| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Meelah Ra
Arkons of Myth
Aggression.
   |
Posted - 2009.06.25 15:03:00 -
[1]
So, I finally entered the jita market last night. I'd spent approximately 4 months playing the game, building up assets. I bought miners, mined A/B/Cs to make more isk, then sold the miners at a profit. I also made some isk via buying an underpriced character on the character boards and then reselling him (appx 5.5 bil profit). I sold my miners for a nice profit (more than I made mining, heh), bought this character, and dropped my extra isk into a jita trader to try to pay for pvp.
I've studied the market for a long time, but not really gotten my feet wet in a big way. Until now, my isk has pretty much always been busy. Sooooo, I take the plunge. I dropped 95% of my isk into 1 market manipulation. It moves appx 30 bil a day and buying all the stock priced in the low range took about 11 bil. I move it up appx 10% (where a lot of sell orders are still chilling) and set up a bunch of sell orders. I also inserted a bunch of buy orders to get the average price to rise (people are less likely to buy from sell orders if there is a huge disparity).
I then go to bed. I am already sort of regretting doing this at night, when I can't watch orders for a while. Oh well. At least its pricey enough that a lot of traders can't get into it.
I wake up.. some sold. Cool. A lot of people set up buy orders. Meh. I should have moved my buy orders up higher to start with. Oh well, now I can fix that. I set a bunch of buy orders that move the price up another 2%, adjust my sell orders to be the lowest (only moved like .5 isk which was nice) and set my laptop up next to my computer while I take care of other things. Shortly after I do that, someone drops a huge buy order where I moved them. Awesome! Every 10-15 minutes I adjust prices if needed, but there isn't a lot of .01 isk going on... a major reason I picked this in the first place. I don't have any tools (need to look into this!) to make adjusting stuff easier/faster and I don't really want to babysit it 10 hours a day. Over the course of the morning, I sold off approximately half my stock which was making me really happy. Theoretically this is how it should work, but when a HUGE portion of your assets is tied up in something.. it makes the heart beat (especially since this is my first real attempt in the market).
So, everything is going well right?
Not anymore, I now stand to lose money.. and perhaps tons of money. Could I have done something differently? I have no clue how.
The issue?
"User xxx is banned"
"Reason: Pending Investigation"
"Until 2009.07.02)
WTF?! So now... 95% of my assets are tied up. I cannot adjust sell orders. I have no access to my isk. And in the week it will take for this nonsense "investigation", the price is certainly going to return to normal... possibly lower. I can't even think of why this would happen, as there are 2 ways to get banned imo: Macros (haha, I think I'd adjust orders a LOT more often if I did this.. and not go to sleep for 8 hours right after making the plunge). 2) RMT: Huh? Main way of RMT from what I understand is trading trit/other stuff via contracts or just the regular trade window then reselling. 11 bil isk in the market, to make 300-400 mil profit (I need better caldari navy standing!) in some sort of secret RMT deal seems absurd. Also, my sellers/buyers are majorly varied. One buyer bought a lot, but even he is only like 50% of my total sales.
In general I'm just really frustrated/annoyed/depressed at the moment. I think fighting RMT/macros is a good thing, but I've never been the collateral damage before. I always had the assumption that 99.999% of bannings are correct, and justified. Now.. not so much. One suspicion of mine is that someone saw the manipulation, petitioned "omg macro trader!!" and is cashing in on my manipulation while I am banned for a bogus investigation. So ya, apparently "BS banning because you spent a lot of isk" is a secret risk to market manipulation that I NEVER would have considered.
|
Leowen
Industrial Giants
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 15:19:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Meelah Ra
One suspicion of mine is that someone saw the manipulation, petitioned "omg macro trader!!" and is cashing in on my manipulation while I am banned for a bogus investigation. So ya, apparently "BS banning because you spent a lot of isk" is a secret risk to market manipulation that I NEVER would have considered.
This is awesome. Market PVP at it's finest. But, if I'm honest, incredibly low. So low even I wouldn't do it!
