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[Proposal] Make cloaked ships in corp/fleet visible to one another

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Kaylan Jahlar Minmatar Industrial Limited	Posted - 2009.06.29 19:30:00 - [1] Since you get uncloaked as soon as you come within 2000 meters of another object, it would be a good thing if we could see cloaked ships that are in our corp or fleet as if they were not cloaked (or with a limited transparency) and that they show on the overview as well. This would make Stealth Bomber operations a little easier. Just try to coordinate a wing of Stealth Bomber to get in position in order to alpha-strike the same target, without risking coming too close from your own wingmates... It can be a little tricky if you can't even see them! We should at least be able to see their bracket in space and in the overview!
Kaylan Jahlar Minmatar Industrial Limited	Posted - 2009.06.29 19:31:00 - [2] What he said.
De'Veldrin Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.06.29 20:19:00 - [3] I concur. Having never flown a cloaked ship, I didn't realize this was a problem, but it seems like a huge liability to me. If you need an RP backstory call it computer overlay based on Fleet transponder positioning or something. --Vel Experience is what you get right after you need it.
Project 001	Posted - 2009.06.29 22:41:00 - [4] This would be a great addition, and really help coordinate SBs and recon ships. Even if just the bracket appeared, and the ship remained cloaked it would be usable.
Iwant Urstuff Amarr Iwant Urstuff Corp	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:28:00 - [5] No thank you. I can just see the Mittinanni whispering into his mic, "Go left BroSef no harder left, idjut you went past him!!!"
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:42:00 - [6] I'm a fan of cloaking. I think cloaking is already nicely balanced. No change needed. No support. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:47:00 - [7] Why do you have friendlies on your pvp overview? "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2009.06.30 00:17:00 - [8] Spies anyone? Cloaked ships are cloaked.
Korerin Mayul The R.I.T.U.A.L Corp	Posted - 2009.06.30 11:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Iwant Urstuff No thank you. I can just see the Mittinanni whispering into his mic, "Go left BroSef no harder left, idjut you went past him!!!" supported for this very reason!
Allahs Warrior Gallente Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests	Posted - 2009.06.30 12:15:00 - [10] how about a tickbox option to show yourself or not to show yourself (To fleet only) instead? Itd be like "broadcast signal to fleet" or something so you'd show up as an empty purple bracket.
Kaylan Jahlar Minmatar Industrial Limited	Posted - 2009.06.30 13:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Allahs Warrior how about a tickbox option to show yourself or not to show yourself (To fleet only) instead? Itd be like "broadcast signal to fleet" or something so you'd show up as an empty purple bracket. That'd be great, but that's only one way to do it. Seriously people, I really don't see how this would break balance. It just makes no sense to me that you can't even see (not visually, not on scanner, not in the overview) cloaked ships that are on your own side (in your corp or in your fleet). There's just no way to maneuver a gang of cloaked ships properly if you can't even see them!
Biterno Sintaph Gallente Suddenly Failure Stellar Union	Posted - 2009.06.30 13:42:00 - [12] Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Spies anyone? Cloaked ships are cloaked. Quoted for truth.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.30 13:58:00 - [13] Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Originally by: Allahs Warrior how about a tickbox option to show yourself or not to show yourself (To fleet only) instead? Itd be like "broadcast signal to fleet" or something so you'd show up as an empty purple bracket. That'd be great, but that's only one way to do it. Seriously people, I really don't see how this would break balance. It just makes no sense to me that you can't even see (not visually, not on scanner, not in the overview) cloaked ships that are on your own side (in your corp or in your fleet). There's just no way to maneuver a gang of cloaked ships properly if you can't even see them! If fleet members can see them, they must be broadcasting something. If they are broadcasting something, it makes sense that ships not in the friendly fleet could also find them. Cloaking is currently balanced. It doesn't need boosted, it doesn't need nerfed. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Kaylan Jahlar Minmatar Industrial Limited	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:10:00 - [14] Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 30/06/2009 14:10:47 Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 30/06/2009 14:10:36 Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Originally by: Allahs Warrior how about a tickbox option to show yourself or not to show yourself (To fleet only) instead? Itd be like "broadcast signal to fleet" or something so you'd show up as an empty purple bracket. That'd be great, but that's only one way to do it. Seriously people, I really don't see how this would break balance. It just makes no sense to me that you can't even see (not visually, not on scanner, not in the overview) cloaked ships that are on your own side (in your corp or in your fleet). There's just no way to maneuver a gang of cloaked ships properly if you can't even see them! If fleet members can see them, they must be broadcasting something. If they are broadcasting something, it makes sense that ships not in the friendly fleet could also find them. Cloaking is currently balanced. It doesn't need boosted, it doesn't need nerfed. It's neither a nerf nor a buff, it's common sense. You could say that cloaking fields all have a coded frequency, and that your fleet has the key to see through it. You don't have to broadcast anything.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar It's neither a nerf nor a buff, it's common sense. How is adding an ability that isn't currently available NOT a buff? Perhaps we're working with different definitions of the word buff... ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Maxsim Goratiev Imperial Tau Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:57:00 - [16] Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 30/06/2009 14:57:34 Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar It's neither a nerf nor a buff, it's common sense. How is adding an ability that isn't currently available NOT a buff? Perhaps we're working with different definitions of the word buff... So improving visual appearence of lasers would be a buff to energy weapon? HOw is making it comfortable a buff? It's like saying that if they make it so refining window does not lagg it's a buff to refining. Fix Destroyers
Kaylan Jahlar Minmatar Industrial Limited	Posted - 2009.06.30 15:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar It's neither a nerf nor a buff, it's common sense. How is adding an ability that isn't currently available NOT a buff? Perhaps we're working with different definitions of the word buff... It's not a buff because it doesn't add any advantage. It's only practical and logical to do it. Stealth Bombers wouldn't be able to deal more damage or cloak longer that way. It doesn't change any of their attributes either. So this is not a buff. It's like calling an option to hide all cans in space a "container nerf". Come on. Think about it for more than one second...
