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dual turrets need to be changed

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Arleonenis	Posted - 2004.09.24 08:30:00 - [31] Iagree but with some tweeking: -twice fire rate -use appropriate smaller ammo -same dmg mod and range as single gun version -tracking at 75% of single gun version (to show the large mount) -signature radius increased of 150% of single version -it should use ship bonuses If this would be done that way it wouldnt be overpowered weapon, it would be able to track smaller targets but its insane rate of fire would be partialy compenstaed by lower hitting chance, its a big ship gun it should fire ****loads of bullets, and yes it would do bigger dot than biggest guns but guess what: biggest guns is long range weapon, this babys would have much smaller range.
Arleonenis	Posted - 2004.09.24 08:30:00 - [32] Iagree but with some tweeking: -twice fire rate -use appropriate smaller ammo -same dmg mod and range as single gun version -tracking at 75% of single gun version (to show the large mount) -signature radius increased of 150% of single version -it should use ship bonuses If this would be done that way it wouldnt be overpowered weapon, it would be able to track smaller targets but its insane rate of fire would be partialy compenstaed by lower hitting chance, its a big ship gun it should fire ****loads of bullets, and yes it would do bigger dot than biggest guns but guess what: biggest guns is long range weapon, this babys would have much smaller range.
Vailin Snow	Posted - 2004.09.24 08:35:00 - [33] I agree, "dual" right now is a bit off. I think it should be literaly like mounting 2 guns in 1 mount. So a cruiser could mount 2x frigate guns in 1 mount. Make the stats thesame as the frigate gun version Make it twise as fast (your firing 2 guns) Make it double the grid and CPU requirements Make the range thesame as the frigate guns but with double the cap consumption. Slower tracking because your moving 2 guns as 1, but not as slow as single medium turrets. And for god sakes make them use small ammo for cruiser and med ammo for battleship versions. That way you could maybe even use these guns on assault frigates which makes a lot more sence.
Vailin Snow	Posted - 2004.09.24 08:35:00 - [34] I agree, "dual" right now is a bit off. I think it should be literaly like mounting 2 guns in 1 mount. So a cruiser could mount 2x frigate guns in 1 mount. Make the stats thesame as the frigate gun version Make it twise as fast (your firing 2 guns) Make it double the grid and CPU requirements Make the range thesame as the frigate guns but with double the cap consumption. Slower tracking because your moving 2 guns as 1, but not as slow as single medium turrets. And for god sakes make them use small ammo for cruiser and med ammo for battleship versions. That way you could maybe even use these guns on assault frigates which makes a lot more sence.
Tindel	Posted - 2004.09.24 15:15:00 - [35] Yeah a dual 250 should be 2 x 250mm, and a large gun with largegun fitting reqs and using large gun skills. But using medium ammo. Y helo thar
Tindel	Posted - 2004.09.24 15:15:00 - [36] Yeah a dual 250 should be 2 x 250mm, and a large gun with largegun fitting reqs and using large gun skills. But using medium ammo. Y helo thar
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.09.24 16:59:00 - [37] I agree fully with this. The same applies to dual 150s...why use med ammo? Id even go as far as the Quad light laser, why use a med cyrstal? Imagine 1 mount with 4 light lasers. 4 cyrstals perhaps is overkill, but makes more sence given the description. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.09.24 16:59:00 - [38] I agree fully with this. The same applies to dual 150s...why use med ammo? Id even go as far as the Quad light laser, why use a med cyrstal? Imagine 1 mount with 4 light lasers. 4 cyrstals perhaps is overkill, but makes more sence given the description. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Larno	Posted - 2004.09.24 17:55:00 - [39] Originally by: Arleonenis -signature radius increased of 150% of single version Signature radius has NOTHING to do with guns. It is to do with the type of ships itself, and since a couple of patches ago... MWD's aswell. TRACKING has to do with guns. Tracking + Signature Radius = Accuracy
Larno	Posted - 2004.09.24 17:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Arleonenis -signature radius increased of 150% of single version Signature radius has NOTHING to do with guns. It is to do with the type of ships itself, and since a couple of patches ago... MWD's aswell. TRACKING has to do with guns. Tracking + Signature Radius = Accuracy
IRONxRchxenson	Posted - 2004.09.24 18:01:00 - [41] what about dual energy then, should they then use two crystals? Also, I want to see real stats, not just "it does the same damage." With these talks no one even talks about the range added to the larger turret. Backed into a corner I think not. If you take the dual rate of fire, take the GIMP on range too.
