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Salvage Aggression change

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Tricia McMillan	Posted - 2009.07.08 16:45:00 - [1] hi, my suggestion is that if someone if salvaging from other without permission, he should be get aggressed like if you lootsteal some wreck, because. - you've learned so long all skills till you could fly missions by yourself, alone. - you investet so much time, isk, real money and time for standing that ur able to fly lvl4 or 5 missions - you spend the time in the missions, for shooting it and it mostly takes around 30mins to 1hour (for some not uber skilled / fitted ships - players so its just unfair and it does not fun when you fulfill all these terms and then you see, after you finished the mission on the agend and jumped into your loot ship / salvage ship, someone who already salvages your mission and you cant do anything, just lissen to some "haha, hoho , **** you" etc if you msg him... thats really no fun and you loose much money if someone salvages an assault mission or othe rmission with 12++ BS etc. surely, everyone startet with nothing, me too, i was a horrible noob like everyone else on the beginning but where is the problem to ask someone for fleet, that he salvage / loot and you can do half half, i think not everyone will complain if someone ask gently, but no... they just jump in your mission and salvage, its so annoying, please do something against it! ps: and no, not every lvl4 mission runner can do missions in low sec etc and why should i leave and backoff because someone else is so bad mannered an is sabotaging my salvaging? and for me, i really dont complain to someone who asks me nice, i mean, so i can do missions while he is looting / salvaging, we can split so i've some money more and he has money too + standing etc... so please change something otherwise its too frustrating if someone can play with you and can just laugh
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.08 16:49:00 - [2] I'd propose to remove wreck ownership completely, remove module drops completely and replace them (partly) with T1 component salvage and meta component salvage. That way no one can claim anymore that they are entitled to the salvage, the wrecks or anything in the mission site except that floating can with the mission objective. Can we have, like, 15 more threads about this? The forum isn't spammed enough with this as it is. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Tricia McMillan	Posted - 2009.07.08 17:18:00 - [3] sure exist enough threads but why never anything changed in the pass time and i think to just salvage someone else mission is just bad mannered like hell, because you ruin his work
Cobalt Sixty Caldari Piezochem	Posted - 2009.07.08 17:23:00 - [4] Gasp! Not bad manners, surely?
jagoff Cosmic Cakes	Posted - 2009.07.08 17:50:00 - [5] solutions: 1. fit a salvager on your BS, and salvage each wreck immediately after you kill it. 2. if the ninja takes loot, warp out and come back in a pvp ship, kill the ninja. 3. don't run missions where ninja's hang out. i have run hundreds of L4 missions and only encountered ninja's once, in a crowded hub. despite popular belief, there are good agents in systems that don't have hundreds of people. 4. fly a regular raven, or T1 BS... most ninja's will look specifically for CNR's or other "elite" ships. 5. when a ninja shows up, just finish the mission and quickly move on to the next one, letting the ninja have your salvage. half the fun of being a ninja isn't getting the salvage, it's hearing the missioner whine about ninjas. don't give them the satisfaction. 6. accept the fact that no one owns salvage. it's free to whoever gets to it first. just think, ninjas are accumulating salvage from your mission, but you still get to keep all the bounties and the LP, and the loot if the ninja's don't steal. so you aren't really losing out on that much.
Gin G Halls Of Valhalla	Posted - 2009.07.08 17:52:00 - [6] there is NOTHING wrong with the way salvage works now as CCP/GMS/MODS/ANYONE WHO WORKS AT WHEREEVER CCP IS/THE JANITOR FOR CCP has told you greedy missionrunners 100 thousand times before Please refrain from editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.07.08 19:09:00 - [7] Just because someone tells you that nothing is wrong (even if its a 1000 times) does not prove that there is nothing wrong with that ;)
Sturdy Girl	Posted - 2009.07.08 19:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Kel Nissa Just because someone tells you that something is wrong (even if its a 1000 times) does not prove that there is something wrong with that ;) Fixed.
Insa Rexion Minmatar Ray of Matar Assembly	Posted - 2009.07.08 19:31:00 - [9] Nothing earns as much as Misions in Hisec... NOTHING. It earns more tham almost everything in losec (except missions) so stop moaning. You mission runners are so greedy. well mannered ah*
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.07.08 20:25:00 - [10] there is nothing wrong with salvage. There is absolotely no reason why someone should become the ownership to the wreck, which should always belong to its original owner(see player wrecks rules). The loot mechanics are broken because the loot is assigned to someone who killed a NPC. This is wrong and has to be changed.
