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I feel ashamed for jumping on the CNR vs Golem Bandwagon, but..

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Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.07.10 18:23:00 - [1] What's wrong with this fit compared to the Golem: [Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Capacitor Flux Coil II Damage Control II Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Pith A-Type Ballistic Deflection Field Pith A-Type Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo [empty high slot] Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Capacitor Control Circuit I 600 dps tank when swapping out the hardeners as needed, you get 1100 dps with faction torps and 900dps with javelins. If I were to pick either one, I'd fit it out with these mods as I already own them. Golem has the exp velocity and painter bonus but is that worth it? -- Eventus stultorum magister.
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.07.10 18:25:00 - [2] Yes, Those Golem Bonus's are worth it. Also Tractor beam bonus FTW, Cherry picking and salvaging the most worth while wrecks while you lewt really will increase your isk per hour considerably. --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.07.10 18:27:00 - [3] Alt with a catalyst handles salvaging. So the Golem's torp bonuses make it superior for hitting sub-battleships and therefore the better choice? -- Eventus stultorum magister.
hobo deluxe	Posted - 2009.07.10 18:32:00 - [4] Ill start with saying i dont know much about the subject but if your 2 painters already allow your torps to do max damage VS cruiser and up then golem bonus's will make no difference right?
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.07.10 18:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Arthur Frayn What's wrong with this fit compared to the Golem: Quote: Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster The Golem does the job just as well, but the tank and painter bonuses mean you can use a plain T2 (well, a cheap CN X-large booster for CPU) fit and not be an appealing target. And since you can salvage as you kill, you can use that Catalyst alt to fly another Golem and run two missions at once. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Caleb Fury	Posted - 2009.07.10 18:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Arthur Frayn What's wrong with this fit compared to the Golem: [Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Capacitor Flux Coil II Damage Control II Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Pith A-Type Ballistic Deflection Field Pith A-Type Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo [empty high slot] Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Capacitor Control Circuit I 600 dps tank when swapping out the hardeners as needed, you get 1100 dps with faction torps and 900dps with javelins. If I were to pick either one, I'd fit it out with these mods as I already own them. Golem has the exp velocity and painter bonus but is that worth it? A Golem now huh? Go ahead and gimme your Nightmare will you?
Col Angus	Posted - 2009.07.10 20:15:00 - [7] The problem is that you are using torps. By the time the rats are in torp range, a cruise CNR will have already cleard nearly 1/3 of the room. CNR does out damage the Golem, but the Golem is better for loot/salvage....I still fly the CNR though. [Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Cladari Navy Ballistic Control System Cladari Navy Ballistic Control System Cladari Navy Ballistic Control System Cladari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II Cladari Navy XL Shield Booster Cladari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Cladari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field Cladari Navy Heat Dissipation Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Cladari Navy Cruise Launcher Cladari Navy Cruise Launcher Cladari Navy Cruise Launcher Cladari Navy Cruise Launcher Cladari Navy Cruise Launcher Cladari Navy Cruise Launcher Cladari Navy Cruise Launcher Small Tractor Beam Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones 1000+ Tank vs. mission specific damage 620+ DPS + Drones (and starts dealing damage at 95k) Some folks say to fit Rigor rigs, but I'm already killing BC and Cruiser spawns in 2-3 volleys. So this works for me.
Enden Assulu Caldari Blood Money Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.10 21:18:00 - [8] CNR Out damages Golem? Is that a typo? AFAIK the Golem does far more DPS Click the image!
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2009.07.10 21:27:00 - [9] Raven: 6 Launchers + 25% RoF bonus = 8 effective launchers CNR: 7 Launchers + 25% RoF bonus = 9.33 effective launchers Golem: 4 Launchers + 100% Damage bonux = 8 effective launchers
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.07.10 22:29:00 - [10] Thing is that the damage calculations for a CNR assume that you spend out a billion or so on a hyper-pricey hyper-easy to fit medium shield booster. Otherwise it fails, and has to fit cruise. I think the answer to this question really depends what direction you come at it from. If you already have more money than sense (in which case, why mission ?) then you are probably better off with the stupidly pimped CNR. Mainly because with that kind of isk to toss around, you almost certainly have an alt to salvage, and if you CTD or get suicided and die you won't care. If you are someone working from the ground up and are looking for a move on from your regular raven, then its DEFINITELY the golem. Aside from being more ammo efficient it fits like a beauty. I wonder why people post these hyper pimp CNR fits and say its worth the money. You already have billions to spend on modules... So why ? I mean the golem aint cheap, but still, least its the actually hull that costs.