IRONxRchxenson	Posted - 2004.09.24 18:01:00 - [42] what about dual energy then, should they then use two crystals? Also, I want to see real stats, not just "it does the same damage." With these talks no one even talks about the range added to the larger turret. Backed into a corner I think not. If you take the dual rate of fire, take the GIMP on range too.
Foxbat	Posted - 2004.09.24 21:28:00 - [43] Tracking should be lower, it is harder to move two guns then one, but enough to be an effective anti-cruiser weapon, and range should be a little better since they have more power to accelerate the shell with.
Foxbat	Posted - 2004.09.24 21:28:00 - [44] Tracking should be lower, it is harder to move two guns then one, but enough to be an effective anti-cruiser weapon, and range should be a little better since they have more power to accelerate the shell with.
Selim	Posted - 2004.09.25 00:07:00 - [45] Do you halfwits even listen to me? 1 250mm railgun does slightly less damage over time than a 425mm railgun. a turret that did the DOT of 2 250mm railguns would be extremely powerful and unbalancing. It would never work. They're fine the way they are now, they just dont function the way their name and description would make you think.
Selim	Posted - 2004.09.25 00:07:00 - [46] Do you halfwits even listen to me? 1 250mm railgun does slightly less damage over time than a 425mm railgun. a turret that did the DOT of 2 250mm railguns would be extremely powerful and unbalancing. It would never work. They're fine the way they are now, they just dont function the way their name and description would make you think.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.09.25 00:15:00 - [47] No no Selim you got it all wrong, first you come up with cool names, then you give everything stats based on the cool names. Who cares about balance. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.09.25 00:15:00 - [48] No no Selim you got it all wrong, first you come up with cool names, then you give everything stats based on the cool names. Who cares about balance. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Galton Grimm	Posted - 2004.09.25 00:28:00 - [49] Originally by: Selim Do you halfwits even listen to me? Saying "it wouldn't work" is not compelling. Like I said (maybe you weren't listening) it could be a dual 200mm for the sake of game balance. About tracking speed, remember it's going to use more grid than a single, it would use twice the grid. If N units of grid is enough to power and torque a single 200 turret, then 2N units of grid is enough to power and torque two of them. The whole point of equipping a dual smaller turret is to have better tracking speed than a single larger turret.
Galton Grimm	Posted - 2004.09.25 00:28:00 - [50] Originally by: Selim Do you halfwits even listen to me? Saying "it wouldn't work" is not compelling. Like I said (maybe you weren't listening) it could be a dual 200mm for the sake of game balance. About tracking speed, remember it's going to use more grid than a single, it would use twice the grid. If N units of grid is enough to power and torque a single 200 turret, then 2N units of grid is enough to power and torque two of them. The whole point of equipping a dual smaller turret is to have better tracking speed than a single larger turret.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.09.25 00:40:00 - [51] Does game balance ring any bells? The name doesn't matter. It could be called weird bubble popper, doesn't matter, it's a name, it's got little if anything to do with the stats. It's a cool sounding name, and a model with 2 barrels. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.09.25 00:40:00 - [52] Does game balance ring any bells? The name doesn't matter. It could be called weird bubble popper, doesn't matter, it's a name, it's got little if anything to do with the stats. It's a cool sounding name, and a model with 2 barrels. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Selim	Posted - 2004.09.25 01:00:00 - [53] Originally by: Gariuys Does game balance ring any bells? The name doesn't matter. It could be called weird bubble popper, doesn't matter, it's a name, it's got little if anything to do with the stats. It's a cool sounding name, and a model with 2 barrels. WTB Wierd Bubble Popper II. Amen, anyway.
Selim	Posted - 2004.09.25 01:00:00 - [54] Originally by: Gariuys Does game balance ring any bells? The name doesn't matter. It could be called weird bubble popper, doesn't matter, it's a name, it's got little if anything to do with the stats. It's a cool sounding name, and a model with 2 barrels. WTB Wierd Bubble Popper II. Amen, anyway.
