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Hait
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Posted - 2009.07.10 19:59:00 -
[1]
Or is it..
I would be intersted in hearing your opinions of which ships you think break the balance and why.
I'll start us off then - the Drake
No other battlecruiser has such a hard tank and can do as much damage as the Drake. If you were to sign up to this game - get in a drake .. huzzah lvl3's in a month. Gate guns - no problem.
Your turn.
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |

Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:01:00 -
[2]
deimos sucks
amarr is overpowered
the end
although i'm sure i forgot some things
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:06:00 -
[3]
Drake is still a missile boats, that comes with a few weaknesses that balances it sporting the most brute force out of the BC's.
Armageddon however, just plain overpowered. Deals a ridiculous ammount of DPS which it can deliver across a great span of distance, looks good and it's cheap as hell too.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:11:00 -
[4]
The Drake is an excellent PvE boat, but in any other role it's usefulness is mixed. Any attempt to make them good as tacklers or other support comes at immediate expense of it's tank.
Basically, you can sit in one place with a nigh-impenetrable tank spamming missiles out to 80km. But you won't be doing much else.
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Captain Moustache
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Psiri
Armageddon however, just plain overpowered. Deals a ridiculous ammount of DPS which it can deliver across a great span of distance, looks good and it's cheap as hell too.
If you think the Armageddon looks good - wait till I unzip my pants. 
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Duke Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Regat Kozovv
Basically, you can sit in one place with a nigh-impenetrable tank spamming missiles out to 80km. But you won't be doing much else.
And that's a bad thing?
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Fobiah
Altruism. Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Captain Moustache
Originally by: Psiri
Armageddon however, just plain overpowered. Deals a ridiculous ammount of DPS which it can deliver across a great span of distance, looks good and it's cheap as hell too.
If you think the Armageddon looks good - wait till I unzip my pants. 
................................................................................. Will you go out with me? Circle one: Yes No Maybe
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AstroPhobic
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:39:00 -
[8]
Blasters need tracking autos need falloff artillery needs alpha missiles need explosion radius fix rockets
yeah that's about good
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Peder Skram
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Posted - 2009.07.10 22:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Duke Starbuckington
Originally by: Regat Kozovv
Basically, you can sit in one place with a nigh-impenetrable tank spamming missiles out to 80km. But you won't be doing much else.
And that's a bad thing?
since you wont kill anything that way (in pvp) - Yes, yes it is a bad thing.
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Duke Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.07.10 22:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Peder Skram
Originally by: Duke Starbuckington
Originally by: Regat Kozovv
Basically, you can sit in one place with a nigh-impenetrable tank spamming missiles out to 80km. But you won't be doing much else.
And that's a bad thing?
since you wont kill anything that way (in pvp) - Yes, yes it is a bad thing.
Not solo you won't, but thats why the HML drake is a gang ship.
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Peder Skram
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Posted - 2009.07.10 22:57:00 -
[11]
ok, im clearly wrong. Please fly drakes in pvp |

Duke Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.07.10 23:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Peder Skram ok, im clearly wrong. Please fly drakes in pvp
Yes you are wrong.
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Ikaret Iookil
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Posted - 2009.07.10 23:07:00 -
[13]
drake are great for pvp, never primary and do nice damage over time. what more do you want in a gang?
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Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2009.07.10 23:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Blasters need tracking autos need falloff artillery needs alpha missiles need explosion radius fix rockets
yeah that's about good
BECAUSE OF SCORCH!!!
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Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.07.10 23:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ikaret Iookil drake are great for pvp, never primary and do nice damage over time. what more do you want in a gang?
Only thing Drake has is tank. If I was running a gang the only thing I would want a drake for was to bait. A Harbinger/Hurricane do better DPS and the Harbinger can snipe from similar ranges with instant and superiour DPS.
If you fit the drake full gank with HAMs it will still be outdone vs. a full gank Brutix by miles or outdone with a full gank Harbinger by a fair bit as well.
Only ship a drake can outdo in terms of damage is the Myrmidon and even then that is assuming it is a well tanked Myrmidon with something other than guns in the highs, as a full gank Myrmidon is still better by a few points than the Drake.
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Caldari Corporation 12345 Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.07.10 23:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Only thing Drake has is tank. If I was running a gang the only thing I would want a drake for was to bait. A Harbinger/Hurricane do better DPS and the Harbinger can snipe from similar ranges with instant and superiour DPS.