GL sorting it. Make CCP aware of your suspicion and demand they investigate as this would be mechanics abuse imo. |
Dzil
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 15:25:00 -
[3]
Quote:
Sooooo, I take the plunge. I dropped 95% of my isk into 1 market manipulation.
So - it's probably obvious based on what happened. But, this was your main problem.
If you fly a ship worth 95% of your NAV, and get it blown up in a mission/PVP/server fart, most would tell you not to fly something you can't afford to lose.
The same holds true in the markets, and/or investments. You should never really be more than 20-25% vested into any one particular adventure: that way if one tanks, it's not the end of the world. I truely hope your account and isk get freed up, it sounds like you genuinely didn't do anything wrong, but happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
|
HawkBlade
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
Virtue of Selfishness
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 15:30:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Meelah Ra
I always had the assumption that 99.999% of bannings are correct, and justified. Now.. not so much. One suspicion of mine is that someone saw the manipulation, petitioned "omg macro trader!!" and is cashing in on my manipulation while I am banned for a bogus investigation.
I would not be surprised this is the case. About 2 years ago I was heavily involved in some acquisitions that had a lot of competition. (region wide fight for about 3 dozen meta 4 items) I would do ice mining in that region but I also had an egg timer set for 5 minutes. Then I would cycle through my orders to see what my competitors had done. In the minds of most market macro tinfoil beanie wearers, I am a bot.
|
Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 15:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Meelah Ra
.01 isk going on... a major reason I picked this in the first place.
IMO you should always look for items with lots of .01isking going on. This way your price movements very quickly get hidden by the "normal" .01isking. Allowing your manipulation to stay unnoticed for a bit longer.
cannot believe they banned you for it though although using 95% of you total isk may look a bit suspect. try petitioning what you posted here tosee what reasons the devs have for the ban.
|
Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 15:36:00 -
[6]
looks like a grief attempt, if what the OP writes is true.
I would petetion back, that WHEN you are found innocent, that the griefer gets banned for harrasment.
I dont mind meta gaming, but reporting competetion is just lame, and should be repaid with a permanent ban!
TMPI |
Dragon Greg
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 15:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ji Sama
looks like a grief attempt, if what the OP writes is true.
I would petetion back, that WHEN you are found innocent, that the griefer gets banned for harrasment.
I dont mind meta gaming, but reporting competetion is just lame, and should be repaid with a permanent ban!
It's pointless really.
He's not the first one to have this happen to, nor will he be the last. Frankly I am surprised his investigative ban is that short (no, not a joke).
The people who usually do this kind of crap are typically smart enough to do it in pairs. One guy files the petition with his "suspicions", the other guy jumps on top of the buy/sell orders the owner can't tweak as he has an investigative ban on his behind. Only hope would be the wannabee griefer did it solo, in which case the GM can easily see whether he went to work with it, but how would the GM prove intent. He can't. Even then, the OP has to take his losses once he gets to log in again.
CCP never reimburses consequences no matter what. Painful, especially in circumstances like these.
|
Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 16:04:00 -
[8]
Well it sucks nonetheless.
Ie. in theory with my army of alts i could start to petetion all the competetion. (atleast the major players)
But we also need to remember that we are only getting one side of the story.
What i dont understand is that the OP didnt get a mail, explaining why he was banned (ie. what investigation they are doing) RMT, Macro/botting etc.
But then again, if i was CCP and i didnt have to i would not say what people where accused of, based on the logic that they could obfuscate their investigation or even learn perhaps what revealed their cheating.
I guess what im trying to say with this jibberish is; your right :p |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 16:22:00 -
[9]
The OP did several completely wrong things, from putting all at stake on a single transaction to injecting billions with no experience instead of 100-200M "to wet his feet".
I would not be surprised his lack of prudence made him buy a former RMT involved character that got sold "when air turned bad and ban was next" and he bought it. |
Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 16:26:00 -
[10]
ah ha yes ofc VV that makes sense... |
|
|
Leowen
Industrial Giants
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 16:29:00 -
[11]
*Leowen is relieved that he never uses any of his known chars in his manip efforts. |
Margin Call
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 17:12:00 -
[12]
I am sure that the manipulation efforts are not what got the account banned. Bans simply don't happen on a whim. |
Jones Bones
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 17:21:00 -
[13]
Right...