Alowishus	Posted - 2004.09.25 11:31:00 - [55] You're (the original poster) stupid and wrong. 1) The Dual 250mm does more DOT than a 250mm. 2) The advantage of the dual, battleship class version of a gun is that you still get the battleship bonus if it has one that applies to turrets. 3) The gun is not supposed to litterally be a dual version of a 250mm. If it was, it would do more DOT than any large turret except a few of the blasters. Good thinking. Use your ******* head. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Alowishus	Posted - 2004.09.25 11:31:00 - [56] You're (the original poster) stupid and wrong. 1) The Dual 250mm does more DOT than a 250mm. 2) The advantage of the dual, battleship class version of a gun is that you still get the battleship bonus if it has one that applies to turrets. 3) The gun is not supposed to litterally be a dual version of a 250mm. If it was, it would do more DOT than any large turret except a few of the blasters. Good thinking. Use your ******* head. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Galton Grimm	Posted - 2004.09.25 17:25:00 - [57] Edited by: Galton Grimm on 25/09/2004 17:48:56 "This battleship-sized weapon is a double-barreled version of the cruiser class 250mm railgun" - CCP weapon description "The gun is not supposed to litterally be a dual version of a 250mm" - Alowishus Oh of course, I see, thanks for clearing that up Alowishus. Can I rely on you in the future to interpret CCP's other item descriptions for me as well? Thanks man! At any rate, I did the math. It is in no way a dual 250mm railgun, so the problem is the name. It should be called "300mm Railgun". Same with the Dual 150mm, it should be called something like 175mm Railgun. Mainly the problem is the descriptions don't fit the stats of the current weapons. small lead 5.4 base shield damage 5.7 base armor damage (5.4 + 5.7) / 2 = 5.55 average base damage medium lead 10.8 base shield damage 11.4 base armor damage (10.8 + 11.4) / 2 = 11.1 average base damage large lead 21.6 base shield damage 22.8 base armor damage (21.6 + 22.6) / 2 = 22.2 average base damage -- small -- 75mm Gatling Rail range 6,000 falloff 3.000 capacity 2 activation 1.67 tracking 0.13 sig res 40 rof 2.60 dmg 1.5x small lead dmg 5.5 23.08 shots/minute 8.25 dmg/shot 190.41 dmg/minute 125mm Railgun range 9,000 falloff 5,000 capacity 0.8 activation 2.44 tracking 0.085 sig res 40 rof 3.25 dmg 2x small lead dmg 5.5 18.46 shots/minute 11 dmg/shot 203 dmg/minute 150mm Railgun range 12,000 falloff 6,000 capacity 0.4 activation 3.78 tracking 0.07 sig res 40 rof 4.25 dmg 2.75x small lead dmg 5.5 14.12 shots/minute 15.13 dmg/shot 213 dmg/minute -- medium -- Dual 150mm Railgun range 12,000 falloff 6,000 capacity 8 activation 5 tracking 0.042 sig res 125 rof 3.90 dmg 1.5x medium lead dmg 11.1 15.38 shots/minute 16.65 dmg/shot 256 dmg/min 200mm Railgun range 21,600 falloff 10,000 capacity 4 activation 7.33 tracking 0.028 sig res 125 rof 4.88 dmg 2.0x medium lead dmg 11.1 12.29 shots/minute 22.2dmg/shot 272 dmg/minute 250mm Railgun optimal range 24,000 falloff 12,000 capacity 2 activation 11.33 tracking 0.023 sig resolution 125 rof 6.38 dmg 2.75x medium lead dmg 11.1 9.40 shots/minute 30.53 dmg/shot 287 dmg/minute -- large -- Dual 250mm Railgun capacity 16 range 24,000 falloff 12,000 activation 15 tracking 0.0175 sig res 400 rof 5.85 dmg 1.5x large lead dmg 22.2 10.26 shots/minute 33.3 dmg/shot 342 dmg/minute 350mm Railgun range 36,000 falloff 20,000 capacity 8 activation 25 tracking 0.01167 sig res 400 rof 7.31 dmg 2x large lead dmg 22.2 8.21 shots/minute 44.4 dmg/shot 365 dmg/minute 425mm Railgun range 48,000 falloff 24,000 capacity 4 activation 34 tracking 0.009625 sig res 400 rof 9.56 dmg 2.75x large lead dmg 22.2 6.28 shots/minute 61.05 dmg/shot 384 dmg/minute
