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Bunzan Cardinal
Ouroboros Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.06.27 06:42:00 -
[1]
anyways just throwing this out here. How does everyone feel about a one time in a lifetime, or a one time every 2-3 years to redistribute your SP (or only 50% of your sp). I know quite a few newer players who have made mistakes on skills they trained up and not are stuck with skills that they dont use. I myself have this same problem when i was a younger player and flew caldari. I quit and came back to perfer minmatar as i then understood the game and its mechanics more, but i was stuck with 4 million sp in Missile Launcher Operation. TBH i would perfer a once per lifetime of a character use or a once every 3 year use as this is a much bigger change then redistributing attribute points.
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Admiral IceBlock
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.06.27 07:12:00 -
[2]
Well we have attributes remap once every year, so why not skill remp? 
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T'X
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Posted - 2009.06.27 07:59:00 -
[3]
Because this would just make people dump all the useless skills they trained and specialize them - so now everyone could be epic killing machines of doom.
You trained it knowing you couldnt go back - keep it that way.
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Bunzan Cardinal
Ouroboros Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.06.27 08:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Bunzan Cardinal on 27/06/2009 08:19:11
 Originally by: T'X
Because this would just make people dump all the useless skills they trained and specialize them - so now everyone could be epic killing machines of doom.
that all depends on how much sp you trained for skills other then what you specialize in. TBH most of the skills that we regret training happen when we are newbs. This is mainly to help solve that issue. Also with newer players coming in and with so many "regular" players with 20m+ sp, the newer players stand a lesser chance against all these specialized sp players (assuming they have half a brain to fit the ships correctly) especially when they have no clue what they are doing as far as what skills to train.
Quote:
You trained it knowing you couldnt go back - keep it that way.
something similar was said about attributes i believe. |
Oam Mkoll
Caldari
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.27 08:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: T'X
Because this would just make people dump all the useless skills they trained and specialize them - so now everyone could be epic killing machines of doom.
You trained it knowing you couldnt go back - keep it that way.
This.
There's a world of difference between optimizing SKILL TRAINING TIME using attributes and redistributing actual skill points. Some of the things which would happen:
1. Extreme specialization. You meet a guy in a ship = he probably has perfect skills for it.
2. Assigning roles. Once corporations and alliances can decide EXACTLY how many tacklers, cap pilots, probers etc. they want, they will start telling people to respec.
3. FotM to the extreme. All of a sudden everyone would start flying the 3 or 4 currently "best" ships and then whine after a nerf that they've "wasted" their skill redistribution. This is in fact no different from whining about "wasted" skills today but today it actually makes sense.
Those are obviously additional points to consider aside from the obvious: character development has consequences, you're shaping a specific character with a specific history. Attributes have always been secondary and easily manipulated (learnings, implants) but skills are something else.
Sorry, no support. |
JcJet
Caldari
Tungus Revolt
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Posted - 2009.06.27 10:30:00 -
[6]
No.
Well, onli if you lose 50% or more of redistributed SP.
Because when you have 5 million of useless sp, it's not just "oops", you spend monts on this... |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.06.27 12:24:00 -
[7]
No. This has been brought up before, and the answer is still no. |
rofflesausage
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Posted - 2009.06.27 12:40:00 -
[8]
No - terrible idea, sorry. |
Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.06.27 14:07:00 -
[9]
It's already in game, it's called the Character Bazaar.
Fighting for justice
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.06.27 14:53:00 -
[10]
you never know if you wouldnt need the skills later. so just keep them.
not support.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Coalition of Free Stars
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Posted - 2009.06.28 04:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
It's already in game, it's called the Character Bazaar.
This. |
Yahrr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.06.28 09:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
It's already in game, it's called the Character Bazaar.
This.
yup :) |
Bunzan Cardinal
Ouroboros Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.06.28 10:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Originally by: T'X
Because this would just make people dump all the useless skills they trained and specialize them - so now everyone could be epic killing machines of doom.
You trained it knowing you couldnt go back - keep it that way.
This.
There's a world of difference between optimizing SKILL TRAINING TIME using attributes and redistributing actual skill points. Some of the things which would happen:
1. Extreme specialization. You meet a guy in a ship = he probably has perfect skills for it.
2. Assigning roles. Once corporations and alliances can decide EXACTLY how many tacklers, cap pilots, probers etc. they want, they will start telling people to respec.
3. FotM to the extreme. All of a sudden everyone would start flying the 3 or 4 currently "best" ships and then whine after a nerf that they've "wasted" their skill redistribution. This is in fact no different from whining about "wasted" skills today but today it actually makes sense.
Those are obviously additional points to consider aside from the obvious: character development has consequences, you're shaping a specific character with a specific history. Attributes have always been secondary and easily manipulated (learnings, implants) but skills are something else.
Sorry, no support.
this post actually changed my mind on the subject. Pointed out exploits and issues that i didnt see at first. Good post.
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Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.06.28 11:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
There's a world of difference between optimizing SKILL TRAINING TIME using attributes and redistributing actual skill points. Some of the things which would happen:
1. Extreme specialization. You meet a guy in a ship = he probably has perfect skills for it.
Ok. Where is the problem here? If you meet me you will meet extreme specialization.
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
2. Assigning roles. Once corporations and alliances can decide EXACTLY how many tacklers, cap pilots, probers etc. they want, they will start telling people to respec.
Do you honestly believe that and people will comply?
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
3. FotM to the extreme. All of a sudden everyone would start flying the 3 or 4 currently "best" ships and then whine after a nerf that they've "wasted" their skill redistribution. This is in fact no different from whining about "wasted" skills today but today it actually makes sense.
