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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
K'thang
Gallente Ferengi Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.02 06:22:00 -
[61]
Edited by: K''thang on 02/07/2009 06:36:45 Well, it's been several days now and still no response to the petition or despite several people stating this in public nothing has been done to reverse double billings.
So I contacted my bank and asked them what to do. They said I should write one last e-mail to support asking for a swift handling. I am not sure if that's going to do it though, but they said that if nothing has happened by the end of the week they'll take the matter up with VISA as there were protocols which things are done by and VISA has a standard handling in these matters as there's a lot of double-billing theft when people go on vacation for example.
VISA said, that if they received matters like these from enough people that has this problem, quote: the company in question can lose their ability to use VISA as a means of purchase for their customers. Now I am sure this won't happen if just a couple of people complain, as this is something mostly used to shut down small businesses that cheat.
But EVE has a large player base, and if one thousand people, just to take a random number, has been double billed and thus contacts their bank/VISA for help because they are not getting any answers either from public announcements or support I am pretty sure this can have some impact and possibly affect future payments not supported by VISA.
Now, the reason why I am saying this is because I don't want to lose the possibility to pay by VISA, but I don't want to be double charged without some kind of recognition that they know of the problem and they will fix it.
It is the easiest thing in the world, with our computers, to do a search in the customer base to find out if people have indeed been double-billed by whomever handles the billing. And after that, just make a public announcement about it. Then we know it is being handled, albeit slowly which we are somewhat used to.
We are loyal players most of us, and I've been with EVE since launch. So please, make some kind of acknowledgement of the problem. And of course any of the other problems other people sadly are having as well.
Thank you. |
JeanMichel Bizarre
The Golden Apple Corps Discordia.
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Posted - 2009.07.02 07:06:00 -
[62]
This ghost charge has also happened to me. (see this thread ) I have sent a petition (2 days an no answer) I also wrote [email protected] all to no avail.
I am very displeased with this and with 2 days of gametime left (although I was charged 14.95 euro, the equivalent of 30 days) I find it very difficult to even enjoy the game.
I am also considering taking legal action against CCP for this unauthorized charge on my account. I will contact my bank and see what's MASTERCARD's policy on things like this. ------ buy my music here or listen to it here |
Kwanaioo
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Posted - 2009.07.02 07:42:00 -
[63]
Yeah the strangest and most troubling part is CCP's total denial of the double billings.
I'm happy (well, happy's not really the right word) that I was not the only one who was double billed. Maybe after CCP receives several disputes they will realize that they did indeed have an erroneous billing that went out, and hopefully apologize for the trouble. Or at least admit that they messed up.
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JeanMichel Bizarre
The Golden Apple Corps Discordia.
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Posted - 2009.07.02 07:49:00 -
[64]
Edited by: JeanMichel Bizarre on 02/07/2009 07:54:44 Edited by: JeanMichel Bizarre on 02/07/2009 07:49:04 While I know errors do happen, and would have easily accepted this as just that, a mistake, I am furious with the lack of response from CCP. A simple statement saying they know this happened and are working to get it fixed would have gone a looooooong way towards our peace of mind.
But simply ignoring our petitions and emails is unacceptable. This is fecking BS. ------ buy my music here or listen to it here |
Kwanaioo
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Posted - 2009.07.02 07:55:00 -
[65]
I received a response to my email/petition today, after filing them on the 27th of June. I think this may be because I filed two petitions (one did not, and still does not show in my petitions page) on the same issue.
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JeanMichel Bizarre
The Golden Apple Corps Discordia.
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Posted - 2009.07.02 08:00:00 -
[66]
Edited by: JeanMichel Bizarre on 02/07/2009 07:59:54
Originally by: Kwanaioo I filed two petitions (one did not, and still does not show in my petitions page) on the same issue.