Hazel Starr Snuff inc	Posted - 2009.07.11 02:26:00 - [11] While the CNR is a fine ship...one advantage for the Golem mission running is the double range/speed to tractor beams. It allows you to pull wrecks together for a follow-on ship to loot/salvage If you tractor in only the large wrecks you get 90% of the benefit of the mission anyway, -- Haze
Solid Prefekt Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.11 03:29:00 - [12] The Golem makes more isk an hour. No question. CCP even said they created the Marauder specifically for running missions (it is in one of the video interviews). As for people that do not salvage as they use an alt. You can use that alt to do something else to make isk giving you even more isk. Isk will soon be coming out your ears.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.07.11 06:10:00 - [13] high ammo cost expensive booster not having 4 bcus empty highslot no afterburner (not a huge deal) other then that meh. it works doesn't it?
GGjita	Posted - 2009.07.11 09:22:00 - [14] To be honest i run both a CNR and a Golem (and a Tengu for very specific missions) CNR: 4 CN BCU's, 3 rigor rigs, and PWNAGE This runs missions that have either a lot of small ships with very few BS's or missions where almost everything spawns at 70+km. The reason is that on the missions with lots of small stuff the CNR kills them much faster and i'm not really losing anything on the loot since it is mostly small stuff anyway. On the far away missions i use the CNR because by the time most of the good stuff got to within the 40km kill range the CNR could pretty much be done and warping out of the mission (LP is worth a lot more than salvage). Tengu: 4 CN BCU's, PWNAGE, AB I only run 3 missions with this, The Score, Massive Attack and Recon 3/3. On the two serp missions this thing owns with the over 800 dps against kinetic and can do better than 660 m/s. The tengu really comes into its own when doing these two, and it is a lot of fun. Golem: 4 CN BCU's, 3x PWNAGE This runs the vast majority of my missions. Basically everything that the two above don't do. When I use this in a mission it makes a good deal more isk/hour. As to running a Torp CNR. Yes you can do it and yes with the right skills and mods you can do missions faster than the Golem. You will be running almost no tank though since you'll NEED 3 TP's. Unfortunately it will not nearly be fast enough to make up the fact that the Golem can loot/salvage. If you wanna use torps just get the damn Golem it is worth it.
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.07.11 10:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Col Angus The problem is that you are using torps. By the time the rats are in torp range, a cruise CNR will have already cleard nearly 1/3 of the room. CNR does out damage the Golem, but the Golem is better for loot/salvage....I still fly the CNR though. Max skills + T2 torps + AB = win. Most NPCs tend to spawn either within Javelin torp range, or very close to it. If they aren't, just hit the AB and get into range, it doesn't take that long. And once you're there, the far better dps of torps will kill things MUCH faster. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Misanth Reaper Industries	Posted - 2009.07.11 12:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Sera Ryskin Originally by: Col Angus The problem is that you are using torps. By the time the rats are in torp range, a cruise CNR will have already cleard nearly 1/3 of the room. CNR does out damage the Golem, but the Golem is better for loot/salvage....I still fly the CNR though. Max skills + T2 torps + AB = win. Most NPCs tend to spawn either within Javelin torp range, or very close to it. If they aren't, just hit the AB and get into range, it doesn't take that long. And once you're there, the far better dps of torps will kill things MUCH faster. ..depends a bit what factional agents used, but yes this. If you run alot of missions vs Sansha/Blood Raider you'll end up getting missions where things are 70km+ very frequent, often at 90km+. But that's when you pull out the Nightmare or Paladin instead. I don't understand why people want to restrict themselves to one-ship-do-all. I guess it's same reason they fit omnitank (in PvE, obviously). Lazy? Sell those expensive midslot modules on your CNR, get a Golem and rotate Golem (torp)/CNR (cruise) with t2 fits tbfh. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.07.11 14:02:00 - [17] Originally by: Enden Assulu CNR Out damages Golem? Is that a typo? AFAIK the Golem does far more DPS fail
