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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:45:00 -
[1]
Hi all, I'm designing a POS to sit in a wormhole and serve as a mining base. The idea will be to mine for several days or a few weeks, making trips to highsec only when the occasional direct wormhole opens. I've read ArcDragon's great guide and I like the idea of parking a freighter in the wormhole in an offlined Ship Maintenance Array, to fly ore to market only when there's a direct highsec wormhole.
Ommitting defenses and armaments, my POS setup is as follows:
Structure (Status)
Advanced Mobile Laboratory (Online)
Ammunition Assembly Array (Online)
Corporate Hangar Array (Online)
Corporate Hangar Array (Online)
Drone Assembly Array (Online)
Refining Array (Online)
Ship Maintenance Array (Online)
Ship Maintenance Array (Offline)
----------------------------------------------
The question is, first of all, am I making any newbie mistakes? Are two Corporate Hangar Arrays way too much or way too few? Do I need a silo for the refining array? (The plan is not to refine or manufacture much in the hole, only drones or ammo if i need them.) Should I have more modules and keep them stored offline?
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Msgerbs
Gallente
Imperial Assualt Guild
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:49:00 -
[2]
Why the lab?
"Isn't the Eiffel Tower an early prototype of a Minmatar Battleship?" --Illectroculus Defined |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:57:00 -
[3]
It was either the lab or another gun, and I thought, this might come in handy.
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:17:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
It was either the lab or another gun, and I thought, this might come in handy.
I don't see how it would unless you really intend to haul potentially valuable blueprints in and out of wormhole space. Labs are useful, of couse, but if this is just going to be set up for a temporary mining base, I don't see the point of having a lab there, especially considering that they're not cheap.
I'd pick the extra gun, personally.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:36:00 -
[5]
The version I'm currently planning has an Intensive Refining Array, 2x Corporate Hangar Arrays, 1x Ship Maintenance Array (adjust as needed depending on the number of pilots and ships), 1x Ammunition Assembly Array, 1x Equipment Assembly Array (offline) and 1x Small Ship Assembly Array (offline). The ship and equipment arrays are just safety fallbacks in case things go to hell, can manufacture a scan ship and probe launcher to find a way out, and probably don't need them at all.
I figured we could haul in appropriate BPCs and make ammo for mineral compression purposes to cut down on trips out. We weren't going to be using a freighter for the shipping, though, but an Orca.
______________________________________________________
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Mona X
Caldari
Polish Task Forces
C0VEN
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Posted - 2009.07.06 00:03:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mona X on 06/07/2009 00:05:25
For Mining ops forget about corporate hangars and take Large Assembly Arrays or Advanced Large Assembly.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.06 00:07:00 -
[7]
Drone/ammo assembly arrays are useless. Just bring a shit ton in when you setup and restock on occasion. You do not need to waste minerals on manufacturing them.
Most people bring these assembly arrays because they want to feel "cool" and "self sufficient". The reality is that its stupid and wasteful.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.06 00:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gavin DeVries
The version I'm currently planning has an Intensive Refining Array, 2x Corporate Hangar Arrays, 1x Ship Maintenance Array (adjust as needed depending on the number of pilots and ships), 1x Ammunition Assembly Array, 1x Equipment Assembly Array (offline) and 1x Small Ship Assembly Array (offline). The ship and equipment arrays are just safety fallbacks in case things go to hell, can manufacture a scan ship and probe launcher to find a way out, and probably don't need them at all.
I figured we could haul in appropriate BPCs and make ammo for mineral compression purposes to cut down on trips out. We weren't going to be using a freighter for the shipping, though, but an Orca.
This is precisely why you bring a bunch of extra T1 fitted scan ships/have scanning alts in system. You seriously do not need any assembly arrays unless you are deep in WH space and truly do not plan on having access to high sec for a very long time. Or if you plan on building capitals. Assembly arrays are generally a wasted investment and are rarely used by those that install them at their POSs.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.07.06 01:58:00 -
[9]
I'll echo the sentiments of others in this thread, Joe: for a W-space POS all you really need is a ship maintenance array to store and fit your ships, a corporate hangar to store ore, gas and salvage, and a big ship to carry stuff in and out.
Note that an Orca fills a bunch of roles here: mobile storage for your Hulk, covops frigate and gas mining cruiser, along with a conveniently large hauler in which to carry your ill-gotten gains back to empire. All this, and it's only one pilot too!
Suddenly you don't need the SMA or the hangar array - the entire POS can be dedicated to being your refuge in w-space. A hangar would be useful to store fuel though.
And remember to anchor two or three times the number of guns that your POS can actually support.
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Mining Bunnz
Equatorial Industires
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Posted - 2009.07.06 05:22:00 -
[10]
The ammo assembly array is very useful. Primarily to build cap boosters, as they are a very inefficient item to haul in, volume wise, compared to an array, a bpo and a batch of minerals. And given you are bringing those in anyway, ammo bpo's become an obvious choice as well, as you can build what you need, when you need it and just truck in minerals which are easy to buy in almost any place in empire you happen to pop out of.
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.06 15:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gavin DeVries
I figured we could haul in appropriate BPCs and make ammo for mineral compression purposes to cut down on trips out. We weren't going to be using a freighter for the shipping, though, but an Orca.
How efficient is this?
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.06 20:50:00 -
[12]
Another newbie question: if I offline a corporate hangar, or a ship maintenance array, are the contents still safely stored there? (The scenario I'm envisioning is offlining these modules to activate more guns in a fight.) Can i access the contents when offline?
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Bilbo II
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.07 01:57:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Bilbo II on 07/07/2009 01:57:55
Edited by: Bilbo II on 07/07/2009 01:57:42
You can take stuff out, but not put it in, when offline.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.07.07 04:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
How efficient is this?
Check out the Citadel torpedoes (Doom, Purgatory, etc). I think the compression ratio is about 20:1 for tritanium. Someone who knows how to wrangle the EVE database dump should be able to find a blueprint that leads to higher compression.
The key is finding stuff that uses a higher volume of minerals than the final product consumes. There are plenty of items which will give you high tritanium compression, I haven't researched compression for other minerals since I'm mostly interested in moving vast quantities of tritanium to market.
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.07 16:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
How efficient is this?
Check out the Citadel torpedoes (Doom, Purgatory, etc). I think the compression ratio is about 20:1 for tritanium. Someone who knows how to wrangle the EVE database dump should be able to find a blueprint that leads to higher compression.
The key is finding stuff that uses a higher volume of minerals than the final product consumes. There are plenty of items which will give you high tritanium compression, I haven't researched compression for other minerals since I'm mostly interested in moving vast quantities of tritanium to market.
I guess my question was more about the efficiency of building something and then scrapping it. What percent of minerals can you reclaim when you scrap the torpedoes?
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.07 18:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
How efficient is this?
I guess my question was more about the efficiency of building something and then scrapping it. What percent of minerals can you reclaim when you scrap the torpedoes?
All of them, less those consumed by the blueprint inefficiency (which is reduced through ME research). The real question though is: should you be refining the ores in wspace? Refining arrays have really crappy efficiencies. Perhaps it would be smarter to use a Rorqual and compress the ore, then ship the compressed ore out to an Empire station to refine.
MDD
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.07.07 19:48:00 -
[17]
That works if you're deep enough in to bring in a Rorqual (and have one; we don't). Losing 25% of the minerals to an Intensive Refining Array isn't good, but the option is making 20x as many trips in haulers to bring out the raw ore. It's 8000 m3 per refining batch of Arkonor, if I remember correctly.
______________________________________________________
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.07 19:58:00 -
[18]
Hmm, I don't think I'm brave enough to risk a Rorqual on this project at this stage. I'll probably mine with alt, he in a Hulk and I in my Impel, until I grow my corp. Hauling to highsec with a freighter seems feasible and fairly safe, assuming such things are possible. I need to go into WH space for a while just to look around and determine the lay of the land before I set up my operations.
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.07.07 20:36:00 -
[19]
I don't think you'll find a wormhole direct to hi-sec that can take a freighter. Each wormhole has limits, both on the total mass that can pass through the hole before it collapses and the max mass a single ship can be to use the wormhole. Class 1 wormholes won't take anything bigger than a battlecruiser. The Class 2s I've seen so far have had either 1 or 2 billion kg total mass limits and 300 million kg at once limits, so an Orca would make it there but not a freighter.
______________________________________________________
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Iece Quaan
Caldari
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2009.07.07 21:10:00 -
[20]
Honestly.. after mining myself in wspace.. I wouldn't bother with a refining array at all.
Hauler trips 'process' ore by taking it to a station in kspace faster than the refining arrays break it down, with no loss.
At least for high end ore, I think it makes more sense to truck it out. Unless you're planning on building in wspace or mining trit. If you had to refine at a pos, I'd use multiple arrays. The time to process a refine job really slows things down. It's too bad it can't be automated..
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.07.07 22:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
... mineral compression...
How efficient is this?
