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Degenerating Skills

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Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2009.06.23 10:04:00 - [1] Edited by: Jade Mitch on 23/06/2009 10:16:42 It sure takes a long time to train skills. Long training times may encourage players to focus more on career-oriented skills but, I think the main reason why skill training is so long is because skill points are permanent. But even with these long training times, a lot of players will eventually max out most of the skill tree and then we'll have too many jacks of all trades. Degenerating Skills Say I am training a skill. The other skills in the same class will stay constant but all my other skills will loose points, even if I have a clone. I won't loose any skill levels though until I run out of all the skill points in those levels. A skill that I've already trained to level 5 will stay at level 5 until it looses all of it's points and falls back to level 4. No basic skills will loose points unless all the advanced skills that depend on them have degenerated back to zero. With a constant rate of degeneration, high skill levels will degenerate slower than low skill levels because they have more points. Likewise, high ranking skills will degenerate slower than low rank skills. One effect of this is that players will only be able to juggle so many level 5 skills at once, depending on the degeneration rate. Then they will have to stop training in order to avoid loosing 5th levels and that will further encourage career specialization. Another effect is that skill training times can be significantly reduced without giving any players any unfair advantages or perhaps prematurely exposing new players to advanced facets of the game.
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.06.23 10:09:00 - [2] This is a great idea. It's so great I just don't know how to complement you on your genius. Good job!
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.06.23 10:45:00 - [3] stare For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease.
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2009.06.23 10:59:00 - [4] is that sincerity or sarcasm?
gfldex Kabelkopp	Posted - 2009.06.23 11:34:00 - [5] Maxing out most skills will take more then 40 years (given that CCP stops adding more skills). The problem you try to solve doesn't exist.
Flapkonijn	Posted - 2009.06.23 11:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Jin Nib This is a great idea. It's so great I just don't know how to complement you on your genius. Good job! Is this your alt maybe??? Because noone in the WHOLE of eve would ever think losing skillpoints while playing would be a good idea...EVER!!! But to be constructive i'll tell you why it wouldn't work. I'm oldish myself almsot 5 years now. got 239 skills and 90+ on 5 out of that maube 30% would be considered advanced skills... I would be better of at that point not learning because i wouldn't be able to cope stopping those 27 lvl 5 advanced skills from going back to 4. Sorry IMHO awfull idea. only people that would agree to this idea would be people that wine about being killed by a 4 year old player in their BS after playing for 3 months. /not signed.
Marcus Gideon Gallente The NightClub	Posted - 2009.06.23 11:38:00 - [7] Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 23/06/2009 11:40:12 Originally by: Jade Mitch or sarcasm? this^ There is no reason why skill points should have to be renewed. Subscriptions = game time. Game time = training time. So you're saying that the money players spend to play the game, should just evaporate after a while. They grind through all the SP necessary to mine and refine so they can start making a living. Then once they have a decent amount of ISK, they branch out into other fields. But you're proposing that their earlier careers should eventually reset themselves, and the now fully fledged Capital pilot will have forgotten how to point a mining laser? Sorry, just doesn't work for me.
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:14:00 - [8] Originally by: gfldex Maxing out most skills will take more then 40 years... Oh really? (looks below) Originally by: Flapkonijn ...almost 5 years now. got 239 skills and 90+ on 5 out of that maube 30% would be considered advanced skills... It would work just fine if your 239 skills were divided between three characters. You don't need a single uber char with that many skills other than to exploit. Originally by: Marcus Gideon They grind through all the SP necessary to mine and refine so they can start making a living. Then once they have a decent amount of ISK, they branch out into other fields. But you're proposing that their earlier careers should eventually reset themselves, and the now fully fledged Capital pilot will have forgotten how to point a mining laser? But that's how it works. You do something for years and then change careers and within weeks your start forgetting the details of your old career. But I agree you don't forget everything and, if you ever switch back to your old career, you catch up quick. Perhaps then, there should be a limit to the number of levels you can loose from a skill (2?) and retraining a previously trained skill should be 2x or 3x faster.
Mucho Pain	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:18:00 - [9] Tho a daring idea, i'm not very happy with a idea like this. For a game beginning with allot of new players where most of them have about the same amount of skill points it would be a good idea. But for EvE where some characters are a few years old and have milions of skillpoint it would mean they would prolly couldn't keep up with the decay of SP loss. This would mean that they loose more then they could learn. Maybe something with EQ vector? If a char focuses on Amarr based skills then already learned caldari, minmatar and gallente based skills suffer a little in effectiveness, due to the character focussing on Amarr and thus "forgetting" how to effectively work other kinds of systems. Maybe even give the char a little bonus to Amarr related skills. This would mean there would be more 'dedicated' characters and such. Allround character could still do all kinds of stuff, only in certain parts not as good. my two cents (and don't mean to hijack post btw ), Mucho Pain
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:22:00 - [10] Edited by: Jade Mitch on 23/06/2009 12:24:36 I think you're forgetting an important detail. If you aren't training any skills, you won't loose any skill points. Players like Flapkonijn's owner can simply stop training Flapkonijn and start a new char.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:33:00 - [11] The point still stands: there is no problem, what are you trying to fix? Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Grarr Dexx The point still stands: there is no problem, what are you trying to fix? Two things: Uber long training times and uber chars. This addressing them both at once. It enforces career specialization and the use of multiple chars and allows CCP at least consider reducing skill training times without significantly altering their business model.
