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Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 14:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP's plan to sell datacores from FW LP stores disrespects people who have spent years planning, training, and missioning to get standings for maximal research points. It also changes the entire fabric of training and overall game strategy.
...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.
That being said, I've noticed that existing research points for datacores that are dropping in research point price may actually be worth more after the change:
Say you have 150,000 research points in Amarrian Starship Engineering, you could get 1000 datacores at the current rate. If you wait until after the change, you will be able to get 1500 datacores, it seems.
Say the hypothetical sale price you could get was 100000 isk per datacore, then
before the change: 1000 datacores x 100000 isk = 100,000,000 isk
after the change: (1500 datacores x 100000 isk) - (1500 datacores x 10000 isk fee per datacore) = 135,000,000 isk or 150,000,000 from datacore sales - 15,000,000 in datacore purchase fees = 135,000,000 isk
**************************************************
Finally, I guess the new formula for research point accumulation will be the same as it is now, except any field multiplier other than 1 will be changed to 1.
Independent thinking is not encouraged in a professional Army. It is a form of mutiny. Obedience is the supreme virtueBritish Prime Minister Lloyd George, in his 'War Memoirs'-á |

Haulie Berry
80
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 15:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote: CCP's plan to sell datacores from FW LP stores disrespects people who have spent years planning, training, and missioning to get standings for maximal research points. It also changes the entire fabric of training and overall game strategy.
...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.
It's an MMO. The first rule is that the rules are going to change. That's one of the bigger aspects of the genre as a whole.
Think of it as internet space Calvinball. |

Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 16:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Think of it as internet space Calvinball.
Can i use this as my sig now? Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |

Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 16:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hmmm... Where to start, where to start...
Over-dramatic much?
Quote:Say you have 150,000 research points in Amarrian Starship Engineering, you could get 1000 datacores at the current rate. If you wait until after the change, you will be able to get 1500 datacores, it seems.
Nobody paying attention will wait until after; they'll cash in the RPs, and make iskies from the paranoid and risk-averse. I don't see a problem here. Also the 100k ISK per datacore is fantasy-land. I'd love to only pay 100k for datacores that I consume the most of.
Quote:...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.
This is CCP's property: they can choose to do whatever they want with Eve Online. People who take issue with that have three options: 1) Quit. 2) Failquit. 3) Design, implement, and market your own MMO with the working pricniple that you'll never, ever change the game whatsoever in any way that any single person will every consider "Changing the rules." Oh, and good luck with that.
This thread = much ado about nothing. (And yes, I'm that old) |

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 16:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:It's an MMO. The first rule is that the rules are going to change. That's one of the bigger aspects of the genre as a whole.
Think of it as internet space Calvinball
I can argue for days on both sides including yours. But don't make the mistake of telling me what to think. Independent thinking is not encouraged in a professional Army. It is a form of mutiny. Obedience is the supreme virtueBritish Prime Minister Lloyd George, in his 'War Memoirs'-á |

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 16:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:Hmmm... Where to start, where to start...
Maybe you could give us some more of your awesome, mind-blowing wisdom. Like tell me again how much effort I didn't put into this game to get where I am today. That's a good one. Independent thinking is not encouraged in a professional Army. It is a form of mutiny. Obedience is the supreme virtueBritish Prime Minister Lloyd George, in his 'War Memoirs'-á |

Dersk
90040045
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 18:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:how much effort
Irrelevant. The developers cannot make a practice of avoiding change in an area where people have put effort into it as they would be left with no room to make change at all. Your comments about disrespect, cheating, and your effort don't communicate a reasoned argument, but a self-centered emotionally driven whine.
DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!!! <- I'm actually laughing there. |

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 20:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dersk wrote:Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:how much effort Irrelevant. The developers cannot make a practice of avoiding change in an area where people have put effort into it as they would be left with no room to make change at all. Your comments about disrespect, cheating, and your effort don't communicate a reasoned argument, but a self-centered emotionally driven whine. DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!!! <- I'm actually laughing there.
My God. The genius. The sheer willpower. The strength of character. I can't believe you're not sitting in a castle somewhere, ruling the world. To think all this time I never knew you existed. Please forgive me, I guess I didn't understand that YOU are the guiding light of the universe, and YOUR ideas are the only ones that matter. Let me wipe this excrement off your hands, so you can bless us all once again.
Independent thinking is not encouraged in a professional Army. It is a form of mutiny. Obedience is the supreme virtueBritish Prime Minister Lloyd George, in his 'War Memoirs'-á |

Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 20:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote: ...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.
I wonder how Eve would look if it never changed. I didn't play during the first 5 years or so, but I bet it would be very dead without all of the changed (or added for that matter) content. Just learn to adapt to changes, it's what you should expect when playing MMOs. |

Dasola
Rookies Empire Rookie Empire
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 20:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bluestream3 wrote:Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote: ...and just so you know, where i come from changing the rules in the middle of the game is cheating.
I wonder how Eve would look if it never changed. I didn't play during the first 5 years or so, but I bet it would be very dead without all of the changed (or added for that matter) content. Just learn to adapt to changes, it's what you should expect when playing MMOs.
Lets see few things off my head i heard...
Capital ships in highsec No wormholes Hardly any 0.0 space Quite big number less ships to choose No invention,no T2 BPO lottery either ... [Insert something funny or smart here] |

Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 21:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEH6fvU8i7o I'll just leve that there. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
|

Haulie Berry
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 21:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:Dersk wrote:Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:how much effort Irrelevant. The developers cannot make a practice of avoiding change in an area where people have put effort into it as they would be left with no room to make change at all. Your comments about disrespect, cheating, and your effort don't communicate a reasoned argument, but a self-centered emotionally driven whine. DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!!! <- I'm actually laughing there. My God. The genius. The sheer willpower. The strength of character. I can't believe you're not sitting in a castle somewhere, ruling the world. To think all this time I never knew you existed. Please forgive me, I guess I didn't understand that YOU are the guiding light of the universe, and YOUR ideas are the only ones that matter. Let me wipe this excrement off your hands, so you can bless us all once again.
You don't seem to actually be refuting anything he said, here, and flowery prose is clearly not your forte. |

Dare Knight
The 0ffice of Secret Intelligence
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 21:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:Quote:Hmmm... Where to start, where to start...
Maybe you could give us some more of your awesome, mind-blowing wisdom. Like tell me again how much effort I didn't put into this game to get where I am today. That's a good one.
In one single blow, you've taken your very well thought out and calculated topic of discussion (and yes, I'm being completely serious here, it's well thought out, the math is done, and you are obviously passionate about the topic to go that far with it, and I respect you for it), your reputation overall, and any serious discussion that could be had, and completely trashed it with a garbage comment.
People are going to flame. People are going to troll. People are going to make misplaced comments and spout off at the mouth.
Welcome to forums.
What makes or break your thread is how you react. It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. |

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 22:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bluestream3 wrote: I wonder how Eve would look if it never changed. I didn't play during the first 5 years or so, but I bet it would be very dead without all of the changed (or added for that matter) content. Just learn to adapt to changes, it's what you should expect when playing MMOs.
Understood. We need some change. Sometimes lots of it. So what do you think, wait to cash in the Amarrian Starship Engineering research points until the change, and get a ~50% bonus to the number of datacores (there is also the matter of the fee...though I'm not really clear if that fee is for the FW loyalty point store only, or if it now applies to research agent purchases as well)? Independent thinking is not encouraged in a professional Army. It is a form of mutiny. Obedience is the supreme virtueBritish Prime Minister Lloyd George, in his 'War Memoirs'-á |

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 22:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dare Knight wrote:
In one single blow, you've taken your very well thought out and calculated topic of discussion (and yes, I'm being completely serious here, it's well thought out, the math is done, and you are obviously passionate about the topic to go that far with it, and I respect you for it), your reputation overall, and any serious discussion that could be had, and completely trashed it with a garbage comment.
People are going to flame. People are going to troll. People are going to make misplaced comments and spout off at the mouth.
Welcome to forums.
What makes or break your thread is how you react.
Thanks for the lesson in forum etiquette. Gee, without your input we would have remained blissfully ignorant of reality. Another piece of info: sometimes when you mess with people, they mess back. ...Not to pry into your vast wealth of knowledge or anything, but how do you plan to deal with the datacore changes? Have you got any research points saved up? Maybe some spools of unbroken thread on a little shrine in your bedroom? Independent thinking is not encouraged in a professional Army. It is a form of mutiny. Obedience is the supreme virtueBritish Prime Minister Lloyd George, in his 'War Memoirs'-á |

Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
103
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 23:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:My God. The genius. The sheer willpower. The strength of character. I can't believe you're not sitting in a castle somewhere, ruling the world. To think all this time I never knew you existed. Please forgive me, I guess I didn't understand that YOU are the guiding light of the universe, and YOUR ideas are the only ones that matter. Let me wipe this excrement off your hands, so you can bless us all once again.
If you were honestly trying for discussion here, you clearly lost all respect as soon as you started getting insulting and disrespectful. (See what I did there?) |

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:[If you were honestly trying for discussion here, you clearly lost all respect as soon as you started getting insulting and disrespectful. (See what I did there?)
That's a great observation. Can you see that when you look in the mirror? Independent thinking is not encouraged in a professional Army. It is a form of mutiny. Obedience is the supreme virtueBritish Prime Minister Lloyd George, in his 'War Memoirs'-á |

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote: You don't seem to actually be refuting anything he said, here, and flowery prose is clearly not your forte.
Thank the Gods everyone can see that having a brain IS your forte. Otherwise you wouldn't be here helping to clear up the Factional Warfare quarterback sneak datacore nerf. Hmmm, did I say IS? Whoops. Forgot a flowery word there... like NOT. Independent thinking is not encouraged in a professional Army. It is a form of mutiny. Obedience is the supreme virtueBritish Prime Minister Lloyd George, in his 'War Memoirs'-á |

Dersk
90040045
66
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 03:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
The question I have is if a Pee-Wee Herman line would increase or decrease the quality of discussion here. |

Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 03:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Maybe this FW LP store datacore sales thing would have looked a little more realistic if the FW LP store was actually purchasing those datacores from the players who are earning research points and redeeming them for datacores. My guess is that opening another datacore faucet is going to tend to flood the bathroom. I hope that does not happen.
Using FW LP to facilitate additional datacores entering the marketplace is akin to the new CCP's McDonalds mentality. The learning skills nerf, now another skill nerf, datacores, are all attacks on long-term strategy. They want everyone killing each other, and they want them killing each other right now. Anything that stands in the way of that message must be squelched, it would seem.
I can argue for the other side too, as I have said. Changes are needed, and change can be exciting. This datacore change should have been all over the eve news, but instead, they hid it in Factional Warfare, which I have cared less about in the past. I had to hear about it from a friend, and purely by chance.
As with anything else, the intellect of Eve players is a bell curve. There is a mob mentality in play. That is why the voice of reason, of long-term wisdom and ideaology is seldom heard, seldom seen, and seldom acted upon. It seems the louder your mouth, the more you get your way.
Maybe I'm an anachronism. It could be. Maybe Eve Online is not part of my future. Time will tell, I guess. I plan to keep training up science skills for mechanical engineering and others to level 5 when possible.
You may understand if you have 2 accounts, and each of your toons has six research agents, most at level 4. You probably know there is still more training and/or missioning to be done in order to maximize your RP/day.
I am getting used to CCP chipping away at the things I love in Eve. It used to be, it was all new and cool to me. The changes they made didn't matter so much... but then I took an arrow in the knee. Independent thinking is not encouraged in a professional Army. It is a form of mutiny. Obedience is the supreme virtueBritish Prime Minister Lloyd George, in his 'War Memoirs'-á |

Thawed Corpse
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 05:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
I wonder how many of these toons saying "things change, get used to it", would be okay with the elimination or nerfing of all the old BPOs which were created under the old invention lottery?
Things do change, but why do they always change in such as way as to not anger all of the most wealthy players in eve?
|

clixor
Celluloid Gurus
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thawed Corpse wrote:I wonder how many of these toons saying "things change, get used to it", would be okay with the elimination or nerfing of all the old BPOs which were created under the old invention lottery?
Things do change, but why do they always change in such as way as to not anger all of the most wealthy players in eve?
I think we all need to take a step back and put things in perspective.
I just collected my cores. On 1 char i had 500k RP, 100RP/core, 5000 cores. At 200k that is 1b. Now, i have several chars, but not all with so many RP. Let's say in the end i get a value of 3b (a bit positive as DC might as well crash before i can sell them all).
3b is not bad, but considering all the effort that went into it and years worth of gathering the RP, plex spent, that's pretty ****** AS IT IS and with some effort that can be made in a week with T2 production.
My point: DC weren't a goldmine before in the old and new situation. If people are complaining about 90m or so income p/m being nerfed (per char), well.. i think you get my point. |

Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
133
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 12:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote: It's an MMO. The first rule is that the rules are going to change. That's one of the bigger aspects of the genre as a whole.
Things are going to change, yea, thats fine.
But they dont have to change without a good reason, and CCP Soundwave hasnt made any effort to justify or rationalise these changes.
Why datacores and FW, explain that CCP and we might have a basis for understanding.
|

Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
106
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ten Bulls wrote:Haulie Berry wrote: It's an MMO. The first rule is that the rules are going to change. That's one of the bigger aspects of the genre as a whole.
Things are going to change, yea, thats fine. But they dont have to change without a good reason, and CCP Soundwave hasnt made any effort to justify or rationalise these changes. Why datacores and FW, explain that CCP and we might have a basis for understanding.
As I've commented before, CCP is beginning to push hard to get people out of high and into low/null... How this fits into their "MMO" mantra is beyond me, but whatever... |

beor oranes
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
I can see where you are concerned but if you look at Eve as a whole the rules have changed so many times this one is trivial. I might feel massive to you as it 'might' affect your income on a significant level (I'm assuming this is where you get a lot of your isk from). But this is just like them rebalancing Vangard Incursion sites, the Sanctum nerf, Drone Region changes (have you seen the price of T1 hulls since then?) or a whole list of other things. In a long running MMO the rules are going to change just as the developer rebalances the game, tweaks the things they believe need changing and generally tries to improve the game as a whole.
At first the market will go a bit crazy and then after a few months it will settle, then we will see how much it has affected the prices of datacores. You might find that through FW LP its not that profitable to redeem datacores (we don't know if it will be or not) and so people may not do it because there are other things that are better to redeem. So this will mean that RP is still the best way to get datacores and it might even mean that the prices go up. Wait and see, if its not a good way to make the majority of your isk then change the way you make isk and have this as an addition. There is a lot more out there in Eve than R&D agents.
What people are trolling you for is your general negativity and the tone of you post, not the actual content. You are assuming that this change can only be bad (even though you have tried to show the 'other' side of the argument), which it might not be.
If you really want to see how CCP can negatively affect the game for certain players find a titan pilot (or a former one) and have a chat to them. |

beor oranes
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thawed Corpse wrote:I wonder how many of these toons saying "things change, get used to it", would be okay with the elimination or nerfing of all the old BPOs which were created under the old invention lottery?
Things do change, but why do they always change in such as way as to not anger all of the most wealthy players in eve?
Erm...you weren't around before invention right? The price of T2 goods back then was so much higher than it is now, when they changed the lottery and introduced invention the prices crashed hard (from 500mil a hulk to 100mil, yes now they have gone up but that has nothing to do with T2 BPO's or Invention but with Tech). And secondly; the recent Titan nerf directly affected the wealthy/old players in Eve, many have quit or just simply sold their ships.
Yes they never change anything that affects wealthy players... |

Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 16:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote: CCP's plan to sell datacores from FW LP stores disrespects people who have spent years planning, training, and missioning to get standings for maximal research points. It also changes the entire fabric of training and overall game strategy.
If you spent years planning, training and missioning for research agents you are doing something very wrong. I think it took me a month or 2 per character to train, and mission run to get level 4 research agents. (And this was me playing a couple of days per week.) Not to mention I got a goodly amount of isk and faction for my trouble. That said I make a lot more isk on market trades and PI. Sure this change is going to impact my cores income, but I still have use for the skills. You can make a fair bit buying BPOs and researching them in station. (People say there aren't slots, but there are lots that have modest wait times in HS not to mention solts one jump into LS.)
|

Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 02:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar wrote:...people who have spent years planning, training, and missioning to get standings for maximal research points....
Years? Seriously?
You really need to rethink how you approach things. |
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