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Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.11 15:38:00 - [31] It's a good thing I pay attention to about 1% of the responses to my posts. Reality has nothing to do with some of the responses. Muti-Tanked Caracals? I haven't been in a Caracal in 7-8 month's and never multi-tanked. And some of you people seem to want to pin all their drug and alchohol problems on anyone writing in the forum. I don't regularly use either but you idiots that are flying on 25% of a brain think what you like. I do appreciate the thoughtful responses that help me work out a problem so it's just a filtering process. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Jack Airron Gallente Setenta Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.11 17:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Aus Dog It's a good thing I pay attention to about 1% of the responses to my posts. Reality has nothing to do with some of the responses. Muti-Tanked Caracals? I haven't been in a Caracal in 7-8 month's and never multi-tanked. And some of you people seem to want to pin all their drug and alchohol problems on anyone writing in the forum. I don't regularly use either but you idiots that are flying on 25% of a brain think what you like. I do appreciate the thoughtful responses that help me work out a problem so it's just a filtering process. you're a moron
Grek Forto Unforseen Consequences	Posted - 2009.07.11 17:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Jack Airron Originally by: Aus Dog It's a good thing I pay attention to about 1% of the responses to my posts. Reality has nothing to do with some of the responses. Muti-Tanked Caracals? I haven't been in a Caracal in 7-8 month's and never multi-tanked. And some of you people seem to want to pin all their drug and alchohol problems on anyone writing in the forum. I don't regularly use either but you idiots that are flying on 25% of a brain think what you like. I do appreciate the thoughtful responses that help me work out a problem so it's just a filtering process. you're a moron QFT Grek Forto Yarring Blog
Esamir	Posted - 2009.07.11 20:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Aus Dog I was referring to the fact that Blaster ammunitions' use of the cap is a percentage instead of a fixed amount. Given that some ammo states -50% cap usage, did you really think that there could be ammo that uses up half your ship's capacitor to fire one shot? Really?
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2009.07.11 20:20:00 - [35] Edited by: Derek Sigres on 11/07/2009 20:23:05 Originally by: Kismo Edited by: Kismo on 07/07/2009 23:54:40 Eve is a thinking person's game in a similar way to Magic is. There's a deck building phase (ship fitting), and there's a play phase. They're quite different and being brilliant at one doesn't mean that you'll be good at the other. In fact, they're even more similar because there's largely standard decks/fits that get passed around. No, I haven't played MTG in a long time. I suppose I should also mention that gross imbalances in the game no more make Eve less of a thinking game than Magic (or even Chess). They simply change the metagame you should play around. I think the MTG link is a pretty good one to be honest. When building ones ship (or deck) you are trying to use a limited amount of space (card count or slots) to try and eliminate as many weaknesses as possible or maximize your strengths. At least half the battle is won or lost before anybody ever undocks because even a good player is going to be crippled by a bad setup. The actual combat phase works about the same. In Magic you're at the mercy of the draw in the same way that we're at the mercy of the unknown in Eve. A good player can mitigate the problems in either arena but at the end of the day luck will inevitably turn against all of us. Most of Eve is about playing the odds. The best any of us can do is try and reduce the number of scenarios in which we'll be absolutely screwed in, both through clever design and skilled flying. That said, the OP's bit about blasters is a bit. . . confusing. If I were the OP I would have instead pointed to the MWD which DOES consume a cap percentage simply by being installed. A 100 MN MWD will consume (simply through installation) significantly more cap on an Amarrian ship than say a Minmatar ship, even though it provides the exact same amount of thrust and so on.
Roland Deschaines Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.11 20:43:00 - [36] Either a 1/10 troll, or this: Originally by: Esamir Given that some ammo states -50% cap usage, did you really think that there could be ammo that uses up half your ship's capacitor to fire one shot? Really?
Toxif	Posted - 2009.07.11 23:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Kismo Edited by: Kismo on 07/07/2009 23:54:40 Eve is a thinking person's game in a similar way to Magic is. There's a deck building phase (ship fitting), and there's a play phase. They're quite different and being brilliant at one doesn't mean that you'll be good at the other. In fact, they're even more similar because there's largely standard decks/fits that get passed around. No, I haven't played MTG in a long time. I suppose I should also mention that gross imbalances in the game no more make Eve less of a thinking game than Magic (or even Chess). They simply change the metagame you should play around. I agree with this post; comparing EVE to MTG makes perfect sense, imo. Both games are straightfoward while at the same time incredibly complex, especially when compared to the competition (Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, etc.)