An "OMG macro trader" petition was answered within 24 hours? Which website did you buy your isk from?
===================
Go Bucks! |
Krylon Rhae
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 17:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Meelah Ra
... I'd spent approximately 4 months playing the game, building up assets. I bought miners, mined A/B/Cs to make more isk, then sold the miners at a profit.
...It moves appx 30 bil a day and buying all the stock priced in the low range took about 11 bil.
Me thinks I know the problem...
Where did you buy the isk?
|
Sakai Kando
Gallente
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 17:58:00 -
[15]
Maybe he did some research and didn't come in to the game a total newb?
I only started in december, and I have more assets than that... |
Meelah Ra
Arkons of Myth
Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 18:24:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Meelah Ra on 25/06/2009 18:25:02
Originally by: Krylon Rhae
Originally by: Meelah Ra
... I'd spent approximately 4 months playing the game, building up assets. I bought miners, mined A/B/Cs to make more isk, then sold the miners at a profit.
...It moves appx 30 bil a day and buying all the stock priced in the low range took about 11 bil.
Me thinks I know the problem...
Where did you buy the isk?
Oh my god, I just got busted :( :( I bought RMT isk, got caught, and then came to the forums where nobody has ever heard of me to look for sympathy.
Or
I bought some initial capital via GTCs (miners were a lot cheaper a few months ago!), and have then been multiplying that initial investment ever since. Not being dumb might help with this too.
I don't know that I see this as "your mistake was you put all your eggs in one basket". I mean.. if I put it all into one item and that item crashed... sure, my bad. I knew that risk going in. It'd been fairly stable with minor fluctuations for 3 months, but that COULD have happened. Getting an account completely banned out of the blue WAS unexpected, and hopefully I'll hear back about it. Its not even like they hit the account I do my playing with either. The banned account has 1 character that sits in jita and a caldari PvE character that I ditched very early on when I decided Caldari was sorta meh in the long run for pvp. The account with this character on it is unbanned, has received no notification, and no answer to the "wtf?!" petition. |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 21:36:00 -
[17]
Sounds like a "When I buy chocolate icecream my car breaks down" story tbh.
Long and the short of that is "Just because you bought chocolate ice cream and your car immediately broke down doesn't mean buying chocolate ice cream makes cars break down". |
Sir Elliot
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 21:47:00 -
[18]
As someone that has engaged in furious attempts to get botters banned, I doubt you were banned for supposed botting.
Think long and hard, I'm sure you'll figure it out.
|
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 21:55:00 -
[19]
Correlation does not imply causation.
|
MarieFrance Tessier
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 21:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Sounds like a "When I buy chocolate icecream my car breaks down" story tbh.
Long and the short of that is "Just because you bought chocolate ice cream and your car immediately broke down doesn't mean buying chocolate ice cream makes cars break down".
QFT. Correlation != causation, and the plural of anecdote is not data.
l'm "sure" CCP had a reason to ban you.*
*(CCP probably did not have a reason to ban you, sorry). Good luck getting it fixed. And how does investing 95% of your isk into the same venture look suspicious in a EULA sense? Sure, it's stupid, but it's not meaningfully wrong.
|
|
|
Stay Gold
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 21:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Sounds like a "When I buy chocolate icecream my car breaks down" story tbh.
Long and the short of that is "Just because you bought chocolate ice cream and your car immediately broke down doesn't mean buying chocolate ice cream makes cars break down".