Leandro Salazar Quam Singulari	Posted - 2009.07.11 15:31:00 - [18] Originally by: Arthur Frayn What's wrong with this fit compared to the Golem: 1. No tractor beams. The difference those three modules make in isk/hour is impossible to overcome by any ship that does not have them unless you run mostly against **** loot/salvage NPCs or have another Marauder (or a Legion :D) to loot/salvage. 2. Ammo consumption. Only a small factor, but still a factor. 3. No need at all for expensive mods on the Golem. 4. Exp velocity and painter bonus DO make a difference, especially against Angels. 5. Higher volley damage of the Golem pretty much offsets the dps advantage of the CNR, making killing speed virtually the same. 6. 7th med is much more useful as extra slot than 5th low (can't put AB or SeBo in lows...) And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
Ignitious Hellfury Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.11 15:48:00 - [19] Originally by: ZW Dewitt Raven: 6 Launchers + 25% RoF bonus = 8 effective launchers CNR: 7 Launchers + 25% RoF bonus = 9.33 effective launchers Golem: 4 Launchers + 100% Damage bonux = 8 effective launchers thank you. So many idiots just see 100% and go woopee!
Essence Praetor Retribution. Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.11 18:50:00 - [20] Edited by: Essence Praetor on 11/07/2009 18:53:13 I like to not think when I grind my ISK, so . . . I fly CNR. Lately I have realized that I would like to think even less so I am setting up a nightmare. A golem will speed you through missions a bit faster then a CNR. But in the end that is not what everyone is looking for. And I don't know where some of you guy are getting your info from but a Golem can land more DPS on a battleship then a CNR.
GGjita	Posted - 2009.07.11 20:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Essence Praetor Edited by: Essence Praetor on 11/07/2009 18:53:13 And I don't know where some of you guy are getting your info from but a Golem can land more DPS on a battleship then a CNR. You need to look at the bonuses that each ship gets. The CNR gets a 25% boost to Rof, and with 7 launchers it will do more raw dps than a golem which only gets 4 launchers and a 100% bonus. If you don't believe us throw it into EFT and you will see.
Mystafyre Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.07.11 21:17:00 - [22] Originally by: SuiJuris Yes, Those Golem Bonus's are worth it. Also Tractor beam bonus FTW, Cherry picking and salvaging the most worth while wrecks while you lewt really will increase your isk per hour considerably. And lose a ton of ISK by salvaging with CRAPPY salvage chance...
Mystafyre Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.07.11 21:19:00 - [23] Originally by: GGjita Originally by: Essence Praetor Edited by: Essence Praetor on 11/07/2009 18:53:13 And I don't know where some of you guy are getting your info from but a Golem can land more DPS on a battleship then a CNR. You need to look at the bonuses that each ship gets. The CNR gets a 25% boost to Rof, and with 7 launchers it will do more raw dps than a golem which only gets 4 launchers and a 100% bonus. If you don't believe us throw it into EFT and you will see. No you do not need to look the bonuses. Torp CNR is utter failure since the range is just hilariously low...
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2009.07.11 21:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Mystafyre Originally by: SuiJuris Yes, Those Golem Bonus's are worth it. Also Tractor beam bonus FTW, Cherry picking and salvaging the most worth while wrecks while you lewt really will increase your isk per hour considerably. And lose a ton of ISK by salvaging with CRAPPY salvage chance... You don't lose as such AFAIK, you just lose on time spent salvaging. ________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (also with a review of the Muninn!)