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2009.07.12 03:29:00 - [38] Originally by: Grek Forto Originally by: Jack Airron Originally by: Aus Dog It's a good thing I pay attention to about 1% of the responses to my posts. Reality has nothing to do with some of the responses. Muti-Tanked Caracals? I haven't been in a Caracal in 7-8 month's and never multi-tanked. And some of you people seem to want to pin all their drug and alchohol problems on anyone writing in the forum. I don't regularly use either but you idiots that are flying on 25% of a brain think what you like. I do appreciate the thoughtful responses that help me work out a problem so it's just a filtering process. you're a moron QFT Quoting dis cause I be down wit it! _____________________________ Please resize sig to a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
girlyminer	Posted - 2009.07.12 04:00:00 - [39] Edited by: girlyminer on 12/07/2009 04:00:14 Originally by: Franga Originally by: Grek Forto Originally by: Jack Airron Originally by: Aus Dog It's a good thing I pay attention to about 1% of the responses to my posts. Reality has nothing to do with some of the responses. Muti-Tanked Caracals? I haven't been in a Caracal in 7-8 month's and never multi-tanked. And some of you people seem to want to pin all their drug and alchohol problems on anyone writing in the forum. I don't regularly use either but you idiots that are flying on 25% of a brain think what you like. I do appreciate the thoughtful responses that help me work out a problem so it's just a filtering process. you're a moron QFT Quoting dis cause I be down wit it! This thread has been wonderful but I think we have found a winner.
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.07.12 06:41:00 - [40] Confirming I have no idea what the OP is talking about in either of his posts. I wanted to help build a pyramid but the forum said "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!" and smacked me down.
Esamir	Posted - 2009.07.12 09:05:00 - [41] Originally by: girlyminer Edited by: girlyminer on 12/07/2009 04:00:14 Originally by: Franga Originally by: Grek Forto Originally by: Jack Airron you're a moron QFT Quoting dis cause I be down wit it! This thread has been wonderful but I think we have found a winner. No. It is abusive and unimaginative. If 'you're a moron' is the limit of your vocabulary, you should not post at all. You show yourself to be worse than the OP.
Tagami Wasp	Posted - 2009.07.12 11:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Toxif I agree with this post; comparing EVE to MTG makes perfect sense, imo. Both games are straightfoward while at the same time incredibly complex, especially when compared to the competition (Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, etc.) You should try L5R for complexity. EVE is more akin to that, than MTG.
Oki Mendar	Posted - 2009.07.12 11:38:00 - [43] Originally by: Kessiaan Confirming I have no idea what the OP is talking about in either of his posts. This
Weeka Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.12 15:03:00 - [44] Originally by: Esamir Given that some ammo states -50% cap usage, did you really think that there could be ammo that uses up half your ship's capacitor to fire one shot? Really? Incidently that is also the reason why you can't group more than two turrets of those. ---
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.07.12 22:32:00 - [45] I'm strangely enthralled by the OP.
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:26:00 - [46] Edited by: Aus Dog on 13/07/2009 06:28:50 deleted "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:28:00 - [47] One person that replied seemed like he/she understood the cap penalty biz on the ammo but didn't do a very good job of communicating it. And did I think that a single shot could ....whatever. I have seen what seemed to me to be strangely worded or conceptualized bonuses and penalties so nothing surprises me or is out of the realm of possibilities. And Derek. That was very astute of you to make that comparison. If anyone could explain the cap biz on blaster ammo better it would be appreciated. And are they converting the tracking accuracy/data to a different system or do they just flop back and forth between the different criteria at will sometimes in the same category. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Ze4K DK Gallente Nova-Tek Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.13 11:13:00 - [48] Originally by: Aus Dog And are they converting the tracking accuracy/data to a different system or do they just flop back and forth between the different criteria at will sometimes in the same category. It gets converted while flip-flopping back and forth, up and down... Sometimes ducks will fly into the barrel though and it'll only flop once and then grind to a halt with a very loud screeching noise, kinda like EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHH, and then finish with a big clunk which sounds like it's spelled... Hope that answers your question
Shatner19	Posted - 2009.07.13 11:25:00 - [49] Edited by: Shatner19 on 13/07/2009 11:25:43 Originally by: Aus Dog One person that replied seemed like he/she understood the cap penalty biz on the ammo but didn't do a very good job of communicating it. And did I think that a single shot could ....whatever. I have seen what seemed to me to be strangely worded or conceptualized bonuses and penalties so nothing surprises me or is out of the realm of possibilities. And Derek. That was very astute of you to make that comparison. If anyone could explain the cap biz on blaster ammo better it would be appreciated. And are they converting the tracking accuracy/data to a different system or do they just flop back and forth between the different criteria at will sometimes in the same category. check here for a pretty comprehensive hybrid ammo charge list: Ammo to make it simple, an ammo's range/cap modifiers are the last things to be applied to the actual usage