I say that about smoking + cancer all the time. Tumors cause cancer, not smoking! BLAME THE TUMAHH
(its not a tumah)
|
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 21:58:00 -
[22]
On the chance the OP is innocent, there is the possibility that the people buying/selling to him were ISK farmers/sellers, as it's one way to transfer money between people. Considering all of his ISK was in one item, that would certainly be suspicious as far as collaborating with the launderers. I cant believe I'm saying this but ... the GMs can be damn crafty at times, guessing ways in which people will try to game the system.
|
Rip Minner
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 13:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
On the chance the OP is innocent, there is the possibility that the people buying/selling to him were ISK farmers/sellers, as it's one way to transfer money between people. Considering all of his ISK was in one item, that would certainly be suspicious as far as collaborating with the launderers. I cant believe I'm saying this but ... the GMs can be damn crafty at times, guessing ways in which people will try to game the system.
Wait a sec here. Its a game not real mony at least if your not an isk farmer resaling it for real cash. If you come up with crafty market moves to make isk is that not the Trader way? Out side of not using a bot. |
Stick Cult
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 16:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rip Minner
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
On the chance the OP is innocent, there is the possibility that the people buying/selling to him were ISK farmers/sellers, as it's one way to transfer money between people. Considering all of his ISK was in one item, that would certainly be suspicious as far as collaborating with the launderers. I cant believe I'm saying this but ... the GMs can be damn crafty at times, guessing ways in which people will try to game the system.
Wait a sec here. Its a game not real mony at least if your not an isk farmer resaling it for real cash. If you come up with crafty market moves to make isk is that not the Trader way? Out side of not using a bot.
Crafty ways to MAKE isk is a trader, crafty ways to LAUNDER isk is an isk farmer.
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 16:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
On the chance the OP is innocent, there is the possibility that the people buying/selling to him were ISK farmers/sellers, as it's one way to transfer money between people. Considering all of his ISK was in one item, that would certainly be suspicious as far as collaborating with the launderers. I cant believe I'm saying this but ... the GMs can be damn crafty at times, guessing ways in which people will try to game the system.
QFT
Its only that suspicious though when your plugging your entire wallet into a single item. |
Zero Uptick
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 16:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Meelah Ra
I...bought this character
There is no record in the character bazaar of you being sold via the sanctioned method. I'm going to go with "unsanctioned account/character trading" got you banned.
/thread
|
KaarBaak
Minmatar
Squirrel Team
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 16:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Meelah Ra
I also made some isk via buying an underpriced character on the character boards and then reselling him (appx 5.5 bil profit).
I would suspect this transaction as unwitting participation in an RMT pilot shuffle.
|
Vechtor
Gallente
Federation Mineral Reserves
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 17:15:00 -
[28]
Interesting.
So, you put approximately 30% of the total cash a market trades a day (11 bill / 30 bill), then you start to change your buy/sell orders in order to raise prices and drive other buy orders up so you can make a killing... and CCP gets suspicious.
Well, couple of things I think CCP has to wonder:
1) How come that someone can put 30% of what Jita, the biggest trade hub with more than 1k people there at peaks, trades per day? This is the ultimate market manipulation m8, its a size of a concentration not paralleled in RL as far as I know of, at least on the regulated/efficient markets (and I must assume that in the eve-verse Jita earned this status and most people takes it by such, CCP included)
2) CCP allows gankers to gank auto-piloting freighters around Jita, forcing them to deal with losses that goes on to the scale of billions, in HI-SEC, and a trader can't manipulate the market for couple days?
This thread is interesting because it made me think that CCP gives to much attention and energy developing other tricky and cruel, some times ridiculous, ways to make people fire their guns at eachother, and forgets other very important and basic issues it had to deal with, such as..... market.
|
Dzil
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 17:57:00 -
[29]
I suspect the OP has been dirtier than he lets on here.
----------------------
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings
---------------------- |
Nuzzy Futs
Amarr
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 20:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Vechtor
Interesting.
So, you put approximately 30% of the total cash a market trades a day (11 bill / 30 bill), then you start to change your buy/sell orders in order to raise prices and drive other buy orders up so you can make a killing... and CCP gets suspicious.
Well, couple of things I think CCP has to wonder:
1) How come that someone can put 30% of what Jita, the biggest trade hub with more than 1k people there at peaks, trades per day? This is the ultimate market manipulation m8, its a size of a concentration not paralleled in RL as far as I know of, at least on the regulated/efficient markets (and I must assume that in the eve-verse Jita earned this status and most people takes it by such, CCP included)
......
