction fit it a bit (relativly cheap faction mods) I use mwd/injector/point fit on mine painter are not as usefull as so many people think if you desagree ... or want to see my list ok kills: http://puppetmasters.rowejob.com/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=10057 Look at my loss for fit
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2009.06.23 05:23:00 - [18] Originally by: AnKahn CCP gave all those who trained missiles up a huge cookie. Also, this particular cookie has no tank so all of us F1 - F7 missile spammers now have to learn to fly. At what point are we at tho? SB blob as FOTM, rarity, giggles, or trend I like this post
Warrio GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.06.23 06:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Securitas Protector I am a blackops FC... Wow, a real life blackops FC. Can I touch you?
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2009.06.23 07:25:00 - [20] Originally by: Warrio Originally by: Securitas Protector I am a blackops FC... Wow, a real life blackops FC. Can I touch you? If he rejects you, give me a call. I'm no black ops FC but I'll show you where you can sneak around.
Dan Glebitts	Posted - 2009.06.23 08:55:00 - [21] People solo in SB's now? Anyone BS pilot who dies to a solo SB must... MUST be asleep. There is no way in hell a SB can withstand a swarm of Warrior II's for any length of time. If they aren't asleep they must not have light's in there bay... and if they are going into low sec without lights then they deserve every ounce of regret they feel when there ship goes pop. An SB is no more a solopwnmobile than a dreadnought I've popped a fair few have a go heroes thinking they could solo or evade my guns. It's a crime to fly a SB without a Target Painter. Just because they fire torps doesnt mean they are doing there full damage against a BS sized ship and gives you more pain to dish out against BC's. Soloing in SB's is a suicide run and should only be attempted if you know your target has had the pleasure of recent lobotomy.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.23 09:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Dan Glebitts People solo in SB's now? Anyone BS pilot who dies to a solo SB must... MUST be asleep. There is no way in hell a SB can withstand a swarm of Warrior II's for any length of time. Or lowskilled. Or engaged by NPCs. Or using wrong tank type (EM vs 0 em resist ravens anyone?). Quote: It's a crime to fly a SB without a Target Painter. Just because they fire torps doesnt mean they are doing there full damage against a BS sized ship and gives you more pain to dish out against BC's. I dont remember TP on any of my SB setups. 400dps or 350, who cares. Still enough to overcome most setups out there. Quote: Soloing in SB's is a suicide run and should only be attempted if you know your target has had the pleasure of recent lobotomy. Or if you know you can take out target before he takes out you. Cerbs are really nice targets because their lol-missiles barely scratch ABing frigates.
Dan Glebitts	Posted - 2009.06.23 09:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Dan Glebitts People solo in SB's now? Anyone BS pilot who dies to a solo SB must... MUST be asleep. There is no way in hell a SB can withstand a swarm of Warrior II's for any length of time. Or lowskilled. Or engaged by NPCs. Or using wrong tank type (EM vs 0 em resist ravens anyone?). Warrior II's will still kill you long before you can kill them. Of course if the pilot is completely hopeless you'll win but the odds are against you or should be. Quote: It's a crime to fly a SB without a Target Painter. Just because they fire torps doesnt mean they are doing there full damage against a BS sized ship and gives you more pain to dish out against BC's. I dont remember TP on any of my SB setups. 400dps or 350, who cares. Still enough to overcome most setups out there. While testing my Manti setup each missile did 430 damage against a Tempest/Typhoon (cant remember which) with the target painters I was getting 710 per missile. You can't tell me that is not worth fitting. Not too mention being able to light up smaller ships that think themselves too small too worry about fat torpedos. Of course against a Raven a target painter is pretty useless as it's sig size is already fat enough. Quote: Soloing in SB's is a suicide run and should only be attempted if you know your target has had the pleasure of recent lobotomy. Or if you know you can take out target before he takes out you. Cerbs are really nice targets because their lol-missiles barely scratch ABing frigates. Seriously? point me in the direction your killing these guys. Any Cerb pilot packing heavy launchers should have precision missiles on board... He should know that you cant hole up any of your resists and he should not ever be flying around in a HAC with resist holes... Mission running or not. I pray for targets this stupid.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.23 10:46:00 - [24] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 23/06/2009 10:47:14 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 23/06/2009 10:46:03 Originally by: Dan Glebitts Edited by: Dan Glebitts on 23/06/2009 09:47:08 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Or lowskilled. Or engaged by NPCs. Or using wrong tank type (EM vs 0 em resist ravens anyone?). Warrior II's will still kill you long before you can kill them. Of course if the pilot is completely hopeless you'll win but the odds are against you or should be. Not everyone has warriors t2. Not everyone can use em. Not everyone has maxed skills. not everyone has enough drone bay to fit them. And even if they do 1500 shields with 50% explo resist take a while to knock down. Raven under NPC fire dies faster (you need 3-4 salvos to knock down his shields, rest belongs to NPCs). Quote: Originally by: Deva Blackfire I dont remember TP on any of my SB setups. 400dps or 350, who cares. Still enough to overcome most setups out there. While testing my Manti setup each missile did 430 damage against a Tempest/Typhoon (cant remember which) with the target painters I was getting 710 per missile. You can't tell me that is not worth fitting. Not too mention being able to light up smaller ships that think themselves too small too worry about fat torpedos. I did around 1100 damage per salvo on drake above (covops lv4, torps lv3) so i guess i could reach around 1,3k with maxed skills. Its enough to break and kill him fast. 400damage on BS = he was either ABing or had halo set. I know phoon gets base damage reduction (its quite small bs) but its not almost 2x reduction. Quote: Originally by: Deva Blackfire Or if you know you can take out target before he takes out you. Cerbs are really nice targets because their lol-missiles barely scratch ABing frigates. Seriously? point me in the direction your killing these guys. Any Cerb pilot packing heavy launchers should have precision missiles on board... He should know that you cant hole up any of your resists and he should not ever be flying around in a HAC with resist holes... Mission running or not. I pray for targets this stupid. Check above i linked him. His setup was similiar to most pvp cerbs (except for MWD which he had in cargo - wtf?). Actually he had nice EM resits, i usually dont bother patching it up so took a while to kill. But after the fight i was still over 50% shields and he was dead. Just a hint: AB helps at tanking missiles. Helps so much that you are almost immune to heavies. As for your prayers: wecolme to EVE, where 95% (if not more) of the pilots have absolutely no clue how to fit/fly ships unless s1 tells them. Also welcome to 0.0 alliances where people are even more stupid and need "alliance fits" otherwise they die to... bomber ;p