Mystafyre Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.07.11 21:21:00 - [25] Originally by: GGjita To be honest i run both a CNR and a Golem (and a Tengu for very specific missions) CNR: 4 CN BCU's, 3 rigor rigs, and PWNAGE This runs missions that have either a lot of small ships with very few BS's or missions where almost everything spawns at 70+km. The reason is that on the missions with lots of small stuff the CNR kills them much faster and i'm not really losing anything on the loot since it is mostly small stuff anyway. On the far away missions i use the CNR because by the time most of the good stuff got to within the 40km kill range the CNR could pretty much be done and warping out of the mission (LP is worth a lot more than salvage). Tengu: 4 CN BCU's, PWNAGE, AB I only run 3 missions with this, The Score, Massive Attack and Recon 3/3. On the two serp missions this thing owns with the over 800 dps against kinetic and can do better than 660 m/s. The tengu really comes into its own when doing these two, and it is a lot of fun. Golem: 4 CN BCU's, 3x PWNAGE This runs the vast majority of my missions. Basically everything that the two above don't do. When I use this in a mission it makes a good deal more isk/hour. As to running a Torp CNR. Yes you can do it and yes with the right skills and mods you can do missions faster than the Golem. You will be running almost no tank though since you'll NEED 3 TP's. Unfortunately it will not nearly be fast enough to make up the fact that the Golem can loot/salvage. If you wanna use torps just get the damn Golem it is worth it. LMFAO... THREE PAINTERS IN GOLEM? HAHAHAHAHAHA... Train your missile specs up lol...
Mystafyre Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.07.11 21:23:00 - [26] Originally by: Bibbleibble Originally by: Mystafyre Originally by: SuiJuris Yes, Those Golem Bonus's are worth it. Also Tractor beam bonus FTW, Cherry picking and salvaging the most worth while wrecks while you lewt really will increase your isk per hour considerably. And lose a ton of ISK by salvaging with CRAPPY salvage chance... You don't lose as such AFAIK, you just lose on time spent salvaging. If I salvage with my golem, salvaging lvl 3, no salvage rigs. I get half of that amount of salvage that I get with my alt in hurricane, salvaging lvl 4 and salvage t1 rigs...
Rilwar BlackStar Industrial	Posted - 2009.07.11 21:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Mystafyre Originally by: Bibbleibble Originally by: Mystafyre Originally by: SuiJuris Yes, Those Golem Bonus's are worth it. Also Tractor beam bonus FTW, Cherry picking and salvaging the most worth while wrecks while you lewt really will increase your isk per hour considerably. And lose a ton of ISK by salvaging with CRAPPY salvage chance... You don't lose as such AFAIK, you just lose on time spent salvaging. If I salvage with my golem, salvaging lvl 3, no salvage rigs. I get half of that amount of salvage that I get with my alt in hurricane, salvaging lvl 4 and salvage t1 rigs... Good thing salvage skill and rigs have zero effect on what you get for salvage then! ------------------------------------------------- Mitnal was here.
GGjita	Posted - 2009.07.11 22:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Mystafyre LMFAO... THREE PAINTERS IN GOLEM? HAHAHAHAHAHA... Train your missile specs up lol... Having 3 TP's helps when you want to shoot at cruisers or frigs. I don't use all 3 on BS's or BC's but it does make a difference on the smaller ships. You also never fire a volley without at least one TP being on target by having the extra one there. It is not necessary but it does help, not to mention it is fun to insta-pop a frig every now and then. Originally by: Rilwar Originally by: Mystafyre Originally by: Bibbleibble Originally by: Mystafyre And lose a ton of ISK by salvaging with CRAPPY salvage chance... You don't lose as such AFAIK, you just lose on time spent salvaging. If I salvage with my golem, salvaging lvl 3, no salvage rigs. I get half of that amount of salvage that I get with my alt in hurricane, salvaging lvl 4 and salvage t1 rigs... Good thing salvage skill and rigs have zero effect on what you get for salvage then! Rilwar is right in the fact that salvage rigs have no effect on what salvage you get from the wreck. They only effect the chance you have of actually salvaging the wreck on that cycle.

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