Search on hunt brothers and silver |
|
|
Mutnin
Mutineers
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 23:38:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mutnin on 26/06/2009 23:38:10
Did you buy ISK? You said you have been playing only 4 months yet you have bought several toons in that time as you claim. While I guess it's doable, it seems like you have a hell of a lot of ISK to play with as such a new player. |
Nuzzy Futs
Amarr
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2009.06.27 00:38:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mutnin
Edited by: Mutnin on 26/06/2009 23:38:10
Did you buy ISK? You said you have been playing only 4 months yet you have bought several toons in that time as you claim. While I guess it's doable, it seems like you have a hell of a lot of ISK to play with as such a new player.
Now don't spoil it - It is so much more fun when people complain on the forums and then CCP comes in and sets down their take on the situation.
It could be as simple as a character petitioned the competition - it could be a trail from isk/charterers history. Either way the end result should be interesting whichever way iot all sorts out. |
Meelah Ra
Arkons of Myth
Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.06.27 02:51:00 -
[33]
Did end up getting this resolved.
Ended up costing me 100 mil profit as I didn't get everything out of the item before it crashed (bout 30 hours I wasn't able to log on my trader). However, CCP did apologize and gave me a few extra days to 2 accounts. I did still make 400 mil off of the manipulation though so I'll live.
What ACTUALLY happened:
I bought a character. Later on, I sold it. Time passed. CCP got a petition that the character I sold was transferred without owner permission. They sent an email to the email of that other account that hosted the character (that is inactive at this point) that I didn't check. They also locked down my trader account with no email sent. The email they sent was basically "xxx has complained that the character was transferred without consent. We noticed it was moved to your account and then later sold. How did you move it to your account?". At which point I highlighted the forsale thread where I bought it, the amount of isk I transferred to the account when I bought it, and the forsale thread where I later sold it. A little while later I received an apologetic email, free days, and the accounts were unbanned.
Soooo, my bad for having an old account with an email that I don't check very often. Would have been cool if they'd sent the email to both accounts that they banned. In my own defense.. I'll say that the musing about someone petitioning me was just that. The timing really WAS horrid thought as it was my first attempt at manipulation and the whole thing happened at the worst possible time.
Discussion on people saying I am a moron for going 100% into 1 item in next post... |
Meelah Ra
Arkons of Myth
Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.06.27 02:52:00 -
[34]
reserved, editing shortly |
Chu Ran
Caldari
Heavy Influence
Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.06.27 02:58:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Chu Ran on 27/06/2009 02:59:54
Originally by: Meelah Ra
Did end up getting this resolved.
Ended up costing me 100 mil profit as I didn't get everything out of the item before it crashed (bout 30 hours I wasn't able to log on my trader). However, CCP did apologize and gave me a few extra days to 2 accounts. I did still make 400 mil off of the manipulation though so I'll live.
What ACTUALLY happened:
I bought a character. Later on, I sold it. Time passed. CCP got a petition that the character I sold was transferred without owner permission. They sent an email to the email of that other account that hosted the character (that is inactive at this point) that I didn't check. They also locked down my trader account with no email sent. The email they sent was basically "xxx has complained that the character was transferred without consent. We noticed it was moved to your account and then later sold. How did you move it to your account?". At which point I highlighted the forsale thread where I bought it, the amount of isk I transferred to the account when I bought it, and the forsale thread where I later sold it. A little while later I received an apologetic email, free days, and the accounts were unbanned.
Soooo, my bad for having an old account with an email that I don't check very often. Would have been cool if they'd sent the email to both accounts that they banned. In my own defense.. I'll say that the musing about someone petitioning me was just that. The timing really WAS horrid thought as it was my first attempt at manipulation and the whole thing happened at the worst possible time.
Discussion on people saying I am a moron for going 100% into 1 item in next post...
In before the mods!
