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Terrigal
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Posted - 2009.07.10 16:06:00 -
[1]
Miners & Industrialists Unite -
With the banning of marcoÆs and Chinese Government banning gold farmers Now is time for us poor forgotten pilots to get our own back. IÆm sure youÆve all noticed you can log on anytime and the system (Hi Sec) youÆre in has not been totally stripped or for most totally untouched.
As you all know if you mine you have all the risk and no reward, Hi Sec ganking of Hulk pilots (loss of 250mil rig fitted ship) seems to be the flavour for these players for the last few months. Flying in a total fail barge that doesnÆt even mine at any reasonable level and has no tank what so ever is not my idea of fun or a career path, before you flame me iÆve extremely good mining skills and mined (Hulk) today for 2 hours kernite & pyrox refined and selling at market price I would see a return of 6 million isk in that time my alt ran two missions with a friend and made 18 million. I mine because I make ships for my corporation, nothing I mine or manufacture ever hits the market and I do this afk while running missions and 0.0stuff. The loss of a hulk is a server blow to my operation thatÆs not easily replaced, unlike 3 gank vexors.
So I believe itÆs time for us to increase the price of minerals, ships & mods by at least 100% and then finally our professions can make some decent isk comparable to mission runners and null sec ratters.
We need to do this fast before CCP seeÆs what will happen to the market as minerals, ships & mods as all this will become scarcer and slowly goes up in price. If we donÆt weÆll miss out on making back on losses and time spent for very little return, sooner or later CCP will have no choice but to seed the market so letÆs get in first make some real isk till this happens. You may see me enter the market if we all agree and do this cause presently itÆs just not worth it.
WE dont have to talk to each other or do anything except put our prices up.
I do realise in the real world youÆd call this collusion but meh this is EVE.
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Paleron
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.07.10 16:22:00 -
[2]
I see where you are coming from but I just don't see it happening. If you raise prices then others will just undercut you and be glad of the increased business.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.07.10 16:26:00 -
[3]
The real problem I see with this happening is that miners are too damned independent to pull it off (I should know, I am one). It would take cluster wide organization pull off any significant increase in prices, and you'd always have some group that would be willing to undercut the masses for their own good.
--Vel
Experience is what you get right after you need it.
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Terrigal
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Posted - 2009.07.10 16:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Terrigal on 10/07/2009 16:33:19
I do see the points raised but honestly if you watch the market and im sure most of you do you would've noticed a slowly increasing price on all comodities, what I'm saying is lets get in first as if we dont do this and CCP enters the market to stabilize prices we've already missed the boat. So lets all increase the price buy 100% and then compete at that level. And well disenters can be dealt with 
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.07.10 16:36:00 -
[5]
I seriously doubt CCP will make any moves to artificially influence the minerals market (or they would have done it by now to bring the price of Tritanium back into line with the other minerals.). Doing so would, more than unlikely, simply unbalance something else.
Eventually, things will settle into a new equilibrium, but jumping the gun on that is likely to cause more problems than it solves.
--Vel
Experience is what you get right after you need it.
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Terrigal
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Posted - 2009.07.10 16:42:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Terrigal on 10/07/2009 16:42:48
CCP didnt get involved with the trit issue in my opinion because it was only one aspect in the market but when trit goes to 10isk per unit and say nocxuim inceases to around 400isk per unit and all other mineral accordingly the price of a Raven with end up around 250mil isk.
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Master Ninurta
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.07.10 16:44:00 -
[7]
While an interesting idea I fail to see why I should trust you. My suggestion is instead that you put out buy orders that are 25% above average sell price, but place them in remote stations with a buy radius of "station". This would make me trust you more, and I promise to sell my ore at, at least, 20% higher than average today!
Go ahead and earn my trust!
I'll buy your house, your bank, and your country. |
Jelosavich
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Posted - 2009.07.10 19:26:00 -
[8]
It's supply and demand. There are enough miners willing to mine for 5-10M an hour to supply what everyone else needs. If there were less miners and more mission runners/PVPers, demand would increase and supply would decrease. If you want ore prices to go up, start blowing crap up!
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Edarti
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Posted - 2009.07.10 19:47:00 -
[9]
Economics 101 will teach you that collusion will never work with near perfectly competitive market conditions .
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Sin Six
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Posted - 2009.07.10 23:05:00 -
[10]
Well, your first problem is that you're mining kernite & pyrox..... your second problem that 6m in 2 hours is still terrible even mining kernite & pyrox. What's your mining technique? What's your refining %? Did you sell to the highest bidder at the station you were at or did you setup a sell order?
2 hours mining concentrated/dense veld w/ a low skill alt providing mining bonuses & hauling should be netting over 25M
- Sin Six
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Lilith Darkspace
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Posted - 2009.07.11 00:07:00 -
[11]
actually, the past few days ALL of the belts near my corp HQ have been drained dry, Sobaseki, funtainen and sectors surrounding them.. havent seen anything like that before.
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Future Mutant
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Posted - 2009.07.11 00:47:00 -
[12]
In before mission runners begin to laugh and point 
You do realize that reprocessed mission loot provide over 50% of all minerals used in eve right?
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.07.11 00:48:00 -
[13]
Go ahead, expose your impotence
 Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
it does get progressively longer.
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FunzzeR
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.11 03:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Edarti
Economics 101 will teach you that collusion will never work with near perfectly competitive market conditions .
That and the fact there are almost no barriers to entry, so everyone and their dog can enter the market and undercut your cartel price.
I know I would. 