This is EXACTLY the case for me. The first petition I filed regarding this erroneous and unauthorized billing went poof into internet thin air. I had to file a second one for it to appear in the my petitions list. ------ buy my music here or listen to it here |
Marcus Tedric
Gallente Tedric Enterprises The Star League
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Posted - 2009.07.02 09:58:00 -
[67]
An update.....
Queries all resolved and the one account so far to go through has done. Will be very interesting to compare the CC bill when it comes in a month's time as it will have the 'old' one at the same time that went through 2 days before 1 Jul.
I'll then have the one at $131.40 and the other at Ç131.40 and see what the actual difference is when converted to dear old ú's. (This is more due to national/EU tax policies, BTW, than CCP trying to gain extra RL iskies!)
There has been another, not completely obvious change, however, that I have asked is changed on the website so that it is not mis-leading us.
It now seems that everything is aligned with the 30-day GTC/Plex as a 'month' is now equal to 30days regardless - and a "12 month" subscription isn't actually that any more - it's now 360 days......
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JeanMichel Bizarre
The Golden Apple Corps Discordia.
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Posted - 2009.07.02 10:56:00 -
[68]
An update on my issue.
They replied to the email I sent them and said I have a double filling (apparently my fist petition got to them somehow) and closed it but they did not say a single word on my actual issue and the reason I even wrote to them in the first place.
This is outrageous. ------ buy my music here or listen to it here |
Haral Reimo
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Posted - 2009.07.02 11:05:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Haral Reimo on 02/07/2009 11:05:39
Originally by: Marcus Tedric I'll then have the one at $131.40 and the other at Ç131.40 and see what the actual difference is when converted to dear old ú's. (This is more due to national/EU tax policies, BTW, than CCP trying to gain extra RL iskies!)
At current mid-market exchange rates that'll give you ú80.27 and ú112.93 respectively (actual rates will vary, but not by more than a pound or two).
The only tax involved is VAT, for which the UK rate is 15%. Charging that on top of the dollar price, gives a final UK price of ú92.31.
Even going at the highest VAT rate in the EU (Denmark and Sweden at 25%) that still only comes to ú100.34.
Sorry, this price hike isn't caused purely by tax, there's definite Scandinavian greed involved as well.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2009.07.02 14:51:00 -
[70]
For those who have been double billed, please submit petitions, our Customer Support department will sort it our for you once they get to your petition.
The best way to submit a petition is to go here, select Billing & Account and then select Payment issues.
Wrangler Senior Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us
If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid. |
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JeanMichel Bizarre
The Golden Apple Corps Discordia.
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Posted - 2009.07.02 15:28:00 -
[71]
Finally. A word from CCP. All hope is not lost. ------ buy my music here or listen to it here |
Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.07.02 15:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Haral Reimo The only tax involved is VAT, for which the UK rate is 15%. Charging that on top of the dollar price, gives a final UK price of ú92.31. Even going at the highest VAT rate in the EU (Denmark and Sweden at 25%) that still only comes to ú100.34.
Knowing which VAT rate to use is a little complicated, and it depends on where Eve is "supplied from". If it's Iceland (part of the continent of Europe, but not the EU), then they must charge based on the country the customer is in. If it's in London (because the server is there) then they must charge all EU customers UK vat rates (15%).
Close, but incorrect. Iceland is part of European Economic Area and as such is effectively considered on par with EU-nations on the issue you described (among other things). This means that CCP as an electronic service provider can charge Icelandic VAT to all subscribers from the EU (and non-EU EEA countries).
FREE! jumpclone service: Forum thread|Podlog |
Haral Reimo
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Posted - 2009.07.02 16:19:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Close, but incorrect. Iceland is part of European Economic Area and as such is effectively considered on par with EU-nations on the issue you described (among other things). This means that CCP as an electronic service provider can charge Icelandic VAT to all subscribers from the EU (and non-EU EEA countries).
Iceland is part of the EEA, but not the EU VAT Area. As I said, it's complicated! Either way, 40% is not between 15 and 25% (which are the maximum extents of EU VAT).