Dan Glebitts	Posted - 2009.06.23 11:30:00 - [25] True not everyone has them... I guess I am speaking from my own mindset. If I ever went missioning in low sec I would make sure I had several checks in place to ensure no little scoundrel ruined my day. One of them being that regardless if all I can fit is 5 heavies... Tough... drop the heavies to make space for the lights. Fit large Nuet(s). As for the target painters the numbers are true. Minmatar do have small sig sizes but there not the only only ones whos sig radius falls far short of a torpedos and as i said anything smaller would get a shock being hit for alot more damage than it thought possible. BC's in particular. I am sorry but i just can't see how a Cerb pilot can die to a Stealth Bomber. A bad one sure no MWD? jeez. Precision missiles will do around 240damage against a Manti per volley and thats around every 6.5 seconds. The Manti would be doing more base damage but after resists and higher buffer the Cerb will win. Or should... Hurrah for numpty pilots. I have used my own SB in small gangs to a varying degree of success. Almost killed a dumb ass Mega pilot solo who thought to agress me with his Ogre II's... I would have killed that ship if his Inty flying mate hadn't shown up in the nick of time. But he was the exception, in every other instance if flying solo I'd have to bug out to avoid getting swatted... Also I do agree on the AB use a MWD on a stealth Bomber can be suicide if you screw up your transversal just once... Most of my SB kills come from this very instance. Guns fire... nothing... Guns fire... nothing... Guns fire... He's dead. If soloing is working for you keep it up :) I guess someone has to take the iskies away from the stupid. p.s. Where are you catching these guys. I see no mention of probing. So are they all on a gate? And why are they not burning back to a gate with an AB or MWD before you can kill them?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.23 11:59:00 - [26] If you check there are NPCs = belting. its 0.0 :) I caught one raven on gate but stopped firing when he was 4km from gate (he was 50% armor more-less). I guess with maxed skills i could kill him before he reapproached but in this case (lower skills) i just had to hpe he will jump and ill be able to catch him on other side. He warped off, o well :)
Valadeya uthanaras Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:29:00 - [27] Originally by: Dan Glebitts stuff From what you are saying, its like you never even tried to solo in a bomber , or you did it in a setup that was bit "meant" to be used for soloing lets check my solo setup mid: MWD/Injector/POINT The first , with my skill give my purifier 2500m/s(3000 with heat) with 180 sig radius plenty enought to lower drasticly incomming damage from cruise, or outrun medium and large drone (exept valkirye) The second mean i can run the setup almost indefenatly!!!! and immune to large neutralizer (just time injection properly) The third allow you to tackle , evidently _______________________________________________________________ You seem hell bent on painter, while its more than a facultative module for soloing, the painter can ONLY reduce the effect of lower signature radius on your target: I target with EM damage raven that tank kin thermal (19 solo kill so far) they use sheild rig that increase their sig they use extender that increase their sig Ironicly , a painter WOULD DO nothing to help killing faster SMALL DRONE: little know fact , 70% of NPCING battleship pilot wont see a point in fitting small drone because: they cant reach the "regular" tackling inty they will , in a 75m bay , fill it with 3 heavies they will prefer putting extra medium in cases of losing one overall , rarely will small drone be their priority For probing , best thing is directionnal scanner , to go fast where the yummy might be Valadeya
Dan Glebitts	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:51:00 - [28] I have solo'd and found it wanting... though admittedly it wasn't much in the way of 0.0 Like I said above all i'm saying is that against a pilot with any sort of intelligence you would be in trouble. Saying they are fitting med drones etc etc is all very good and i'm happy for all your kills. I guess it does just show the breadth of stupidity out there in the belts. A properly fitted piloted BS shouldn't have anything to fear from a solo SB. They have or should have enough tool at there disposal to fend of any would be SB pilot. But as I said thats me... Ratting in 0.0 should always be fit for safety in pvp then for the NPC's. If people are fitting solely for ratting then thats none of my business I can't stop stupidity. You're right I guess it happens... It'll just never happen to me or anyone else with a smote of common sense. I do fit for small gang work like i said. hence the target painter... Sensor Damp (or) tracking disrupter and I did say that the target painters would be useless against a Raven.
Hobgoblin ll Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Warrio Originally by: Securitas Protector I am a blackops FC... Wow, a real life blackops FC. Can I touch you? Your intelligence is too low to be a blackops FC in game, let alon in rl. Everyone who disagrees with me has either no clue or is a liar.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Dan Glebitts If you are flying a Manticore you could try fitting a small smartbomb in that last superflious high slot. It does fit quite comfortably and its area of effect would encompass any small drones sent your way... However I am unsure if it would be able to deal with them quick enough... Worth a go I guess. Small smarties eat too much cap and have way too low damage to kill drones fast enough. You are better off mounting salvager or even bomb launcher.

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