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El Liptonez
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Posted - 2009.07.06 12:54:00 -
[1]
Edited by: El Liptonez on 06/07/2009 12:59:41 So just few days ago, the "T3-fixing" Apocrypha 1.3 hit Tranquility, and I'd really like to hear some opinions on what that patch changed and what it didn't change. I'm not really satisfied with the patch tbh. It tried to fix something very broken in a way that is too simple. Some ideas that have been realized aren't that bad. For example the drop rates of datacores and the increment of runs on reverse engineered blueprints. So they fixed the first isk annihilator. And actually those two were the only good things that changed something.
The drop rates of Neurovisual Input Matrixes have been increased. Actually I'd like to know from other people, if they really noticed a change. For me those now drop even less often than before 1.3. Still this "fix" lead to their crash in prices, making T3 stuff cheap for a while. Now we see them going through the roof again, almost reaching their former 8m mark.
Another issue is discussed in this thread. Linkage I don't know if or if not there have been changes to the Carbon-86 Epoxy Resin or not, still this material/their materials are too expensive, it's too complicating to get access to these gas types. With the Scandium Metallofullerene prices slowly dropping, the Neurovisual Input Matrixes and the Carbon-86 are left to ruin the whole market for T3 stuff.
After the patch, everyone thought that T3 is now fixed, the prices for subsystems and especially cruisers dropped drastically, leading to approx. 50 cruisers being sold a day (about 300-400m depending on race). Now I'm looking at the market again, seeing prices ranging from 350m to 450m, which is actually like before 1.3. Just that a few hundred more people got a T3 cruiser now, which they don't want to blow up anyway. The most favored (most useful) subsystems skyrocketed again, getting a T3 cruiser not anywhere near to the desired 300m mark.
It's not even possible to sell components/hulls/subsystems cheaper, because building stuff makes you lose isk, instead selling the raw materials gives the most isk. So stuff will get even more expensive.
I really don't think that this patch changed a lot, it didn't make a difference. Just like I already said, some more people got an expensive ship now.
So what do you other people think about the T3 situation? Should CCP bring another patch, which maybe increases drop rates by 100%? Make them reduce material requirements? Make gases easier to access? Leave it as it is, the T3 ship as an unintended isk sink? Make it possible so that reverse engineering doesn't spill out random subsystems?
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Chrysalis D'lilth
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:41:00 -
[2]
Main issue I see is the cost of neurovisual input matrix.
Post patch, these fell immediately to 2.5m per unit - i'm guessing this is largely due to panic selling after people read the patch notes.
These prices have steadily risen and increased 100% in price sine then and are now selling for over 5m isk each (closer to 6m).
For a hull, which requires 26 of these, this represents a build cost increase of over 50m isk (closer to 75m).
Unless people are hoarding these, their simply are not enough to supply the current demand - hence prices will rise.
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:47:00 -
[3]
Impatient tyke aren't you?
Actually yes the NIMs drop rate increased. The problem is that it did not increase enough to balance the rest of the changes. Datacore prices have indeed tanked prety hard. This is a good thing since this reduces the RE component of T3 costs.
Carbon86 is no longer used in power conduits. This does indeed help as the c320 is not used in such disproportionate amounts. Getting this gas is not as much of an issue as you posit however. Anyone who knows how to access the deeper wormhole systems (either directly in the case of 0.0 residents or indirectly in the case of high/low sec residents) can get it with targeted operations.
A lot of T3 producers are still getting the gears going again after the operational pauses of the pre-patch.
As far as the quantity on the market goes, you thought prices would drop immediately?!? It will take much more time for prices to drop on T3 than a single week. Although the prices are high, the quantities are still small enough on the popular ones that there's a lot of manipulation going on. It will take quite a bit longer for the changes to percolate through to the end product.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:54:00 -
[4]
the patch was only last week, you're not going to see results immediately you know
Prices have crashed substantially already. Before the changes the Accelerated Ejection Bay subsystem was anything upto 600m ISK, but just yesterday it was only 115m
Gas prices are dropping rapidly also
T3 Production is actually quite cheap, but it's complicated and SP-intensive to do so, so not too many are being built but the demand is huge, so prices stay high.
As more people get into T3 production (and they will, because it's really profitable ATM) prices will go down even further. Increasing drop rates won't really help at this point IMO.
- Contagious - |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.07.06 14:10:00 -
[5]
A Tengu with subs that cost 1.4b just before the patch was down to 940m yesterday so it has been quite a drop in price already. If you are looking at buy order prices the drop is even bigger.
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ollobrains
THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.07.06 15:11:00 -
[6]
well most high sec into wspace holes then onlead to another high sec system.
Theres much much less high to low and high to null sec links. And wormholes arent going 4-8 deep anymore they are 3 at most. Good for some for those of us looking to hide and pray or just get lost it aint so good
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Psade
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Posted - 2009.07.06 16:26:00 -
[7]
The cost of getting useful blueprint runs has absolutely plummeted. I've run a mere 2 c4 radars since patch, which netted about 650 datacores. Between that and the run increase for good relics, that part of production has definitely been slashed.
However, prices still aren't going to be -that- low, and the reason has been mentioned. RE costs went down 10-fold, but neurovisual matrix demand/supply ratio has actually increased. The drop rate simply was not increased enough, and too many are required to build T3 components. Some other salvage types still have no value because of this discrepancy.
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Moose Balzak
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Posted - 2009.07.06 21:37:00 -
[8]
All Apoc 1.3 Fixes for T3 Production were good except for one. Neurovisual Input Matrix drop rates are FUBAR. This one item drives 60%+ of the cost of everything.
Even if they fix that drop rate, they will likely have to increase the drop rate of nanoribbons as well otherwise you will just trade one issue for another.
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touch myboobies
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Posted - 2009.07.06 21:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Moose Balzak All Apoc 1.3 Fixes for T3 Production were good except for one. Neurovisual Input Matrix drop rates are FUBAR. This one item drives 60%+ of the cost of everything.
Even if they fix that drop rate, they will likely have to increase the drop rate of nanoribbons as well otherwise you will just trade one issue for another.
Industry talk makes me hot.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.07.06 21:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Moose Balzak All Apoc 1.3 Fixes for T3 Production were good except for one. Neurovisual Input Matrix drop rates are FUBAR. This one item drives 60%+ of the cost of everything.
Even if they fix that drop rate, they will likely have to increase the drop rate of nanoribbons as well otherwise you will just trade one issue for another.
As i can see it right now , cost of this piece of salvage is an only reason why you should go kill sleepers instead of doing lvl4 ( speaking only of normal cobat sites).
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.07 14:58:00 -
[11]
It was nice when tech 3 dropped to around 315 mill each though, now you can't get them for under 450 mill it seems.
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