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Phaige Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.13 19:26:00 - [31] Edited by: Phaige on 13/07/2009 19:26:45 Carebear is such a subjective term... Personaly, people are carebearing when they use alts to get things done. Like scouting or hauling for them. Either A) grow a pair and do it yourself B) make some friends, it is an MMO after all. Everyone is a carebear from a certain point of view. ----------------------------------------------- You may be a King or a little Street Sweeper, but sooner or later you dance wi' de' Reaper!
Holy Lowlander Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.07.13 20:19:00 - [32] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: TimMc yes if you never pvp and furiously avoid it. Ah, but didn't the "'ardcoooor!" EVE players say that EVERYTHING is PVP In any case; I'm not a carebear, i once shot stuff. you allmost killed my industrial ship with your industrial ship , you are an ebwil piwate ! luckily I neuted the crap out of you so you stopped firing =D _______________ Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Le Sabre Gallente The Dead Canary Mining Corporation Legion of Honor	Posted - 2009.07.13 20:34:00 - [33] Edited by: Le Sabre on 13/07/2009 20:34:23 Imho: Carebear = coined by Pilots who worry so much about everyone else' game-play habits that they have to label them with daft names. To answer the ops question, mission running isn't a 'carebear' activity in itself, you need a bunch of people to whine about the people who do missions and then it suddenly becomes a 'carebear' activity.
Kurzhan Suvok Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.13 23:51:00 - [34] Edited by: Kurzhan Suvok on 13/07/2009 23:52:02 Edited by: Kurzhan Suvok on 13/07/2009 23:51:14 I find it amusing that people these days tend to use the term 'care bear' as a derogatory term when in actuality the origin of the term in relation to MMORPGs (and online gaming in general) was coined by a role-player to differentiate one group of role-players from another and later used as part of a manifesto designed to grief PvPers. A long story short, care bears would taunt PvPers into wasting time killing them for no reward (no crying, no loot, and in those days of UO stat penalties were given to PKs). It would be the equivalent here of getting pirates to suicide gank your fully insured ship when you were carrying no cargo and no modules and the ganker not getting any insurance payout for his own ship (and being podded by CONCORD for the extra cherry on top). The 'Care Bear Movement' actually led to the eventual disbandment of a major PvP guild. While the term 'Care Bear' may have had some limited use in the vocabulary of people in general as being 'touchy-feely' it was Jonathan Hanna's first use of it on the Crossroads of Brittania forums and 'Operation Care Bear' that first introduced the MMORPG community to the term. A few links for reference for those curious: http://listlibrary.net/mud-dev/2002/08/005k85wW http://web.archive.org/web/20010724214639/http://www.dweller.com/vv/lib_bear.htm (Archived as the UO guilds involved have long since disbanded.)
Lagruna Zegata	Posted - 2009.07.14 00:22:00 - [35] Not directly related to this topic, but given the way the ground rules of EVE are set up, "carebears" are a necessary evil. Why? There are four main ways ISK is introduced into the money supply: a) Mission rewards b) NPC pirate bounties c) Selling Overseer items (from complexes), Sleeper libraries, trade goods, etc. to 365-day NPC buy orders d) Insurance Fraud ISK gets drained from the game by: a) BPO's b) Clone and manufacturing/invention/research fees c) Skill books bought from NPC's d) Control towers, nanite paste, other miscellaneous items bought from NPC's e) Fines when caught with contraband (maybe some others I can't think of right now) Without constant "carebear-ism", EVE's economy would shrink steadily and drastically. ~Lagruna Zegata
Rawrior Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.14 10:09:00 - [36] Originally by: Lagruna Zegata Not directly related to this topic, but given the way the ground rules of EVE are set up, "carebears" are a necessary evil. Why? There are four main ways ISK is introduced into the money supply: a) Mission rewards b) NPC pirate bounties c) Selling Overseer items (from complexes), Sleeper libraries, trade goods, etc. to 365-day NPC buy orders d) Insurance Fraud ISK gets drained from the game by: a) BPO's b) Clone and manufacturing/invention/research fees c) Skill books bought from NPC's d) Control towers, nanite paste, other miscellaneous items bought from NPC's e) Fines when caught with contraband (maybe some others I can't think of right now) Without constant "carebear-ism", EVE's economy would shrink steadily and drastically. ~Lagruna Zegata you're forgeting the 50-someodd% of items get destroyed when someone blows your ship up Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Neamus	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Kurzhan Suvok Edited by: Kurzhan Suvok on 13/07/2009 23:52:02 Edited by: Kurzhan Suvok on 13/07/2009 23:51:14 I find it amusing that people these days tend to use the term 'care bear' as a derogatory term when in actuality the origin of the term in relation to MMORPGs (and online gaming in general) was coined by a role-player to differentiate one group of role-players from another and later used as part of a manifesto designed to grief PvPers. A long story short, care bears would taunt PvPers into wasting time killing them for no reward (no crying, no loot, and in those days of UO stat penalties were given to PKs). It would be the equivalent