Just a heads up: discussions regarding CCP responses to petitions are forbidden on the forums.
|
Chu Ran
Caldari
Heavy Influence
Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.06.27 02:59:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Chu Ran on 27/06/2009 02:59:36
Nothing to see here...
|
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
|
Posted - 2009.06.27 03:02:00 -
[37]
Not surprising. CCP take issues with character sales very seriously.
|
Meelah Ra
Arkons of Myth
Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.06.27 03:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Chu Ran
Edited by: Chu Ran on 27/06/2009 02:59:54
In before the mods!
Just a heads up: discussions regarding CCP responses to petitions are forbidden on the forums.
Didn't know that, off to adjust the post now. |
Clara Mismer
Minmatar
Gulfonodi Industries
|
Posted - 2009.06.27 06:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Meelah Ra
Edited by: Meelah Ra on 27/06/2009 03:04:19
On everyone implying I'm a moron for dropping everything into one item: I disagree. Yes there are risks, but I don't want to do .01 isk all day. By hitting something that was high dollar, it meant I had a LOT less competition. There were periods where 2 other people were fighting with me, but there were also periods where I left it for a few hours, came back, and was still the low sell order. I want to play eve, not "reduce by .01". I also don't have an efficient method for checking 30 orders in a not sucky way yet (I think this is doable with tools, I just don't have ANY tools to assist in marketing).
I also didn't just buy in at some random point. I went in when it was at a low point of a cycle. I kicked it back to what is the high end of the cycle. Heck maybe its not even a manipulation, just a re pricing or whatever. When an item hasn't been below x for 3 months, I think buying a ton at x+(really small %) isn't crazy risky.
Down the road, I'll probably figure out how to spread out orders better in a way that I can check efficiently and adjust efficiently. Or heck, maybe go into something else like capital production, I dunno. I'm still looking for the ideal way to use my isk to increase isk, while getting to focus (mostly) on other aspects of the game. This was an experiment... that I liked the results of but its also not something I can do consistently.
Oh well. live and learn. Thanks to those who didn't auto assume OH MY GOD YOU BOUGHT ISK YOU DIRTY RMTer!! I did buy some initial isk.. the legal way via GTCs. But that is a fraction of my current networth (I did spend a LOT of hours mining in 0.0 tho :P).
You can reduce all this down to just : When you make a move in a market you need to have enough isk in the game to maximize your profit potential.
If you dont have beef behind your home run hits you have a lot of small successes but not much increase in your wallet.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.06.27 07:35:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 27/06/2009 07:37:53
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 27/06/2009 07:36:00
Quote:
On everyone implying I'm a moron for dropping everything into one item: I disagree. Yes there are risks, but I don't want to do .01 isk all day. By hitting something that was high dollar, it meant I had a LOT less competition.
"Yes there are risks" is the excuse IRL traders and stock exchange / forex players bring in to justify poor money management.
You DO NOT want to eat in your capital like that, because the unforeseeable is always there to bite your money off.
After all, if not by appropriately self-policing, what is a single way to preserve capital when totally unpredictable external factors are always ready to hit?
Could you EVER imagine being banned for suspect RMT? No, eh? It's exactly why to NOT put all the bets on one horse.
Because if you lose 50% of your capital, then you don't just need a 50% gain to recover.
You will do like this:
drawdown % : % to recover
0 : 0
10 : 11.11
20 : 25
30 : 43
40 : 67
50 : 100
60 : 150
70 : 233
80 : 400
90 : 900
Ie you need to have a 100% gain to make up for a 50% loss.
This is why capital risk investors want to:
- spread risk across multiple ventures
- keep the money invested at a fraction of their capital, sometimes even just 2% of it (prudent profile) to 10% (risky profile). Edit: of course in EvE you can "dare" a lot more since it's not your IRL money at stake. But not going on a tangent either.
Moreover your assumption that to avoid the 0.01 ISK you have to go big dollar is wrong and I suggest contacting James Tundra for a course on how it's done.
(I audited the guy and let's say he got the knack for making good margins with limited 0.01 isking effort).
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |