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PvE Golem - Range Issues with Torps?

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Adam Hunt Caldari Blood Mercenaries of the Red Hand	Posted - 2009.07.08 10:41:00 - [1] Just trying to gauge opinions. I was raking through loadouts for Golems on battleclinic and noticed that none of them used afterburners. I know from experience with my Raven that crawling toward acceleration gates is a nightmare. I couldn't imagine trying to crawl into range for torpedos, and yet I haven't seen a single Golem build that includes an afterburner, and they have an extra middle slot to boot. Any reason why? My current choice Golem build would be something of the following: -CN Siege Missile Launcher (Or Siege Missile Launcher II) x 4 -Salvager -Tractor Beam x2 or trade out one Tractor Beam for a Prototype Cloaking Device (to stave off suicide bombers) -Gist C-Type (or better) X-Large Shield Booster -CN Shield Boost Amp -Invulnerability Field (or CN variant) x2 -Target Painter (some variant) -100mn Afterburner (some variant) -Cap Recharger II -CN BCS II x 3 -Either a Cap Flux Coil II, another BCS II, or a Damage Control, depending on skills.
Duk't	Posted - 2009.07.08 10:51:00 - [2] T2 torps and flight time/speed for missile rigs u get 60k
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.07.08 10:52:00 - [3] most gates are pretty close. The farthest i remember is around 19km = you can kill enemies while approaching. I think last enemy dies when you are like 4km from gate. I dont run worlds collide, no missions against faction navies and no "the assault". So if one of those have larger distances you might want to get AB.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:22:00 - [4] In those missions it might be better to just use a CNR if you have one available. But otherwise fit AB yes, also by default in the ones where you have to travel far to acceleration gates (and for whatever reason you cant/wont decline the mission). However normally it isnt fitted, because in the fast majority of the missions all the npcs are either within 40km or will go to within 40km in reasonable time frame. And in a marauder you (well i do at least) want to sit in one spot, dont move, kill everything within 40km, and later come back to quickly salvage everything. So most npcs dont require travelling and you dont want to travel since you want to get everything together for quick salvaging. This is only for example why in a kronos i will kill the trigger in AE (long) before i killed his friends (depends on the spawn how long before), just to make sure the new spawns will have enough time to get within tractor range before i get to shooting them.
GGjita	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:28:00 - [5] You are going to need to use T2 torps on your boat, don't use the CN ones, you need the T2 ammo for range. As for the extra mid slot, this is not filled with a AB most of the time because you need 2 TP's, one will work against BS's, but if you want to use rage ammo or hit anything smaller then you need 2, i personally use 3 and love it. I just throw an AB on my ship whenever a mission calls for one, and the only ones that do need them you'll find do not require very large tanks so i actually drop a tanking mod in favor of the AB instead of a TP
Epidemis	Posted - 2009.07.08 12:47:00 - [6] I eek out around 40km with my rage torps. those are usually enough for most, otherwise I load up my javs for 65km range.
Khornne Caldari Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.07.08 13:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Adam Hunt -CN Siege Missile Launcher (Or Siege Missile Launcher II) x 4 -Salvager -Tractor Beam x2 or trade out one Tractor Beam for a Prototype Cloaking Device (to stave off suicide bombers) -Gist C-Type (or better) X-Large Shield Booster -CN Shield Boost Amp -Invulnerability Field (or CN variant) x2 -Target Painter (some variant) -100mn Afterburner (some variant) -Cap Recharger II -CN BCS II x 3 -Either a Cap Flux Coil II, another BCS II, or a Damage Control, depending on skills. I lol'd IRL. -- Khornne's Teamspeak Server Service
stoicfaux	Posted - 2009.07.08 14:11:00 - [8] Here's a thread on golem torp fittings: Linkage Basically you need to use T2 Javelin torps plus range rigs to get the Javelin torps out to 54km range since most/all mission rats orbit at 52km at most. Use normal torps for closer targets. Using two target painters is "mandatory". Choose gank over tank since torps plus two TPs plus Golem's TP bonus can one shot cruisers and quickly destroy battleships (dead targets deal no damage, so no need to tank as long.)
Acarion Sphinx Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.08 15:52:00 - [9] You dont go to where the NPC's are, you make them come to where you are. Just make sure you've got enough Spirits, wine, exotic dancers and tobacco in cargo hold. This makes sure the NPC's come to YOU for a partay, instead of having to chase them around the galaxy. In some mission though, you have spawns at above 100km range. In those cases you'll have to paint them up, in order to get them in the right partymode. High heel stockings might help here aswell. Other than that, I think above posters have nailed it already. Fake edit: BTW, that cloak wont do you any good would you be target for a suicide attack. Just leave it in station.
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2009.07.08 16:48:00 - [10] Worlds Collide has that dual 25 km slowboat to the gates in the first room. The Score has about a 55 km distance to cover in both the first and second room to get to the next gate. The bonus room of Angel Extravaganza drops you 70-80 km from the sentry guns and missile launcher emplacements. Other than a few occasions like these, the range should be fine. You can use one of your painters to pull a far group while you're killing a near group, and they'll be in range by the time you finish. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
4 LOM Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.07.08 17:34:00 - [11] I run an afterburner and 2x target painters... Perhaps you should build a golem fit to your needs? not what people on battleclinic say? If you are in a golem you should have lots of experiance with the Raven and CNR, therfore its fairly easy to know what kind of tank you need as well as what kind of mobility you want. The reason i run an afterburner is that i rarely fire javalins, i find that i can cut out entire volly's (infanct can 1 volly some battleships) using CN ammo, my skills are quite nasty so my guess is your results will very. Anyways, on the fit you posted, you need tech 2 launchers to have the option for javalins, also you need 2x range rings for your torps, after that i recomened a target painter. then fit the rest to your flavor, dont over tank focus on damage. For me that means all low are damage mods and the afterbrurner and painters help with damage as well. Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.07.08 19:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Adam Hunt Just trying to gauge opinions. I was raking through loadouts for Golems on battleclinic and noticed that none of them used afterburners. I know from experience with my Raven that crawling toward acceleration gates is a nightmare. I couldn't imagine trying to crawl into range for torpedos, and yet I haven't seen a single Golem build that includes an afterburner, and they have an extra middle slot to boot. Any reason why? My current choice Golem build would be something of the following: -CN Siege Missile Launcher (Or Siege Missile Launcher II) x 4 -Salvager -Tractor Beam x2 or trade out one Tractor Beam for a Prototype Cloaking Device (to stave off suicide bombers) -Gist C-Type (or better) X-Large Shield Booster -CN Shield Boost Amp -Invulnerability Field (or CN variant) x2 -Target Painter (some variant) -100mn Afterburner (some variant) -Cap Recharger II -CN BCS II x 3 -Either a Cap Flux Coil II, another BCS II, or a Damage Control, depending on skills. that is because your fit is wrong, not theirs.
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.07.08 21:36:00 - [13] You pretty much get 54km out of javelin torps with all the velocity/flight time skills to 5 and with 1 velocity rig and 1 flight time rig... 60km that EFT states doesnt take torpedo acceleration into account.
Adam Hunt Caldari Blood Mercenaries of the Red Hand	Posted - 2009.07.08 23:24:00 - [14] Originally by: 4 LOM Anyways, on the fit you posted, you need tech 2 launchers to have the option for javalins, also you need 2x range rings for your torps, after that i recomened a target painter. then fit the rest to your flavor, dont over tank focus on damage. For me that means all low are damage mods and the afterbrurner and painters help with damage as well. Seems like a very different design philosophy from my tank-heavy CNR. I take it the DPS is high enough to compensate. That's always been a playstyle that I've tried to avoid. I've watched enough corpmates lose their ships due to minor screwups that I get great peace of mind knowing I can tanking pretty much the entire room in any given mission. Definitely playstyle switchover sounds like.
Hazel Starr Snuff inc	Posted - 2009.07.09 00:09:00 - [15] I use a cruise based Golem with an afterburner...able to engage out to ~110km quite a few of the L4 missions would require some chasing around of targets with a siege fit. It has the benefit of being able to swap for FOF in the case of a mission bust...maybe not your usual problem -- Haze
4 LOM Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.07.09 00:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Rastigan You pretty much get 54km out of javelin torps with all the velocity/flight time skills to 5 and with 1 velocity rig and 1 flight time rig... 60km that EFT states doesnt take torpedo acceleration into account. You are forgeting implants... with a +5% my torpedos hit at 60km.. well 59.??km so when people say you can get 60% from javalins they are not being eft warriors, if someone says 63 or 64km then they are simply qouting eft. Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.07.09 10:15:00 - [17] Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Rastigan You pretty much get 54km out of javelin torps with all the velocity/flight time skills to 5 and with 1 velocity rig and 1 flight time rig... 60km that EFT states doesnt take torpedo acceleration into account. You are forgeting implants... with a +5% my torpedos hit at 60km.. well 59.??km so when people say you can get 60% from javalins they are not being eft warriors, if someone says 63 or 64km then they are simply qouting eft. t2 rigs? and 5% flight time implant on top? Suddenly you get 67-68km EFT = around 64km in game.