If you fit the drake full gank with HAMs it will still be outdone vs. a full gank Brutix by miles or outdone with a full gank Harbinger by a fair bit as well.
Only ship a drake can outdo in terms of damage is the Myrmidon and even then that is assuming it is a well tanked Myrmidon with something other than guns in the highs, as a full gank Myrmidon is still better by a few points than the Drake.
learn to drake  ______
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Duke Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.07.10 23:36:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Duke Starbuckington on 10/07/2009 23:36:22
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Originally by: Ikaret Iookil drake are great for pvp, never primary and do nice damage over time. what more do you want in a gang?
Only thing Drake has is tank. If I was running a gang the only thing I would want a drake for was to bait. A Harbinger/Hurricane do better DPS and the Harbinger can snipe from similar ranges with instant and superiour DPS.
If you fit the drake full gank with HAMs it will still be outdone vs. a full gank Brutix by miles or outdone with a full gank Harbinger by a fair bit as well.
Only ship a drake can outdo in terms of damage is the Myrmidon and even then that is assuming it is a well tanked Myrmidon with something other than guns in the highs, as a full gank Myrmidon is still better by a few points than the Drake.
Again you people are still looking at "loldps", the Brutix is actually terrible, it has to slowboat over to the target because of it's stupid blasters. A HML fleet drake will be able to hit across most of the field from the go. And of course full gank ships will out damage it, but the drake still manages to keep a very strong tank.
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El Smol
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Posted - 2009.07.11 00:20:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Only thing Drake has is tank. If I was running a gang the only thing I would want a drake for was to bait. A Harbinger/Hurricane do better DPS and the Harbinger can snipe from similar ranges with instant and superiour DPS.
If you fit the drake full gank with HAMs it will still be outdone vs. a full gank Brutix by miles or outdone with a full gank Harbinger by a fair bit as well.
Only ship a drake can outdo in terms of damage is the Myrmidon and even then that is assuming it is a well tanked Myrmidon with something other than guns in the highs, as a full gank Myrmidon is still better by a few points than the Drake.
learn to drake 
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.07.11 00:22:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/07/2009 00:23:34 Drake has a stupidly overpowered tank. Regen tank won't drop below 95% shields against gate guns, and takes the cap of only two active hardeners to do it.
edit: okay maybe 80% if you're the only one there. 95% if there's someone else to absorb the fire once in awhile.
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Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.07.11 01:49:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 11/07/2009 01:50:40
Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Edited by: Duke Starbuckington on 10/07/2009 23:36:22
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Originally by: Ikaret Iookil drake are great for pvp, never primary and do nice damage over time. what more do you want in a gang?
Only thing Drake has is tank. If I was running a gang the only thing I would want a drake for was to bait. A Harbinger/Hurricane do better DPS and the Harbinger can snipe from similar ranges with instant and superiour DPS.
If you fit the drake full gank with HAMs it will still be outdone vs. a full gank Brutix by miles or outdone with a full gank Harbinger by a fair bit as well.
Only ship a drake can outdo in terms of damage is the Myrmidon and even then that is assuming it is a well tanked Myrmidon with something other than guns in the highs, as a full gank Myrmidon is still better by a few points than the Drake.
Again you people are still looking at "loldps", the Brutix is actually terrible, it has to slowboat over to the target because of it's stupid blasters. A HML fleet drake will be able to hit across most of the field from the go. And of course full gank ships will out damage it, but the drake still manages to keep a very strong tank.
Did you just say fleet drake? Well my beam Harbinger can outdo the DPS and it does it instantly from the same or greater range. If we are comparing gank fits then the HAM Drake loses to the ion blasting shield brutix (816 DPS with 50k EHP, compared to similar EHP and 30% less DPS from the Drake). You cannot compare a HML Drake designed to spew from range to a blaster boat meant to get up close, you have to compare the HML Drake to another sniper (and they are all better).
EDIT: I am going to throw down a Harbinger sniping fit and a Brutix ganking fit, and you tell me if your Drake can do either better. Only thing the Drake does better than the other BCs is tank, and that only matters on low-sec gatecamps IMO unless you plan to solo with your Drake (lol).