Khalia Nestune Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.09 00:37:00 - [11] I support making salvage an agro offense. Because when you shoot at me, I will come back and gank you in my PVP-fit ship. Or, I'll sit around in my cloaky ship and wait while you come back with a PVP-fit ship and get annoyed because I am not there. And when you finally come back with your mission ship, I'll just start salvaging again.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.07.09 00:40:00 - [12] Salvage is not yours, the end. What I'd like to see is the ability to boobytrap wrecks though. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Galmarr Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.09 13:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Salvage is not yours, the end. What I'd like to see is the ability to boobytrap wrecks though. Salvage is not YOURS, the end. What I'd like to see is the ability to shoot mr when they try to salvage MY wrecks.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.07.09 13:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Tricia McMillan - you've learned so long all skills till you could fly missions by yourself, alone. - you investet so much time, isk, real money and time for standing that ur able to fly lvl4 or 5 missions - you spend the time in the missions, for shooting it and it mostly takes around 30mins to 1hour (for some not uber skilled / fitted ships - players And for all of that you get: - Money in the form of mission rewards and bonuses. - Money from bounties. - Loot. - Loyalty points. - Standings. And, to quote CCP PrismX: "[salvaging is] a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding." Salvage is not part of the mission rewards. It's not yours. It belongs to whomever gets the wreck first. If you are so slow that someone else manages to beat you to the wrecks, even though you're right there when they're created, why on earth should you be entitled to the salvage, much less be given the right to shoot at them when they've worked harder to get there than you did? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Galmarr Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.09 14:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Tricia McMillan hi, - you've learned so long all skills till you could fly missions by yourself, alone. - you investet so much time, isk, real money and time for standing that ur able to fly lvl4 or 5 missions - you spend the time in the missions, for shooting it and it mostly takes around 30mins to 1hour (for some not uber skilled / fitted ships - players so its just unfair and it does not fun when you fulfill all these terms and then you see, after you finished the mission on the agend and jumped into your loot ship / salvage ship, someone who already salvages your mission and you cant do anything, just lissen to some "haha, hoho , **** you" etc if you msg him... thats really no fun and you loose much money if someone salvages an assault mission or othe rmission with 12++ BS etc. Ok. Heres a RL example: You graduated high school, went to collage, got a PHD. After 4 years and more of schooling you finally get a job and now are paying back all your student loans. I graduated high school, went right into the work force. While you are paying back your student loans, which takes years, i have no loans and a good job. Let me make the connection. You spent months of skilling to permatank lvl4's and you feel a sense of entitlement to all of the privilges. I, on the other hand, spent 1 or 2 months skilling and making isk. Thats not my fault you made a poor career choice, nor is it CCP's fault. You didn't do your homework. Stop crying, change careers or live with it. Or join us!
Alek Tekar	Posted - 2009.07.09 15:42:00 - [16] Edited by: Alek Tekar on 09/07/2009 15:45:12 What if CCP decentralizes the high quality level 4 agents. Spreading them out would not only make it a little more challenging for the ninja to find targets, but it will make hubs less laggy. No big change of mechanics, the bears can find good HQ agents elsewhere. Ninjas can still get the much needed tears to fuel their grief boats and maybe just maybe I wont have to see nine hundred million "He stole my salvage" threads. Edited for spelling
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.07.09 16:55:00 - [17] CCP recently stated that salvaging wrecks was to become a criminal offence, causing a CONCORD response in highsec, because it was seen as desecrating a war grave. They also said that they expected this to solve the salvage theft issue. Well, that was the lolRP reason, basically it's intended as a boost to lowsec.