Galton Grimm	Posted - 2004.09.25 17:25:00 - [58] Edited by: Galton Grimm on 25/09/2004 17:48:56 "This battleship-sized weapon is a double-barreled version of the cruiser class 250mm railgun" - CCP weapon description "The gun is not supposed to litterally be a dual version of a 250mm" - Alowishus Oh of course, I see, thanks for clearing that up Alowishus. Can I rely on you in the future to interpret CCP's other item descriptions for me as well? Thanks man! At any rate, I did the math. It is in no way a dual 250mm railgun, so the problem is the name. It should be called "300mm Railgun". Same with the Dual 150mm, it should be called something like 175mm Railgun. Mainly the problem is the descriptions don't fit the stats of the current weapons. small lead 5.4 base shield damage 5.7 base armor damage (5.4 + 5.7) / 2 = 5.55 average base damage medium lead 10.8 base shield damage 11.4 base armor damage (10.8 + 11.4) / 2 = 11.1 average base damage large lead 21.6 base shield damage 22.8 base armor damage (21.6 + 22.6) / 2 = 22.2 average base damage -- small -- 75mm Gatling Rail range 6,000 falloff 3.000 capacity 2 activation 1.67 tracking 0.13 sig res 40 rof 2.60 dmg 1.5x small lead dmg 5.5 23.08 shots/minute 8.25 dmg/shot 190.41 dmg/minute 125mm Railgun range 9,000 falloff 5,000 capacity 0.8 activation 2.44 tracking 0.085 sig res 40 rof 3.25 dmg 2x small lead dmg 5.5 18.46 shots/minute 11 dmg/shot 203 dmg/minute 150mm Railgun range 12,000 falloff 6,000 capacity 0.4 activation 3.78 tracking 0.07 sig res 40 rof 4.25 dmg 2.75x small lead dmg 5.5 14.12 shots/minute 15.13 dmg/shot 213 dmg/minute -- medium -- Dual 150mm Railgun range 12,000 falloff 6,000 capacity 8 activation 5 tracking 0.042 sig res 125 rof 3.90 dmg 1.5x medium lead dmg 11.1 15.38 shots/minute 16.65 dmg/shot 256 dmg/min 200mm Railgun range 21,600 falloff 10,000 capacity 4 activation 7.33 tracking 0.028 sig res 125 rof 4.88 dmg 2.0x medium lead dmg 11.1 12.29 shots/minute 22.2dmg/shot 272 dmg/minute 250mm Railgun optimal range 24,000 falloff 12,000 capacity 2 activation 11.33 tracking 0.023 sig resolution 125 rof 6.38 dmg 2.75x medium lead dmg 11.1 9.40 shots/minute 30.53 dmg/shot 287 dmg/minute -- large -- Dual 250mm Railgun capacity 16 range 24,000 falloff 12,000 activation 15 tracking 0.0175 sig res 400 rof 5.85 dmg 1.5x large lead dmg 22.2 10.26 shots/minute 33.3 dmg/shot 342 dmg/minute 350mm Railgun range 36,000 falloff 20,000 capacity 8 activation 25 tracking 0.01167 sig res 400 rof 7.31 dmg 2x large lead dmg 22.2 8.21 shots/minute 44.4 dmg/shot 365 dmg/minute 425mm Railgun range 48,000 falloff 24,000 capacity 4 activation 34 tracking 0.009625 sig res 400 rof 9.56 dmg 2.75x large lead dmg 22.2 6.28 shots/minute 61.05 dmg/shot 384 dmg/minute
Alowishus	Posted - 2004.09.25 18:03:00 - [59] Originally by: Galton Grimm It is in no way a dual 250mm railgun, so the problem is the name. No it's not, because nobody cares. Except you I guess. Want a cookie? Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Alowishus	Posted - 2004.09.25 18:03:00 - [60] Originally by: Galton Grimm It is in no way a dual 250mm railgun, so the problem is the name. No it's not, because nobody cares. Except you I guess. Want a cookie? Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000

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