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Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.07.11 02:05:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 11/07/2009 02:15:15 Edited by: Asuka Smith on 11/07/2009 02:14:02 [Brutix, Ion Blasters] (Add in x2 EM x1 Thermal resistance rigs and drop the invuln for a scrambler for a loss of only ~2k EHP and you get a tackle) Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Hammerhead II x5
855 DPS, 50k EHP.
[Drake, HAM] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Scrambler II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile
Warrior II x5
450 DPS 59k EHP
I cannot think of a ship where that 20km range difference would matter. If you can close to 20 you can close to 1. However it does fit a tackle so I will give it that, although you have to be fighting BC/BS to get full damage unless your gang can target paint.
[Harbinger, Far] Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Co-Processor II Tracking Enhancer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Warden II x2
361 DPS @ 70k Optimal, 43k EHP
[Drake, Heavy Missiles] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Warden II x1
340 DPS @ 80km, 78k EHP.
The 10KM of range barely matters IMO, again if you can hold them at 80 you can hold them at 70. The DPS is crappier, takes time to show up (so it is only going to be any good in a prolonged fight). Only redeeming quality is the tank, which is of course excellent.
If I was gatecamping in lowsec Drake would be my choice. If I was doing anything else and had the skills to fly Gallente or Amarr I would.
(I left out the Hurricane because it is a crappy sniper and is IMO evenly matched with the HAM drake leaning towards the HAM drake as better) |

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.11 02:22:00 -
[22]
Those are terrible fits. Learn how to fit a Drake, then try again.
Also: Originally by: Asuka If you can close to 20 you can close to 1.
WTB. Asuka's Magical Teleportation Device. 
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.07.11 02:56:00 -
[23]
Oh my, dear god. I understood it like a year ago when the concept of buffer tanked HAM drakes was still quite new (relatively), but now? Theres's NO excuse and honestly anyone who dismisses the Drake as an excellent PvP ship (although I wouldn't say its overpowered) just shows that he or she has not insight to EVE PvP whatsoever.
Just stop posting, please.
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Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.07.11 03:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gypsio III Those are terrible fits. Learn how to fit a Drake, then try again.
Also: Originally by: Asuka If you can close to 20 you can close to 1.
WTB. Asuka's Magical Teleportation Device. 
Well put it on the line and post your better fits by all means. And what I mean by closing the distance is that if a 1km/s BC can get to 20km from a target it can get the rest of the way too because the target is either slower than you are, or it is not moving thanks to your gang.
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Solid Prefekt
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.07.11 03:36:00 -
[25]
Eve balanced. . .not.
Amarr has been buffed more times then a five dollah hooker gets clients in a day. Both direct and indirect (tracking buff, resists buff, mwd cap reduction, introduction of missiles turrts slots that use less cap, grouping of guns coupled with instant crystal changing, the list goes on and on). A long time ago (you noobs won't remember this) the Amarr had MAJOR cap issues. That was their huge drawback. That ain't so anymore. That Amarr sucked was the only thing everyone in Eve could agree on.
Now they got the best T2 cruisers, best BS, best caps, great frigs, did I miss something. Or did I just cover the majority of what people fly in PVP.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.11 06:00:00 -
[26]
Asuka replace the hams on that drake to Kinetic terror rage and the drones to hobgoblins and it shoots 613 dps, (561 with faction, which will do full damage on cruisers, provided they aren't going super fast)
I really don't know why you would want to be shooting em hams on a drake.  (well maybe when killing ratters in serp/gur space)
and yes the drake is pretty good close range.
but they go down pretty fast anyways. unless you are trying to 1v1 it in another bc, and then well, what were you thinking? although wouldn't be too surprised if it lost to another bc. but going off of 2 ideal eft fits and using that to decided what to engage doesn't always work out.
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House
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Posted - 2009.07.11 08:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Asuka Smith Edited by: Asuka Smith on 11/07/2009 03:43:27 [Brutix, Ion Blasters] (Add in x2 EM x1 Thermal resistance rigs and drop the invuln for a scrambler for a loss of only ~2k EHP and you get a tackle) Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Hammerhead II x5
855 DPS, 50k EHP.
[Drake, HAM] (I got the updated fit from someone else, I am putting these parentheses in here so you all know that my mids were not nearly as good) Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile Small Nosferatu II
Warrior II x5
450 DPS 63k EHP
I cannot think of a ship where that 20km range difference would matter. If you can close to 20 you can close to 1. However it does fit a tackle so I will give it that, although you have to be fighting BC/BS to get full damage unless your gang can target paint.