Kobushi OCForums	Posted - 2009.07.09 17:02:00 - [18] Edited by: Kobushi on 09/07/2009 17:02:10 CCP and Dev official position Man up and move out of motsu/dodixie.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.07.09 17:10:00 - [19] Edited by: Jarvis Hellstrom on 09/07/2009 17:10:49 Originally by: Kobushi Edited by: Kobushi on 09/07/2009 17:02:10 CCP and Dev official position Man up and move out of motsu/dodixie. You missed the key part of CCP PrismX's post: Originally by: CCP PrismX But you can sleep easy. I don't make those decisions. So it's no more than my twisted thought. So the 'official' position is apparently just one developer's opinion and one without decision power to boot. I'm sure his info on what he's heard is accurate but he is not a decision/policy maker. Of course, he can correct me if I'm misreading what he wrote. Text is terrible for details on such matters. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.07.09 17:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom You missed the key part of CCP PrismX's post: Originally by: CCP PrismX But you can sleep easy. I don't make those decisions. So it's no more than my twisted thought. And you missed what that was in reference to: his wish to reduce the amount of loot in mission — i.e. a nerf. Quote: So the 'official' position is apparently just one developer's opinion His opinion about nerfing missions is just his; his statements about salvage is not — those have been backed by pretty much every other CCP person with any say in the matter. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.07.09 18:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Tippia And you missed what that was in reference to: his wish to reduce the amount of loot in mission ù i.e. a nerf. <shrug> Last I checked we weren't talking about mission loot (which in high sec is frequently only barely worth picking up). Balancing missions is another story entirely and is being discussed in other threads. Ninja salvaging doesn't really 'balance' them anyway - save possibly in the very busiest hubs. Straw man argument. Besides, my main issue with ninja salvagers is their griefer behaviour, their arrogant entitled manner and their risk free and cost free ISK printing on the backs of the efforts of others. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.07.09 18:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom <shrug> Last I checked we weren't talking about mission loot (which in high sec is frequently only barely worth picking up). Why did you bring it up then? Quote: Besides, my main issue with ninja salvagers is their griefer behaviour, their arrogant entitled manner and their risk free and cost free ISK printing on the backs of the efforts of others. See, that's funny because that's the same issue the ninjas have with mission runners: their arrogant manner and their sense of entitlement in relation to something that isn't theirs to begin with, not to mention the risk-free ISK printing (and an actual ISK faucet at that) and their complete ignorance of the fact that their efforts are already being rewarded. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Galmarr Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.09 18:26:00 - [23] I think all of missed this http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1051722 Hi-sec missions is the big problem not salvage
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.09 18:27:00 - [24] hi my suggestion is that every thread about salvaging will move one level 4 agent into low sec
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.09 19:29:00 - [25] Quote: Besides, my main issue with ninja salvagers is their griefer behaviour, their arrogant entitled manner and their risk free and cost free ISK printing on the backs of the efforts of others. Non-consensual PVP != griefing. Griefing in Eve is IIRC defined as detracting from another's enjoyment of the game with zero monetary motive. We make money off of salvage. Your tears are a sweet, sweet bonus. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Insa Rexion Minmatar Ray of Matar Assembly	Posted - 2009.07.10 17:47:00 - [26] Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn hi my suggestion is that every thread about salvaging will move one level 4 agent into low sec signed... ur a genius BTW well mannered ah*
Roger Douglas Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.10 18:49:00 - [27] Problem: Someone stealz my salv4ge an i cannt stop them!!!11oneeleven!! Solution #1: Sure make salvaging cause aggression. I can GUARANTEE that greifers would LOVE this change, since then when you shot the arrogant little salvage ninja your CNR would be hotdropped by the greifer's in-corp buddies in ships designed specifically to tear your precious CNR into little bitz. Then they would make far more on your modules than your salvage. The old adage: "Are you gonna want what you're gonna get?" applies here. Solution #2: Mission in lowsec with a combat buddy or alt, be prepared to PVP. Solution #3: (My favorite, but I'm biased )Join a 0.0 alliance or corp and rat in 0.0, salvaging happily, and never a worry that some salvage ninja will salvage your wrecks. You merely have to worry about someone pewing your ship, but honestly, with intel/local/pvp-fit, you stand a decent chance of salvaging their wreck No matter how frustrating salvage ninjas are now, I predict that you will be squealing like a stuck pig for ninja-salvaging a wreck to be a CONCORDable offense after the greifers eat a couple of your CNR's
Magnus Orin Minmatar Heavy Influence	Posted - 2009.07.10 19:41:00 - [28] Please, get this through your head you ignorant little carebear: WRECKS ARE NOT THERE TO INCREASE YOUR ISK/HOUR, THEY ARE THERE AS A BASIS FOR THE SALVAGING PROFESSION. Go away and stop making these threads.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.07.10 20:26:00 - [29] Edited by: Jarvis Hellstrom on 10/07/2009 20:35:11 Originally by: Paul Clavet Griefing in Eve is IIRC defined as detracting from another's enjoyment of the game with zero monetary motive. That is, indeed, how CCP defines it which is why your behaviour wasn't shut down by a GM long ago. I, however, don't permit CCP to define my thoughts or point of view. Unlike you, apparently, I think for myself. But time for me to take a break over clubbing you with a logic stick - I have a convention to run. Have a good weekend making mission runners miserable and ruining the gameplay of others. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Voridor Malevolence	Posted - 2009.07.10 22:22:00 - [30] Edited by: Voridor Malevolence on 10/07/2009 22:25:41 Edited by: Voridor Malevolence on 10/07/2009 22:22:57 Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom I, however, don't permit CCP to define my thoughts or point of view. Unlike you, apparently, I think for myself. Good for you? Too bad your free thinking cant change CCP's mind. Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom But time for me to take a break over clubbing you with a logic stick - I have a convention to run. Have a good weekend making mission runners miserable and ruining the gameplay of others. have a good weekend yiffing or dressing up like jedis or whatever

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