trading hub	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:43:00 - [13] stare
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:48:00 - [14] "So guys.. this game's been going great for years now... let's break some of the fundamentals!" Not supported. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Grarr Dexx Amarr Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.06.23 12:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Jade Mitch Originally by: Grarr Dexx The point still stands: there is no problem, what are you trying to fix? Two things: Uber long training times and uber chars. This addressing them both at once. It enforces career specialization and the use of multiple chars and allows CCP at least consider reducing skill training times without significantly altering their business model. I pointed out the flaw in your statement. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Yal XianKun Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.23 13:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Jade Mitch Edited by: Jade Mitch on 23/06/2009 12:24:36 I think you're forgetting an important detail. If you aren't training any skills, you won't loose any skill points. Players like Flapkonijn's owner can simply stop training Flapkonijn and start a new char. Why would I want to start a new character?
Leto Aramaus Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.23 14:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Jade Mitch It would work just fine if your 239 skills were divided between three characters. You don't need a single uber char with that many skills other than to exploit. ................... Is this kid re-tarded? Let me clarify what your situation and complaints are, -You have 4 active accounts -you think training times should be lower so you can get all those characters to higher leves without taking as long as those of us who have played longer than you -and you think those who have been playing longer then everyone don't deserve to have 'uber characters' because they are only good for 'exploiting' Let me start by saying you are a pathetic jealous baby. The guy who has FOUR accounts calls a single character who has been training and paying subscriptions for years an 'exploiter'. If ANYTHING, you having 4 active accounts is 10 times more of an exploit, dumb-@ss. And now you want those 4 accounts to be able to train faster for the elite pvp ships you can't fly, and you're jealous that people with 2, 3, 4 year old characters can fly them? Oh and you want those people who have been training and paying for years to now LOSE their skillpoints because... they dont deserve to have 'uber characters'? I don't even want to continue, I could go ALLLLLL day. I'll stop with this: You don't deserve to have ANY characters, at ANY skill level
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:04:00 - [18] Stupid idea. One of THE stupidest ideas ever. Get out of my game. NOW! And never ever come back! You hear me!
Cain m Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:15:00 - [19] Edited by: Cain m on 23/06/2009 15:16:05 Please go die in a well...
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:25:00 - [20] ...omg, I upset people...
Leto Aramaus Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:37:00 - [21] People should be upset when morons try to spread influence among the public. --Freedom
Vespoi Filar	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:43:00 - [22] seriously Jade... stop posting... your ideas are horrible
Victor Michaelle	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:46:00 - [23] I think the idea makes sense. If uber chars and long training times were both problems this would be a great solution. I don't believe uber chars is a problem though. I'm a bit too new to actually know, but I get that impression from what people are saying. Eve seems to have enough tactical things involved to make sure that high skill levels doesn't mean total domination. As for faster skill training, this would be good for making the new player experience better, making more people stay. However, they already adressed this issue by making skill training faster your first [some number] of skillpoints. If that wasn't enough, they could probably just tweak some numbers to fix it.
Maxsim Goratiev Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.23 16:44:00 - [24] NO
ShadowDraqon The Quantum Company Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.06.23 17:20:00 - [25] I see your intention: Say you have skill to fly a drone boat, then spend six months flying a caracal/drake/raven and training missile/shield skills. You'd get a little rusty on the drone skills, not having touched a drone boat for months. Maybe degenerating skills you aren't actually using? This idea would work if it had been in the game from the beginning. But since the current system has been in the game for all these years, you would get a lot of unhappy ppl if you implemented it now.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.06.23 17:29:00 - [26] This may be perhaps the single worst idea I've ever heard.
Nostredeus Morphius Minmatar Judgement. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.06.23 17:37:00 - [27] If you want a decent character faster then: Get a caldari mission runner into a drake and run missions for a while then use the money to buy a character to your liking. Buy GTC's and sell them then do as above... Otherwise get used to doing it the same way everyone has to... slowly...
Eric Woo	Posted - 2009.06.23 17:38:00 - [28] Stop smoking weed Jade.
ghengis khan2 Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.06.23 17:38:00 - [29] So to train to a t2 ship u need high level spaceship command skills .But while training them, all your other skills degenerate, so you need to go back to say gunnery to train those back up, but while doing so your electronics/engineering/navigation/drone yada yada degenerate, you would NEVER be able to maintain your skills.... your a fool sir. [url]
Komi Toran	Posted - 2009.06.23 17:44:00 - [30] Yeah! Great idea! You know what can also help keep those uber-characters in line? Eliminate clone upgrades! Hell, eliminate clones all together! You get podded, you restart from the beginning! Wouldn't that be great! Come on people, Jade's thrown down the gauntlet. Can you come up with something dumber?

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