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Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.07.02 19:10:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Haral Reimo Iceland is part of the EEA, but not the EU VAT Area. As I said, it's complicated! Either way, 40% is not between 15 and 25% (which are the maximum extents of EU VAT).
Well, considering the link Wrangler provided some time ago CCP seems to think EU directives apply to them.
However it seems you are right. I've searched for some more information regarding this (Wikipedia links don't cut it, sorry) and it does appear this is excluded from the EEA agreement. (And here is a EEA document [PDF] specifically excluding a VAT-related article (22(1)(d)) in Directive 2006/123/EC [PDF] ('on services in the internal market').
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Kwanaioo
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Posted - 2009.07.02 21:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler For those who have been double billed, please submit petitions, our Customer Support department will sort it our for you once they get to your petition.
The best way to submit a petition is to go here, select Billing & Account and then select Payment issues.
If by 'sort it out' you mean deny the double billing and tell me to contact my bank, then yep, that's what they do
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Chronos Chi
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Posted - 2009.07.03 00:12:00 -
[76]
I started my account back in 2004 and have always paid in dollars and enjoyed a reasonable exchange rate until the recent global meltdown, when I bother to renew my subscription in November when it runs I will now have to pay in Euros.
The Americans pay $71.70 (ú43.73) for a 6 month subscription, Europe pays 71.70 EUR (ú61.24), now I may not be the sharpest knife in the draw but by my rudimentary maths skills I will be paying ú17.51 extra over a 6 month period, an extra ú2.92 a month.
Now I can hear all you shouting at me that that is less than a cheap pack of smokes, or a McDonalds meal, or in some places a pint of lager, but even so why should people in the UK:
A) be forced to pay in Euros when our native currency is pounds and, B) pay substantially more than our friends from across the pond.....
do we get anything more from the game, do we get better insurance when our ships go pop, do we train faster.....no!
Saying that I will still pay up come November so no you cant have my stuff
Chronos
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Zaand
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Posted - 2009.07.03 01:43:00 -
[77]
You guys need to hop on this double billing thing a little faster. Its no joke when you could cause a bunch of checks to bounce resulting in bounced check fees and overdraw fees. I was about $3 away from this happenning to me...lol Could add up to hundreds and hundreds and huge huge hassles very quick. Im suprised you arent taking this more serious and in a more expedient nature ccp.
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Kwanaioo
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Posted - 2009.07.03 07:10:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Zaand You guys need to hop on this double billing thing a little faster. Its no joke when you could cause a bunch of checks to bounce resulting in bounced check fees and overdraw fees. I was about $3 away from this happenning to me...lol Could add up to hundreds and hundreds and huge huge hassles very quick. Im suprised you arent taking this more serious and in a more expedient nature ccp.
This. Oh wait, CCP doesn't give a rat's wreck about their playerbase.
They'll have a rude awakening when VISA blocks them.
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Tezza Sweet
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Posted - 2009.07.03 11:52:00 -
[79]
hence Why now it's been 7 days since the suspended my account even though o have plenty of game time left 2 petitions and no reply to either
Someone remind me WTF we pay for cos I'm sure it's not to be treated like **** , but that's what is happening atm
here is an idea for ccp , take some of the gms making new staff and train then to sort out petition cos there sure as hell can't ne enough sorting out ATM if pol are waiting 4/5 days for even a MSG saying there looking into your issue
Singed 1 ****ed off player of 5 years
We know why ccp don't have a customer care telephone number , it would be busy 24/7 with issues
Though I thought there would be some sorta law saying there should have a number for billing issues
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K'thang
Gallente Ferengi Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.03 12:03:00 -
[80]
Edited by: K''thang on 03/07/2009 12:04:45
Originally by: Tezza Sweet We know why ccp don't have a customer care telephone number , it would be busy 24/7 with issues.