stoicfaux	Posted - 2009.07.09 13:46:00 - [18] Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Rastigan You pretty much get 54km out of javelin torps with all the velocity/flight time skills to 5 and with 1 velocity rig and 1 flight time rig... 60km that EFT states doesnt take torpedo acceleration into account. You are forgeting implants... with a +5% my torpedos hit at 60km.. well 59.??km so when people say you can get 60% from javalins they are not being eft warriors, if someone says 63 or 64km then they are simply qouting eft. Ugh, how much range do we lose to acceleration? I'm in the process of training for t2 torps and was hoping I could get away with Missile Bombardment IV and Missile Projection IV and still hit the magic 52km with Javelin torps.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.07.10 22:34:00 - [19] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: 4 LOM Originally by: Rastigan You pretty much get 54km out of javelin torps with all the velocity/flight time skills to 5 and with 1 velocity rig and 1 flight time rig... 60km that EFT states doesnt take torpedo acceleration into account. You are forgeting implants... with a +5% my torpedos hit at 60km.. well 59.??km so when people say you can get 60% from javalins they are not being eft warriors, if someone says 63 or 64km then they are simply qouting eft. Ugh, how much range do we lose to acceleration? I'm in the process of training for t2 torps and was hoping I could get away with Missile Bombardment IV and Missile Projection IV and still hit the magic 52km with Javelin torps. count 10% to be safe. 15-30% on rockets...
Capt Kitty	Posted - 2009.07.11 00:33:00 - [20] Below is the fit my main runs: [Golem, New Setup 1 copy 2] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Pith A-Type Photon Scattering Field Gist X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Hammerhead II x5 With my main's current skills plus implants and the rigs gives the Javelins a range of around 60km, plenty of range for those far orbiting BSs. For the ships that get closer (sub-40km) I switch to CN torps, after all, why have a 40km tractor if you are going to kill everything outside that range? I have seen some ppl use Rage torps and, granted, they do give a rather nice volley in EFT but in-game the attrocious explosion velocity let's them down, big time. With that in mind CN torps really are economically viable. I have gone with dual small boosters mainly due to sometimes having bad connections, therefore I can't rely on the ability to pulse a X-large booster when needed. It has been suggested using a Gist medium but the scarcity of C-types and the obscene prices of A/B-types (700mil-1.5bil) the Pith B-types serve quite well. Plus with the isk saved going with Pith B's it made getting the T2 rigs so much easier. Now, I don't fit an AB as the missions where you need to travel long distances are not many, so few in fact that I cannot justify honestly one. If you absolutely, positively have to have one then it's not a big issue to drop a TP for that mission I have one major critique about your (OP) posted fit - lose the cloak. Mission suiciders are not common enough to warrant you gimping your scan res (50%) by fitting one, not counting the fact that most mission rooms prevent the cloak from working anyway. Of course, I am assuming you are running missions in empire. If not then you really are looking at the wrong ship
Solid Prefekt Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.11 03:31:00 - [21] as has been said a million times, if you fly the golem you must have maxed missile range skills and then missile range rigs. once EFT says 57km then you will hit ANY rat in any mission without needing to burn. Another option is to carry one Web drone in missions where there is one far out rat.
Dracthera Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.11 05:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Adam Hunt Seems like a very different design philosophy from my tank-heavy CNR. I take it the DPS is high enough to compensate. That's always been a playstyle that I've tried to avoid. I've watched enough corpmates lose their ships due to minor screwups that I get great peace of mind knowing I can tanking pretty much the entire room in any given mission. Definitely playstyle switchover sounds like. ... which is why direct comparisons between the CNR and the Golem are pointless. They're different types of ships, and they're each geared toward different kinds of mission-running. Just because they share the same hull doesn't mean one if an upgrade for the other. You use them for different reasons. Apto Quod Ususfructus
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.07.11 06:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Adam Hunt Originally by: 4 LOM Anyways, on the fit you posted, you need tech 2 launchers to have the option for javalins, also you need 2x range rings for your torps, after that i recomened a target painter. then fit the rest to your flavor, dont over tank focus on damage. For me that means all low are damage mods and the afterbrurner and painters help with damage as well. Seems like a very different design philosophy from my tank-heavy CNR. I take it the DPS is high enough to compensate. That's always been a playstyle that I've tried to avoid. I've watched enough corpmates lose their ships due to minor screwups that I get great peace of mind knowing I can tanking pretty much the entire room in any given mission. Definitely playstyle switchover sounds like. heavy tank doesn't let you complete missions faster. and with enough gank even after a major screwup you can kill everything before your shields go down too far
Xapharia WOLIMAZO INC	Posted - 2009.07.11 07:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Solid Prefekt as has been said a million times, if you fly the golem you must have maxed missile range skills and then missile range rigs. once EFT says 57km then you will hit ANY rat in any mission without needing to burn. Another option is to carry one Web drone in missions where there is one far out rat. Blood Raiders have one or two BS that orbit at about 60km. Not sure if they are common in missions as I've stopped doing them (they're just plain BORING). I've never cared much about doing missions AFAP (as fast as possible) and prefer sticking to ammo I don't have to empty my wallet for so I stick with cruise, but that is a personal preference. Argue all you want for Javs, this is just my own opinion, I play EVE to have fun, not min/max everything and get rich doing something that bores me. _________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.

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