of the guns. generally the first things that are taken into account are your skills. sharpshooter - optimal range. controlled burst - cap usage. lets look at 425mm tech 2 rail guns. without ammo or skills applied stats are: 57.6KM optimal, cap usage 30gj. with maxed skills (controlled burst 5): base cap usage turns out to be (30gj(1-0.25)=22.5gj. so according to that chart, using antimatter does not give a cap usage modifier: 22.5gj(1-0.0)=22.5gj, range modifier still applies. with lead charges: the chart gives us a -50% cap usage, so our actual cap usage on the guns would be: 22.5gj(1-0.5)= 11.25gj. TL/DR: first comes first your skills modify the gun's performance, (next in line to modify cap usage would be ship bonuses, but its simple enough to factor that in), and last is the ammo used. the only differences between blasters/railguns/pulses/beams are the base attributes of cap usage, optimal range, cpu/pg reqs, and what type of charges you can use. all other formulas stay the same. as for the tracking issues, I dont believe that they are going to be any changes in the coming patch about tracking changes. afaik the tracking/accuracy formula hasn't changed since the game came out. the only things that are modified are variables such as signature radius, a weapon's base tracking, rof, damage multiplier, etc. Originally by: Aus Dog As complex as this game is it should qualify as one of the premier thinking peoples game. They sure blew that when they made a 100 watt light bulb that burns more juice at my neighbors house than mine. I refer to the Blasters and such whose use of the cap is based on the the size of the cap.5% of the cap in a Condor cap is far different than 5% of a Maelstrom cap. Too bad air conditioners don't draw more juice at Bill Gates' house than at mine. your analogy is incorrect. gun sizes scale to the ship class (gun size - light bulb size):(ship class - house size). this means that cap usage also scales with the size of the turrets. lets say you and bill gates have the same air conditioning system. both systems will be drawing nearly the same amount of juice from the power lines but at your house the ac will be running more efficiently since it doesn't have to work as hard to cool a smaller house, while at his house the same system needs to be running constantly to keep his huge house at the same temperature as yours. in eve terms, not all ships are built the same and are optimized for a certain type of weaponry. choosing to put large blasters on a maelstrom would not be as cap efficient as putting them on a megathron/hyperion/dominix. the gallente ships have a cap recharge than can handle blasters while minmatar ships cannot. its simply a function of how the ship designed. (pro-tip, look at maximizing into a ships bonuses to get the performance out of it.)
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.18 09:20:00 - [50] Boy did I get an answer. It's going to take a bit to absorb that one. I have learned it doesn't pay to fight the current so IN GENERAL is there a breakdown as to which weapons are matched to which ship/race. Obviously Caldari are walking away in Missiles. Amarr in Lasers. Railgun and Blaster belong to whom? And to all you who chuckled at me in a BS I, due to expenses, bought a Drake as back-up and it is now my number one ship over the Raven with a set-up that should be invincible. Go figure. I guess just like the size weapon matches the ship, the ship has a lot to do with SP's. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Shatner19	Posted - 2009.07.18 09:59:00 - [51] Originally by: Aus Dog Boy did I get an answer. It's going to take a bit to absorb that one. I have learned it doesn't pay to fight the current so IN GENERAL is there a breakdown as to which weapons are matched to which ship/race. Obviously Caldari are walking away in Missiles. Amarr in Lasers. Railgun and Blaster belong to whom? And to all you who chuckled at me in a BS I, due to expenses, bought a Drake as back-up and it is now my number one ship over the Raven with a set-up that should be invincible. Go figure. I guess just like the size weapon matches the ship, the ship has a lot to do with SP's. caldari: missiles: kestrel, caracal, drake, raven hybrids: (can do both blasters and railguns), merlin, moa, ferox, rokh. amarr: lasers, pulse lasers and beam lasers. Gallente: hybrids, blasters and railguns. minmatar: projectiles, autocannons and artillery. tl:dr. just look at the bonuses on each ship, it should give bonuses for a SIZE and TYPE of weapon system. Fit for those bonuses to get optimal performance.
Ze4K DK Gallente Nova-Tek Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.18 10:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Shatner19 Originally by: Aus Dog Boy did I get an answer. It's going to take a bit to absorb that one. I have learned it doesn't pay to fight the current so IN GENERAL is there a breakdown as to which weapons are matched to which ship/race. Obviously Caldari are walking away in Missiles. Amarr in Lasers. Railgun and Blaster belong to whom? And to all you who chuckled at me in a BS I, due to expenses, bought a Drake as back-up and it is now my number one ship over the Raven with a set-up that should be invincible. Go figure. I guess just like the size weapon matches the ship, the ship has a lot to do with SP's. caldari: missiles: kestrel, caracal, drake, raven hybrids: (can do both blasters and railguns), merlin, moa, ferox, rokh. amarr: lasers, pulse lasers and beam lasers. Gallente: hybrids, blasters and railguns. minmatar: projectiles, autocannons and artillery. tl:dr. just look at the bonuses on each ship, it should give bonuses for a SIZE and TYPE of weapon system. Fit for those bonuses to get optimal performance. Caldari: Missiles/Hybrids Amarr: Lasers/Missiles (Khanid ships use missiles) Gallente: Hybrids/Drones (Yes, we're awesome) Minmatar: Projectiles/Missiles (Split hardpoints on some ships like the typhoon)

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