Well, people could always call the CCP Games office Even though they probably will tell you to contact via web-support, I am sure after the umpteenth thousand call some peed-off secretary would whip someone to make a public statement Never underestimate the power of secretaries!
Well, joke aside, @Wrangler what we the player base needs is for you or someone official to say the following:
We at CCP acknowledges that there are some difficulties like double-billing and other issues concerning our transition to a new billing system. We apologize for all the inconverience this has caused you, and we are working as hard as we can to rectify our mistakes.
This, and of course also doing it, is the reassurance most of us need. But when there are no clear, and I emphasize clear, statement from CCP people get a bit worried and with good reason.
So far, this thread has been extremely civilized and we the customers have shown great patience. But for every day that goes by without any official response the climate of this discussion grows more and more sour.
So pretty please, with sugar on top, either you or someone else within CCP say something straight out and clear about this.
Thank you. |
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digitalwanderer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.07.03 13:54:00 -
[81]
Still says the same thing...
I have received the Email,but still have 63 days left in my current subscription,and i can't update it until there's less than 30 days left to it.
What the hell is going on,seriously?.
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Zaand
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Posted - 2009.07.03 15:07:00 -
[82]
Looks like CCP needs a little help in the management department. If this were to happen at my company.. the person in charge of accounting would have his ass in the wringer... and people would be working until it was fixed. As my old boss used to say.. there are two things you dont want to mess with... a mans woman and a mans money. CCP you will lose credibility as a legitmate and trusted company if you screw with peoples real life cash.. better get your buts in gear and get it taken care of(charges reversed, etc..) before you ruin your name as a legitimate company to deal with financially. This isnt just a bug fix in your game that can wait..
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JeanMichel Bizarre
The Golden Apple Corps Discordia.
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Posted - 2009.07.03 16:20:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Zaand Looks like CCP needs a little help in the management department. If this were to happen at my company.. the person in charge of accounting would have his ass in the wringer... and people would be working until it was fixed. As my old boss used to say.. there are two things you dont want to mess with... a mans woman and a mans money. CCP you will lose credibility as a legitmate and trusted company if you screw with peoples real life cash.. better get your buts in gear and get it taken care of(charges reversed, etc..) before you ruin your name as a legitimate company to deal with financially. This isnt just a bug fix in your game that can wait..
this. ------ buy my music here or listen to it here |
Maximillian Pele
Caldari Keel Hauler's Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.03 17:03:00 -
[84]
There may be two seperate issues.
I did not recieve the email, but decided to check my credit card statements.
I have three accounts that are billed on different days of the month. For some reason each account was billed in June on the 1st. I went into account management and checked my sunscription details. Two of the three accounts show the old date as the next billing date in July, so no lost days and no problems there.
On the third account however the next billing date has been reset to the 1st. I was charged on the 1st (I checked online) and the next payment is shown as being due on 1st August.
So my billing went 3rd/15th May, 1st/1st June, 3rd/15th July on the correct ones but 27th May, 1st June, 1st July and with 1st August being the next billing meaning that I have lost 26 days on this account. I have petitioned and at least this problem can be fixed by simply changing the next billing date (rather than refunds).
I corp mailed and several others have similar errors.
So check those credit card statements people. What they don't know can't hurt us - CCP. |
K'thang
Gallente Ferengi Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.03 18:45:00 -
[85]
Edited by: K''thang on 03/07/2009 18:46:10
Originally by: Maximillian Pele So check those credit card statements people.
Yes, more and more people have noticed and more will once they check their accounts. What is so troubling is that CCP officially doesn't comment on this. I have attached a copy of my transactions with my petition so they can't ignore it. Yet there is no word, and I even tried email in addition to petition. Granted, there are many that have petitioned but by the feedback so far they are not getting anywhere either or are being brushed off.
In my email, to support, my bank's deadline for response was today. As the banks are closed on weekends I will wait until Monday, but then I will let them handle it from here.