here of getting pirates to suicide gank your fully insured ship when you were carrying no cargo and no modules and the ganker not getting any insurance payout for his own ship (and being podded by CONCORD for the extra cherry on top). The 'Care Bear Movement' actually led to the eventual disbandment of a major PvP guild. While the term 'Care Bear' may have had some limited use in the vocabulary of people in general as being 'touchy-feely' it was Jonathan Hanna's first use of it on the Crossroads of Brittania forums and 'Operation Care Bear' that first introduced the MMORPG community to the term. A few links for reference for those curious: http://listlibrary.net/mud-dev/2002/08/005k85wW http://web.archive.org/web/20010724214639/http://www.dweller.com/vv/lib_bear.htm (Archived as the UO guilds involved have long since disbanded.) I shall label you Nerdbear. Arise Sir Nerdbear.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:17:00 - [38] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 14/07/2009 11:17:24 Originally by: Holy Lowlander Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: TimMc yes if you never pvp and furiously avoid it. Ah, but didn't the "'ardcoooor!" EVE players say that EVERYTHING is PVP In any case; I'm not a carebear, i once shot stuff. you allmost killed my industrial ship with your industrial ship , you are an ebwil piwate ! luckily I neuted the crap out of you so you stopped firing =D Hey, it was my first fight with my battle bestower! The mrk II is a hauling machine of death! As we remember from a certain nighthawk running away from it. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Lagruna Zegata	Posted - 2009.07.14 11:47:00 - [39] Rawrior, You're absolutely right that popping a ship and disintegrating mods destroys "value", but through some quirk of insurance this usually increases the ISK supply since the ISK paid for mods and ships already went to another player and the ISK stays in the money supply. My best take on ships being popped is that it fosters some inflation in mineral and ship prices (same or increasing ISK supply chasing fewer goods on a micro scale). The high prices of goods in 0.0 would be a good example of this. In a real sense, if it weren't for PvP....miners and industrialists would have their profit margins squeezed. (As an aside, characters thrown into biomass without giving money away, buying stuff from LP stores, or even those little "spam" CPSA charges for mail and convos are also an ISK drain.) ~LZ
SwordKnight	Posted - 2009.07.14 12:14:00 - [40] Well a no PvP button would be nice!

Amerilia	Posted - 2009.07.14 13:06:00 - [41] Edited by: Amerilia on 14/07/2009 13:07:15 Originally by: SwordKnight Well a no PvP button would be nice! Even as a carebear, I have to say NO to this. It is one of the things that make EVE special to me, in other games I have to approve that someone may interact with me, trade, fight, whatever. In EVE there is no way to get around interaction with other players, I lost some hundred Million ISK to suicide ganks in hi sec, but it adds some special flavor. Also, having to approve interaction is what makes all these games effectively single player games.
DrKuLa	Posted - 2009.07.14 15:36:00 - [42] Edited by: DrKuLa on 14/07/2009 15:39:07 Originally by: Amerilia Edited by: Amerilia on 14/07/2009 13:07:15 I lost some hundred Million ISK to suicide ganks in hi sec, but it adds some special flavor. high secs make life interesting these days isn't it? Now it is much safer mining in 0.0 than on high secs since most of uber PVPers went back to high sec coz were bored as hell on peaceful 0.0 space
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:38:00 - [43] Edited by: Kessiaan on 14/07/2009 16:38:17 Your ship explodes. You: A) Laugh B) Shrug C) NERDRAGE If you answered C, you're a carebear.
Amerilia	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:39:00 - [44] Originally by: Kessiaan Edited by: Kessiaan on 14/07/2009 16:38:17 Your ship explodes. You: A) Laugh B) Shrug C) NERDRAGE If you answered C, you're a carebear. So I am not a carebear after all?
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Amerilia So I am not a carebear after all? I'm afraid not. From your earlier comments I can tell you're already well on your way the dark side! Someday you'll think, "Hey, if I join this corp / alliance / intel channel, I can mission and explore out here in peace!" And you'll be off being a happy fakebear, then you'll see "Hey! <insert corp here> is in <insert nearby system here>! X up noobs!" And then you'll think, "Hey, I got tons of money, what the hell." And the rest will be history. All because you dared to think that EvE does not revolve around you! That's the true measure of a carebear, not any specific thing they do.
Amerilia	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Kessiaan Originally by: Amerilia So I am not a carebear after all? I'm afraid not. From your earlier comments I can tell you're already well on your way the dark side! Someday you'll think, "Hey, if I join this corp / alliance / intel channel, I can mission and explore out here in peace!" And you'll be off being a happy fakebear, then you'll see "Hey! <insert corp here> is in <insert nearby system here>! X up noobs!" And then you'll think, "Hey, I got tons of money, what the hell." And the rest will be history. All because you dared to think that EvE does not revolve around you! That's the true measure of a carebear, not any specific thing they do. First, I dont have tons of money, only Assets, since I cant let money rot. And I am trying to get the corp I am CEO of into wormhole operations, but the members dont move an inch... yet.