[Harbinger, Far] Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Co-Processor II Tracking Enhancer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Warden II x2
361 DPS @ 70k Optimal, 43k EHP
[Drake, Heavy Missiles] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Warden II x1
340 DPS @ 80km, 78k EHP.
The 10KM of range barely matters IMO, again if you can hold them at 80 you can hold them at 70. The DPS is crappier, takes time to show up (so it is only going to be any good in a prolonged fight). Only redeeming quality is the tank, which is of course excellent.
If I was gatecamping in lowsec Drake would be my choice. If I was doing anything else and had the skills to fly Gallente or Amarr I would.
(I left out the Hurricane because it is a crappy sniper and is IMO evenly matched with the HAM drake leaning towards the HAM drake as better)
well done....
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House
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Posted - 2009.07.11 08:43:00 -
[28]
Edited by: K1RTH G3RS3N on 11/07/2009 08:43:43
Originally by: Hait Or is it..
I would be intersted in hearing your opinions of which ships you think break the balance and why.
I'll start us off then - the Drake
No other battlecruiser has such a hard tank and can do as much damage as the Drake. If you were to sign up to this game - get in a drake .. huzzah lvl3's in a month. Gate guns - no problem.
Your turn.
i cant beat my friends drake in my harbinger, but he cant hold me there either. seems very balanced to me.
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House
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Posted - 2009.07.11 08:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Originally by: Gypsio III Those are terrible fits. Learn how to fit a Drake, then try again.
Also: Originally by: Asuka If you can close to 20 you can close to 1.
WTB. Asuka's Magical Teleportation Device. 
Well put it on the line and post your better fits by all means.
tried and proven drake by many people...
7x heavies 3x lse, 2x invul, warp disrupter 2x bcu, 2x spr 3x core defence field purgers 5x hobbies
going all t2 (except the rigs ofcourse), think it needs a cpu implant too, my friend seems to pull it off though.
he gets an even 500 over 500 tank and damage or there abouts
orrr, how about
harb with 5 hammers 7 heavy pulse 2x lse, disrupter, mwd 3x heat sink, dcu, odi, inertial stab anti em therm and kin rigs some cheap hardwirings and youre doing 800dps in a battlecruiser that does 1.2k/s
all above is non-heat figures too.
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.07.11 09:17:00 -
[30]
Actually game is more balanced today than it was years ago. Just think of all the achuras in myrmidons for example. Now gallente suck compared to what they were in 2007 for small scale fights, but they still aren't as bad as most amarr ships were then (remember the cpuless unfitable geddon, the laser lolcrilege, the 4-gun zealot of zomfg450dps, the bs-sized mining barge that was apoc etc etc).
Greatest problem with amarr arose from the resist change on EM. 50%, while still the highest default armor resist, is simply not enough to compensate for the fact amarr will start doing it's damage earlier. 60% as it used to be made things much different. It also made kinetic/thermal combination on gallente make more sense, with 50% EM resist kinetic and thermal ends up being the generally worst possible damage combo when taking into account t2 ships.
Apart from that, I wouldn't say any amarr ships are actually overpowered. However, there are literally no bad amarr ships nowadays. Meaning while other races have some truly crappy options, amarr are all going to work very well in their specific roles. Except of t1 cruisers that are awful, but who gives a damn about that. I'd say pilgrim is also essentially a bad ship for all it's "what if" pros, but who gives a damn about that too tbh when everything else is good.
As for drake, there is a no more useless ship in pvp than the passive drake. It serves close to no purpose whatsoever. But it's quite apparent people are giving up on the concept, and I generally only find PVEers and newbies fit SPRs in lows. Other than this, a light buffer drake with mwd, point or scram, web, bcus + dc in lows and whatever missiles in highs - depending on it's role and environment - will be a great ship, and even with only 3 slot tank + dc will still outtank other battlecruisers that go for 2 or 3 dmg mods. I might argue that harbinger is useless along same lines because if I dual rep it it's utter trash, but then it's my fault I don't know how to fit a ship I guess.
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