So is this the fault of SP remap or the players being ******ed? No player with a sense of brain would remap to FOTM. They would remap to what they want to fly. Of course some will remap to FOTM but that is their problem and not the system.
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
Those are obviously additional points to consider aside from the obvious: character development has consequences, you're shaping a specific character with a specific history. Attributes have always been secondary and easily manipulated (learnings, implants) but skills are something else.
Sorry, no support.
That is where you are wrong. Attributes are pretty much the same catagory. There is the same amount of whines for SP that there is for attributes. The choice of attributes too, is considered development process and the choice you make is the consequence you live with. But with Attiributes remap you can just role over. No different from SP remap.
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Camel ofDoom
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Posted - 2009.06.28 17:00:00 -
[15]
This would change the economy a lot... FotM and an instant increase in market competition with wasted SP put into industry/science... you train what you need.
I would support a different kind of SP redistribution though:
If a skill is less than 10% completed, you can put the SP into another skill... those few thousand SP that are lying around in useless/currently useless skills, with limitless uses, and maybe a 10% penalty. OFC the SP would have to be recalculated based on the time needed to train the skill (SP/min) (would keep people from training a specific skill for which they have good attributes and putting the SP into another skill)
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Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.06.28 20:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bunzan Cardinal
How does everyone feel about a one time in a lifetime, or a one time every 2-3 years to redistribute your SP (or only 50% of your sp).
No. |
Verys
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.06.28 22:23:00 -
[17]
There is no valid reason why you should be able to spend skillpoints again, if you trained some useless skills then that be it.
Redistributing skillpoints towards skills you don't have is:
A) not fair towards others who have trained the skills and are happy with the way they are and have no skillpoints they want to redistribute.
B) not fair towards new players as they as well just like you will have to train the skills to actually get something while your taking the shortcut. Your time in eve should not mean you get an horrendous advantage over the new guys (as seen with exponential skill training times).
Sure you will spend a few sp in a few skills you never use but this shouldn't be millions otherwise it is your own damn fault.
Let's drop the idea of matrix-style skill injection now please.
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Aastarius
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Posted - 2009.06.29 12:29:00 -
[18]
or maybe a penalty is added whereby the cost is 2 to 1, i.e. you lose 50% of the SP you want to redistribute.
Either way don't believe I could support this
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killerbitsch
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Posted - 2009.06.29 12:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: JcJet
No.
Well, onli if you lose 50% or more of redistributed SP.
Because when you have 5 million of useless sp, it's not just "oops", you spend monts on this...
THIS way it can be supported, and TBH had the same idea not too long ago. with really "useless" skills that 50% loss is not that much, while the boost of it is still nice, but that will gonna stop people just switching their complete skill tables every day. 30+% is enough imo, but 50% sounds just as good.
so: conditional support from me (sp loss!!!)
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Uronksur Suth
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.06.29 21:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Izo Alabaster
Originally by: Bunzan Cardinal
How does everyone feel about a one time in a lifetime, or a one time every 2-3 years to redistribute your SP (or only 50% of your sp).
No.
Also, No.
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Wasted Skillpoints
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Posted - 2009.06.29 21:42:00 -
[21]
I want to be able to unlearn mining lvl1, trade 3, etc. I don't even care about the sp, I just don't want an ugly skillsheet. Have a 2 day waiting period like the 1 day for character deletion to protect hacked accounts etc.
This ability would be quite similar to real life, I often get incredibly drunk and forget how to do things.
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Oam Mkoll
Caldari
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.29 21:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Ok. Where is the problem here? If you meet me you will meet extreme specialization.
Yes, because you consciously devoted real time to train skills to 5. I'd love getting hit by that maxed dps. People who didn't train those skills shouldn't be just as good.
Real-time training is the only measure of dedication in EVE. Thank god it's not grinding or playtime per week. Let's not take that away.
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Originally by: Oam Mkoll
2. Assigning roles. Once corporations and alliances can decide EXACTLY how many tacklers, cap pilots, probers etc. they want, they will start telling people to respec.
Do you honestly believe that and people will comply?
It's happening in so many different MMOs. Just look at World of Warcraft and the 'required specialization' drama. When respecialization (resetting the talent build) was available freely, people were forced to play a specific role or not be allowed into guilds at all. Not all guilds did that but the majority of the best ones? Yup. And it worked on so many unhappy people. Blizzard did their best to remove that problem but WoW has different ways of player progression which EVE lacks.
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
So is this the fault of SP remap or the players being ******ed? No player with a sense of brain would remap to FOTM. They would remap to what they want to fly. Of course some will remap to FOTM but that is their problem and not the system.
Players being ******ed is the reason behind SP remaps.
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
That is where you are wrong. Attributes are pretty much the same catagory. There is the same amount of whines for SP that there is for attributes. The choice of attributes too, is considered development process and the choice you make is the consequence you live with. But with Attiributes remap you can just role over. No different from SP remap.
Worst case, you put all the attribute points into charisma and want to train gunnery. You always have the option of implants and learnings to boost your other attributes. And you can work to train your dream ships anyway. Attributes were never choosing one thing over the other, they were a matter of preference. And the world of New Eden makes it plain that 'attributes' can be manipulated by in-game in-character means.
Skill training on the other hand IS a final choice. You can never, ever train two skills in the same amount of real time. It's exclusive and retains 'story' and unique traits of a character. Completely reassigning skills would make us play faceless, irrelevant chars like in a typical FPS where each character can use any gun.
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