Sir Muffoon Carried Hate	Posted - 2009.07.14 17:04:00 - [47] Originally by: Rawrior you're forgeting the 50-someodd% of items get destroyed when someone blows your ship up That doesn't remove isk, that removes items.
Amerilia	Posted - 2009.07.14 17:12:00 - [48] Originally by: Sir Muffoon Originally by: Rawrior you're forgeting the 50-someodd% of items get destroyed when someone blows your ship up That doesn't remove isk, that removes items. Well he forgot all the Corp/Alliance ISK sinks for example
Ameelia Brightstarr	Posted - 2009.07.22 15:10:00 - [49] Originally by: Kessiaan Edited by: Kessiaan on 14/07/2009 16:38:17 Your ship explodes. You: A) Laugh B) Shrug C) NERDRAGE If you answered C, you're a carebear. In my experience, PvPers generally get more upset and spout crap in local more than mining/indy pilots (especially the macros).
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.07.22 16:07:00 - [50] Originally by: Jacob Mei What about mining, ninja salvaging, contract running, datacore mining and sitting in the station picking your nose? Mining is competetive, and therefore PvP. Ninja salvaging is competetive, and therefore PvP. Contract running is competetive, and therefore PvP. Datacore mining is… well, close, but unless you just collect them for no reason, you'll want to use them for a PvP activity (usually trading). Picking your nose is AFK and therefore mu. Originally by: FlyinS Originally by: Malcanis Missioning is about the only non-PvP activity there is. In fact that's why a lot of people (including me) have a problem with it. If it's non-pvp which by definition isn't affecting another player-character, why does it bother anyone? Because it does have rather far-reaching effects on the game world, and offers no way of countering those effects. It offers a completely non-competetive means of summoning stuff out of thin air. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki

Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.07.22 16:10:00 - [51] Actually, slight correction Originally by: Lagruna Zegata d) Insurance No fraud is required — losing a ship is always an ISK-generating activity. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kat Bandeis Caldari Virtual Rock Industries	Posted - 2009.07.22 16:10:00 - [52] So, is being a carebear toon-based, or about the human being behind the keyboard? OK, that's probably too deep for the "elite" peeveepee'ers out there, so how about this: 1) Been to null sec; even took part in some fights there 2) Caldari, but most others are Minni and Amarr 3) Been head-to-head in PVP, lost some, some ran, ran from some, and got killed some 4) I mission (boring as it is) 5) Build my own ships for PVP & Exploration (gasp) 6) Enjoy invention and manufacturing (gasp) 7) Not ***** enough to gatecamp 8) Not pathetic enough to station camp Carebear or not?
Mephesto Nizal Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.07.22 16:31:00 - [53] Carebears are pirates with safe industry alts ;)
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.07.22 16:34:00 - [54] Originally by: Kat Bandeis So, is being a carebear toon-based, or about the human being behind the keyboard? All about the person. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Napolean Blownapart	Posted - 2009.07.22 17:15:00 - [55] I suppose that the people constantly running L4s in high-sec with their officer-fitted Golems could be considered carebears, but a lot of PvPers do missions just to keep up with their losses. Others do ratting in 0.0 or have industry/mining alts. Everyone needs money, and unless you get extremely lucky in PvP or buy PLEXes, even the most hardcore anti-carebears have to do 'carebear' activities to survive. I'm sure there are guys in low-sec living hand-to-mouth or in 0.0 who have everything provided to them by their corp but for the vast majority this is true.
Passageway Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.22 18:48:00 - [56] Originally by: Lagruna Zegata There are four main ways ISK is introduced into the money supply: a) Mission rewards b) NPC pirate bounties c) Selling Overseer items (from complexes), Sleeper libraries, trade goods, etc. to 365-day NPC buy orders d) Insurance Fraud e) mining? f) moon mat income? g) datacores?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.22 18:52:00 - [57] Originally by: Passageway Originally by: Lagruna Zegata There are four main ways ISK is introduced into the money supply: a) Mission rewards b) NPC pirate bounties c) Selling Overseer items (from complexes), Sleeper libraries, trade goods, etc. to 365-day NPC buy orders d) Insurance Fraud e) mining? f) moon mat income? g) datacores? None of those 3 introduce new ISK. They create new materials which can be sold for existing ISK.
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2009.07.22 22:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Ephemeron I generally consider myself a pvper However, sometimes I go farming rats in 0.0 belts, and when I do that, I can say "I'm going to carebear for a bit" So, I'd say that while you are running missions, you are carebearing, even if temporarily, and thus, in that time, you are a carebear The most obviously correct and intelligent answer on the thread. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Leaving Eve Boo Hoo Federation	Posted - 2009.07.22 23:46:00 - [59] Originally by: Napolean Blownapart P****s this is censored?
Tellenta Gallente Invicta. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.07.22 23:53:00 - [60] Originally by: Rawrior Quickly, is a mission runner considered a carebear? I am indeed a horrid carebear. Please don't tell danneh



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