Well, here's what I worked out the other night. 1 batch of Inferno Torpedoes takes 3590 trit, 2645 pyerite, 26 mex, 2 isogen, 2 nocx, and 1 zydrine before modified for inefficiencies in your Production Efficiency skill or the material level of the blueprint. 1 batch of any battleship torpedo is 100 rounds, each .1 m3 in size, or 10 m3 per batch. Overall, inferno torpedoes give you a mineral compression of 6.266:1 as a result. Mjolnirs are better if you just want trit: 3532 trit, 320 pyerite, and 3 megacyte per batch.
Citadel Torpedoes are even better. 1 batch of Purgatory Torpedoes takes 35900 trit, 26450 pyerite, 260 mex, 20 isogen, 20 nocx, and 10 zydrine (exactly 10x what Inferno Torps need) but only results in 3x the space of the result. Overall it's 20.88:1 compression. Again, Thors are better if you're just worried about trit.
The problem with Citadels from my point of view are that I already have the torpedo BPOs, where I'd have to spend between 60 and 90 million each for the Citadel Torp BPOs or buy copies off contracts. You do, of course, need good refining skills to get the minerals back once you get into hi-sec space with them.
A couple of nights ago we were running combat anomalies in a Class 2 wormhole, that hole had 8 gravimetric sites in it, each of which had 10-20k of Arkonor, Bistot, and Crokite in them. Just assuming 10,000 Ark per site is 1.28 million m3 of ore, that's a lot of trips out when you only have 1 Orca plus a few industrials/transports.
______________________________________________________
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Johnny Santos
Beginning of the End
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Posted - 2009.07.08 10:36:00 -
[22]
The wh my corp lives in usually after 2-4 trips both ways on a fresh wh with a orca will cause a collapse. Ity 5 (which I dont use anymore, sold char.) when I did have it and the char... resulted in a lot of travel whereas a orca with max skills/rigs and expanders could carry 40k in corp hangar and 50k+ in cargo bay.
Even with easy access to high sec its more convenient to do most of our things at the pos's we have up. If you can afford it and have the manpower: run multiple large towers ;)
When we had only one up we would have the extra arrays stored and setup what we needed when we needed it... including ammo and drone arrays... sleepers on any lvl eat up a lot of both.
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Agaroth Ethriael
Caldari
Versitech Enterprise
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Posted - 2009.07.08 21:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Johnny Santos
The wh my corp lives in usually after 2-4 trips both ways on a fresh wh with a orca will cause a collapse. Ity 5 (which I dont use anymore, sold char.) when I did have it and the char... resulted in a lot of travel whereas a orca with max skills/rigs and expanders could carry 40k in corp hangar and 50k+ in cargo bay.
i was mining in a wormhole today, and i was doing the maths on what ship that would be the best hauler. i have an orca, but when you're in a class 2 wormhole i dont think its the best hauler. here is what i found out:
Maximum Jumpable Mass: 300.000.000 Kg
Maximum Mass Capacity: 2.000.000.000 Kg
Now the Orca has a mass of 250.000.000 Kg which means that it can take 8 trips through the wormhole (4 trips back and forth, 2.000.000.000 divided with 250.000.000 = 8)
My orca currently have 85k + 40k cargospace. thats 125k.
125.000 * 4 = 500.000 m3 so half a million m3 is what the orca can haul in a class 2 WH.
lets look at the Iteron in the same wormhole.
the Iteron v's Mass is 11.750.000
2.000.000.000 divided with 11.750.000 = 170 divided with 2 = about 85. thats 85 trips back and forth.
now. a rigged Iteron V can take about 35k if i remember correcyly.
so 35000 * 85 = 2.975.000
now thats alot more than the orca.
the only downside is...85 jumps =P and that you dont get the mindlinks from the orca.
if my math is totally wrong, let me know please.
"I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability."
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900) |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.08 21:45:00 -
[24]
I can fly an Impel, it carries about 27000m3 without rigs. It'd take a heck of a lot of trips to haul out just a few hours worth of mining.
Another question: How tough are the Sleeper rats that defend the gravimetric sites in wormholes? Does it depend on the wormhole class or the gravimetric site class?
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Agaroth Ethriael
Caldari
Versitech Enterprise
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Posted - 2009.07.08 21:52:00 -
[25]
The tree hours i was there, i didnt see any sleeperrats at all. but yes they are hard as hell to take down. i'm not sure a hulk could tank them. and yes i think they get harder the higher class wormhole you are in.
"I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability."
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900) |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.08 21:58:00 -
[26]
I read that once you kill them, they don't respawn. That's why you didn't see any. I think. Maybe there never were any rats there to begin with?
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
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