What I can't understand is how they can deny double-billings to people when all electronic payments gets their own transaction reference numbers that can easily be traced. This whole matter is really absurd, and it keeps getting more so every day we do not hear anything.
It's sad, really. |
Lon Suder
black hearts Burning Souls
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Posted - 2009.07.04 11:10:00 -
[86]
hmmmm not sure if i want to update my billing info after seeing all the problems, plus the factor of changing to euros from dollars, easy enough to let this account just expire and go down to 1 account :)
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JeanMichel Bizarre
The Golden Apple Corps Discordia.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:35:00 -
[87]
Edited by: JeanMichel Bizarre on 06/07/2009 08:37:26 I will never, ever use the CCP billing service again. I have flirted with the idea of totally quitting EVE, but it's too much of an awesome game so I cannot. I will, however renew my sub via GTC's.
btw, it's day 6 since I filed my petition and I have yet to get any response. ------ choons |
K'thang
Gallente Ferengi Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:51:00 -
[88]
Originally by: JeanMichel Bizarre Edited by: JeanMichel Bizarre on 06/07/2009 08:37:26 I will never, ever use the CCP billing service again. I have flirted with the idea of totally quitting EVE, but it's too much of an awesome game so I cannot. I will, however renew my sub via GTC's.
btw, it's day 6 since I filed my petition and I have yet to get any response.
It's one week for me, today. I had this on two separate accounts, so I filed one petition for each thinking that was normal. Today I got a message on the petition I filed the last saying it was a double of the original and they closed it. The first one never got any comment.
I contacted my bank, and they said to give support one more day to sort it out before I filed the papers with them. So I'll give them another day.
I'll never quit EVE, even though I some times just idle and train skills. But I expect to be billed and handled properly. I've not had to petition much things before, but when I did it was always handled in a professional and reasonably fast manner. This, however, does not fall under that category.
Again, as has been mentioned before, some kind of official statement would have been expected. |
Legenda
Caldari Seraphin Technologies KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:16:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Legenda on 06/07/2009 12:19:40 Edited by: Legenda on 06/07/2009 12:18:49 Edited by: Legenda on 06/07/2009 12:17:44 3 Days ago i changed my payment method to "pay by cash" with Visa Electron for 1 month , cause i got tired of waiting for a response from CCP !!
I couldnt change my credit card detail before and after the 1st this month like they advised to do so in the e-mail i got when all this **** startet !
I had 48 days playtime left (thank god not more cause i used to pay once a year) Well my Account got opened but then i realize that my 30 + days i had left are gone . ? WTF ?
I thought they just add the 30 days i payed cash for to the days i had left but .., oh boy i was wrong !
Maybe it was writen somewhere you lose the days when changing payment method ,but still i feel i got ripped off!!
Good advise CCP ...
Start to care about your customers and stop telling lies or deniyng that you have a DAMN BIG problem here..
Leg
P.S what happened to the " Customers are allways right" thingie ....
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K'thang
Gallente Ferengi Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:34:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Legenda
3 Days ago i changed my payment method to "pay by cash" with Visa Electron for 1 month , cause i got tired of waiting for a response from CCP !!
I couldnt change my credit card detail before and after the 1st this month like they advised to do so in the e-mail i got when all this **** startet !
I had 48 days playtime left (thank god not more cause i used to pay once a year) Well my Account got opened but then i realize that my 30 + days i had left are gone . ? WTF ?
I thought they just add the 30 days i payed cash for to the days i had left but .., oh boy i was wrong !
Maybe it was writen somewhere you lose the days when changing payment method ,but still i feel i got ripped off!!
Good advise CCP ...
Start to care about your customers and stop telling lies or deniyng that you have a DAMN BIG problem here..
Leg
P.S what happened to the " Customers are allways right" thingie ....
Petition it. It is the same thing that happened with the double-billing really, except it happened to you when you changed payment method. You should not accept losing 30 days of your sub. |
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