Syringe R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.06.30 15:23:00 - [18] I've never had an issue with this and would rather my fleet mates didn't see where I was. I've been able to effectively coordinate stealth ops with good communication. --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question.
Kaylan Jahlar Minmatar Industrial Limited	Posted - 2009.06.30 15:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Syringe I've never had an issue with this and would rather my fleet mates didn't see where I was. I've been able to effectively coordinate stealth ops with good communication. Why wouldn't you want your fleet to see where you are anyway? How would this change your gameplay? It's one thing to vote a suggestion down because it would break your own gameplay somehow, but it's another to vote it down just because you personally wouldn't benefit from it or wouldn't use it.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.30 16:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar It's neither a nerf nor a buff, it's common sense. How is adding an ability that isn't currently available NOT a buff? Perhaps we're working with different definitions of the word buff... It's not a buff because it doesn't add any advantage. It's only practical and logical to do it. Stealth Bombers wouldn't be able to deal more damage or cloak longer that way. It doesn't change any of their attributes either. So this is not a buff. It's like calling an option to hide all cans in space a "container nerf". Come on. Think about it for more than one second... If cloaked fleet members not seeing each other's location is a disadvantage, the removal of that disadvantage is adding an advantage. Not all buffs are pure numbers. The ability to know where cloaked fleet members are could be a significant tactical advantage for a recon, black-ops, stealth bomber group. It's a buff and it's not needed. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange Coalition of Free Stars	Posted - 2009.06.30 16:34:00 - [21] If you want to do something in this vein, say that the reason for the decloak is sensor emissions from the object you're near being too strong to evade, and since cloaked ships don't do the sensor emissions thing, cloaked ships don't detarget each other. It'd also mean you could finally remove the asinine gas-cloud decloaks. Seeing each other on overview, though, seems kind of silly.
Farrqua Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Why wouldn't you want your fleet to see where you are anyway? I guess you do not get the idea of spies in your fleet compromising your position. You want to have the ability to see your cloaked mate for your fleet ops so you can coordinate a SB strike? ok stop step back and think about it. You have spies in fleet. Most of the time anyway. ok always. Now what stops the spies from outing the cloakers. Answer me that. What prevents the cloaker to be compromised? No absolutely not.
Kaylan Jahlar Minmatar Industrial Limited	Posted - 2009.06.30 19:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Farrqua Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Why wouldn't you want your fleet to see where you are anyway? I guess you do not get the idea of spies in your fleet compromising your position. You want to have the ability to see your cloaked mate for your fleet ops so you can coordinate a SB strike? ok stop step back and think about it. You have spies in fleet. Most of the time anyway. ok always. Now what stops the spies from outing the cloakers. Answer me that. What prevents the cloaker to be compromised? No absolutely not. If you always have spies in your fleet, then your corporation really has a problem. Spying is part of the game, and having this feature or not wouldn't change it in any way. There's a ton of ways to counter spying (for example, force every member in your corp to give their api key so you can list any alt not in your corp). I don't think this is a valid argument, sorry.
Admiral IceBlock Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2009.06.30 19:32:00 - [24] This is HILARIOUS! Too **ing many people complain about **! The idea is great and make coordination easier. Either have a BROADCAST location or "Show bracket for fleet members" in gang menu. Want to know more?
Imogen Vane	Posted - 2009.07.19 21:00:00 - [25] This would be very much appreciated.
Syberbolt8 Oblivion Industries DEFI4NT	Posted - 2009.07.19 21:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Farrqua Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Why wouldn't you want your fleet to see where you are anyway? I guess you do not get the idea of spies in your fleet compromising your position. You want to have the ability to see your cloaked mate for your fleet ops so you can coordinate a SB strike? ok stop step back and think about it. You have spies in fleet. Most of the time anyway. ok always. Now what stops the spies from outing the cloakers. Answer me that. What prevents the cloaker to be compromised? No absolutely not. I would agree with you, but if you have spies in your fleet, and its that big an issue, they can warp to you. I mean you are in fleet. lets not be dense here. Supported. If anything only cloaked ships can see other cloaked ships in the same fleet. Support the DEAD HORSE POS's

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