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Terrigal
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Posted - 2009.07.11 05:40:00 -
[15]
Well dont say I told you so because with 10,000 marco and gold farmers not mining anymore the price will definately go up and for those who build capitals good luck in 6 months unless i guess you lot brought your fairy wand from WOW. And Funzzer you know my alt
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Suneai
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.07.11 11:26:00 -
[16]
I do agree that miners & industrialists do need to do something as a collective to up prices, but I don't think just a proposal to kick up prices like that will get very far. We'd need something a lot more serious/harsh to happen, something that will have a chain impact, right down to the large powerhouses of EVE.
Not sure what could be done though... well I do have a thought, but it even sounds like pure insanity in my own head so I'll keep it there for now. 
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Zero Checksum
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Posted - 2009.07.11 11:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Terrigal
Chinese Government banning gold farmers
Lol.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.11 12:23:00 -
[18]
Prices WILL naturally evolve to where they should be.
If you feel the prices now are too far off from the equilibrium...
...buy out all current stock and relist it higher up, to the price you consider "fair".
If you were right, you'll make a lot of ISK. If not... well, you should have known you weren't.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.07.11 13:55:00 -
[19]
dirty trade unionists
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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TheTradeMonkey
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Posted - 2009.07.13 09:01:00 -
[20]
I very much doubt that CCP will step in and make any changes to the universe.
They tried it before and the players shouted about it.
If the mineral market gets too expensive then others will get drawn towards mining, then the prices will come back down and the whole thing will balance it's self out.
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Haans Emerich
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Posted - 2009.07.13 09:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Suneai
well I do have a thought, but it even sounds like pure insanity in my own head so I'll keep it there for now.
Strike no one mine for 2 weeks!!
only problem would be demand would be huge for a couple of days after but would only return to normal shortly after. meaning an overall loss for us
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.13 09:15:00 -
[22]
There's people who mission the whole day and recycle the meta 1 and lesser loot. After a while they can build themselves capitals with the amounts you loot and likewise 0.0 ratters can kill super-minerals rich NPCs.
Result: they sell the millions of minerals they got "for free" (that is the mission paid enough, and this is a nice optional addendum on top of it) as collateral consequence of missioning. Being a collateral consequence, being missioneers usually non traders and in need to sell stuff fast, they will heavily undercut proper miners and industrialists.
This is the first issue to look after, not to pretend to make a cartel (impossible, too many independent people to convince) just to be undercut 3 minutes later.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Callista Omenswarm
Astronautical Engineering
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Posted - 2009.07.13 13:19:00 -
[23]
So your solution to losing a ship worth over 100mil, is to increase the price of aforementioned minerals used in the manufacture of said ship...
I spot a flaw in your cunning plan.
Astronautical Engineering - T1 BPC Store - Now recruiting |
Drew442
Caldari
War Material Bussiness and Trade Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.13 19:10:00 -
[24]
It won't work. Scary if how we replace a few things in the post it starts to resemble real life:
Quote:
Autoworkers Unite -
With the banning of capitalism, Now is time for us poor forgotten autoworkers to get our own back. IÆm sure youÆve all noticed you can go to work anytime and the factory youÆre in has not been powered up or for most totally untouched.
As you all know if you work you have all the risk and no reward, management ganking of union jobs (loss of infinite job bank status) seems to be the flavour for these workers for the last few months. Working in a total fail factory that doesnÆt even produce at any reasonable level and has no power what so ever is not my idea of fun or a career path, before you flame me iÆve extremely good snoring skills and worked (Cordoba) today for 2 hours T6061 & steel refined and selling at market price I would see a return of 6 dollars in that time my coworker ran two non-union plants with a friend and made 18 million. I work because I make cars for my corporation, nothing I mine or manufacture ever hits the market (because it's a Chrysler) and I do this on lunch break while running rivet machines and stuff. The loss of a Cordoba is a server blow to my operation thatÆs not easily replaced, unlike 3 K-Cars.
So I believe itÆs time for us to increase the price of automobiles & hubcaps by at least 100% and then finally our professions can make some decent money comparable to management and non-union workers.
We need to do this fast before Obama seeÆs what will happen to the market as aluminum, cars & tail fins as all this will become scarcer and slowly goes up in price. If we donÆt weÆll miss out on making back on losses and time spent for very little return, sooner or later Obama will have no choice but to seed the market so letÆs get in first make some real money till this happens. You may see me enter the market if we all agree and do this cause presently itÆs just not worth it.
WE dont have to talk to each other or do anything except put our prices up.
I do realise in the real world youÆd call this collusion but meh we are the UAW.
O wait...
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NETCODE
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Posted - 2009.07.13 19:34:00 -
[25]
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF ECONOMICS!
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K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2009.07.13 19:55:00 -
[26]
The key word is "unite".
Unless you've got a charisma implant +500, herding 5000 cats from El Paso to Montana would be infinitely easier.
All economies are based on exploitation of human and natural resources, with risk being the multiplier. The poor bastards toiling in RL mines are just that, poor bastards. There is always someone waiting in line to take those jobs. The owners know it, the governments know it, the consumers know it. And they are all taking advantage of the exploitation of people so that their lives are a bit easier.
Lead us to the promised land, sir, but you better have one helluva dance to entrance us to follow...
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Little Fistter
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.13 20:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Little Fistter on 13/07/2009 20:51:57
You know what works even better?
Kill all miners! If all the hulks get attacked miners will stop mining!
Support Trit prices: Gank a hulk today!
DEVS! Please a small color indicator upon jump gate icon that shows color of the system security rating of the destination system in the overview and in the HUD view.
Little Fistter |
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